Going To Bat For Trees At Woodman Field

Save the trees!

"murder" oy vey. The shrieking, the shrieking!

Please let me know when people start chaining themsleves to trees.

Does ROC plan to appear with a chain cutter???

I suppose the removal of those lovely trees is designed to harmonize the neighborhood with the Crisco corner, huh?

Massacre of the Maples!

I believe they are mostly oaks, Aussie.

Perhaps,
"Croaking the oaks"

Oh Goody !! More lumber source for more McMansions !! ..must ..have...food

Offing of the Oaks!

How can Montclair Trees be a grass roots organization? Shouldn't it be "tree roots"?

Personally, I like trees better than baseball diamonds.

No Byron, I don't necessarily think the trees should be cut down, but neither would I call it "murder". And the "small" part of my character would enjoy the "Street theater" of grown adults in the midst of of a tree-hugging tantrum, so I will be there, should there be a "confrontation".

As bad_patty says those are "our" trees and I suppose "we" get to decide their disposition.

There seems to be a lot of room, so I am not sure why they need to be cut down.

Maybe they can call the new baseball complex "Field of Stumps".

Perhaps we should organize the little league kids to come out for a counter demonstration. After all, if the baseball field doesn't get expanded, the kids won't have a place to play, and they'll turn to drugs and drink and ruin, and violent crime and... lives will lost! Why, that's tantamount to MURDER!!!!!!!

walleroo, I'd suggest cardboard coffins, draped with flags emblazoned with the new(ish) Montclair logo.

Line them all up (by the score) and chant "No Blood for Nimbyism".

Maybe the town can make and sell special edition baseball bats out of the felled trees. They are looking for new revenue streams, right?

Aussie,

Good idea but I doubt such an idea would get through carya's "Sustainable Preservation of Dead Tree and Sawdust Committee".

walleroo, if you think little leaguers or any other non-high school team will be allowed anywhere near those fields, you don't know Montclair athletic field rules.

Bean,

Does the highschool team do all their practicing there currently?

Can I have Mazie handcuff me to a tree...I've been a bad boy

You know wallerro, they don't have a baseball field at Glenfield Middle School, I think that should be your line of attack.

ROC, I don't have any knowledge as to where the high school teams currently practice. I do know, however, that the town and traveling teams for all sports were never allowed to use the high school fields.

Yes, but perhaps they are using other facilities which might therefore be "freed-up"?

"Perhaps we should organize the little league kids to come out for a counter demonstration."

If you've been following the Watercooler discussion, you'd know that a majority of the baseball parents involved are said to oppose the plan. For a different angle on the site check out:

http://ecorealty.blogspot.com/

"Don't it always seem to go that they don't know what they got till its gone! paved paradise and put a parking lot"
Arbor Day is April 28th.

town-league baseball practices and plays at woodman and fortunato.

Cobra football plays at woodman

Montclair United Soccer plays at fortunato

RoC,
Yes those are our trees (collectively)- show up and be counted. I'm sure that all would appreciate your opinion - in person of course.

Ice,
Wouldn't a hair-shirt or flagellation suit you better. I think that Mazie could be arrested for handcuffing you to town property- not sure what the charge would be.

I wish I could make it to understand it better. Why replace the trees with a fence. Are we in a hurry to look like Newark? There must be a better way.

mtc- things must have eased up. When my sons were playing, we were allowed to use Fortunato once in an emergency situation for a Montclair United game. It started raining lightly toward the end of the game and we were told to leave the field or we would ruin it. We were never allowed to use Woodman field.

"If you chop it down they will come.."

Field of Stumps.

"You know wallerro, they don't have a baseball field at Glenfield Middle School, I think that should be your line of attack."

As I recall, Glenfield Park has at least one baseball field. According to the county website, Glenfield Park
DISTINGUISHING FEATURES
. Large community center.
. Football field.
. Field hockey.
. Softball fields.
. Tennis Courts.
. Lighted basketball courts.
. Large playground & fitness court.
. Glenfield Middle School, adjacent to the park, uses it for many of their programs.
. Toney's Brook flows through the glen.

http://www.co.essex.nj.us/

(pity that all human fetuses don't get the "standing" of brainless pieces of wood in this town.)

BP,
I will show up at the protest wearing a troll hair shirt...ouch, that's itchy

ROC-- isn't it about time you were buying a one-way ticket to South Dakota?

"brainless pieces of wood"

ROC: Are you referring to the trees or to the developers we love to hate so much?

Ice,

You'll look marvelous!

Glenfield uses it? I didn't know that. I thought the kids were not allowed to leave the school at all-- but maybe that just applies to recess.

"...just applies to recess."

And runs to the hardware store.

Woodman Field currently has a baseball field. It needs "upgrading." Instead of upgrading the BOE is planning on moving it to the edge of the property. It still won't be the ideal field, but it will be better.

It might cost $200,000 to $300,000 to upgrade. It WILL cost $1.2MM plus to move. And, of course, all the trees will be cut in the move. Then there's the issue of cost over-runs and other unanticipated "gliches" you can be sure of!

Free the trees!

Will there be "stands"? Can we buy a hot dog and a coke? (perhaps "Sangria"?) Any renderings or plans we can view online?

Dear ROC,

I couldn't resist staying out of this .... you know, sometimes you make such good sense! I wish you could just tone down the satire a bit.

Well, I did attend a Board presentation and they did give out renderings. One of the folk in the audience, trained in the ways of the McMansions and the Sienna, quickly calculated that the "saplings" were 30" tall and all agreed the renderings were useless.

GREAT questions on the hot dog stands, etc. I have to say I don't know, but I do think the field house modifications have all sorts of "amenities." Remember the new school with the pool and the viewing areas, etc.? I do think the new ball field will have a dug out, though. Thanks for bringing the questions up. I'll try and get the drawings, etc. and post them!

"If you've been following the Watercooler discussion, you'd know that a majority of the baseball parents involved are said to oppose the plan." (emphasis added)

And I say there is a Santa Claus! But also, it's not true, unfortunately (sorry, kids).

also = alas

Glenfield, by the way, has a very nice baseball field. I think it might even have two.

thanks carya. I'd like to see them. I must admit (and sorry for arboreal ramifications) this thread is giving me spring fever!

p.s.

satire?

My troll shirt is giving me a rash.

Only God can make a tree,,,tree-huggers unite

walleroo,

Yes they "are said" to oppose the plan.

Do you have a way of surveying all those that live in the town so that we can see exactly where everyone stands?

Ice,
Style your toes- it'll take your mind off the rash.

"Glenfield uses it? I didn't know that. I thought the kids were not allowed to leave the school at all-- but maybe that just applies to recess."

That's what the Essex County Web site says.
My kids have been out of Glenfield for many years, but I'll ask my nephew or my neighbor the next time that I see one of them.

But I know that I saw a baseball field there. Don't know where ROC finds his facts.

I would think the onus on surveying the town's baseball parents would be on those who claim to know how they think. I make no such claim, though I would bet my paycheck that the trees wouldn't win.

Besides, you can't gauge public opinion on the watercooler, it's a censored forum.

"Don't know where ROC finds his facts."

Well bit, it was really more of a joke, I have no idea about the school's facilities as I have never been to the school in question. It was a comment on the recent problems at the school and a "tie-in" for walleroo's protest.

Sorry to have so confused you. Though I encourge you to contiune your research.

RoC,

We haven't been discussing Santa on the Watercooler.

I did ask him for his opinion and he's in favor of the trees.

Really!

badd, you mean walleroo...

But I doubt you were corresponding with Santa on the WC. He'd be denied voice by the "watchers-out for the public good" because he does not have enough of a "Montclair connection."

If refreshment stands are to be built, will Steve Plofker be getting all the hot dog concession rights ?

I'm sorry, but in my infinite geographic naivete, I haven't a clue as to where the field in question lies.

Where the heck is it?

Maybe that's the problem -- nobody knows where the field is because those pesky trees block the view.

Good one, appletony! Is your screen name after a street in Glen Ridge?

It's at the corner of imemine lane and solboutme drive.

ROC, repeat after me:

It's all about the trees
It's all about the trees
It's all about the trees

Don't get me wrong, I love a good ol' tree as much as the next person, but I haven't seen this much chatter since I lived in San Francisco and Berkeley introduced the "No Fragrance Zones".

"'If you've been following the Watercooler discussion, you'd know that a majority of the baseball parents involved are said to oppose the plan.'

And I say there is a Santa Claus! But also, it's not true..."

This was part of Chris Swenson's comment in The Cooler:

"The proposal to renovate the field did not come from “the baseball
community”. We all wanted Woodman to be improved, the maintenance
has been horrible, the area behind home plate had become a dumping
ground, there were no bathrooms, etc. However, I can’t think of a
single person belonging to the Booster Club before this fall who
supported the BOE renovation plan which essentially has not changed
in 3 years. We have been against the plan from the beginning; that
was always our feedback when we were asked. We had proposed last
spring many improvements to the existing field, but not moving it
back toward Champlain Terrace.

Some the same ‘baseball fathers’ who now support the plan, opposed
it strongly last Spring. I was told the major reason that 3 or 4
switched and began supporting the plan this fall and advocating
others to support it was that they wanted to support the new
athletic director who was pushing this plan. Some of the support
for the plan was definitely genuine, but some had more to do with
the new AD firing a coach that a few of them wanted to change.

From my own talks and email with many baseball parents I believe
that those opposed to the BOE plan outnumber those in favor by
about 2 or 3 to 1. However, the majority really haven’t had a lot
of information one way or another.

I was not able to attend the Board meeting when the vote was taken
but I did email my reasons for opposing the plan to the BOE. Dr.
Alvarez and the Board are well aware that the plan did not have
unanimous support with the baseball folks and that there were some
strong objections to it. Support for or against the plan within the
baseball community was never a determining factor for its approval.
The BOE administrators responsible for all the field renovations
have been selling this hard for three years and this year they were
able to find a few baseball people who agree with them."

On a side note, a referral from Chris Swenson led to the end of a year-long search to find someone to replace our strap-hung gutters. So, he's somewhat of a legend in our household.

God bless you, Mr. Swenson. God bless!

Dog Mom,
I am a Montclair resident.

Gotcha. It's just that I was driving through GR the other day, and there's a street off Ridgewood called Appletony. No joke.

Cutting trees to play ball is definitely foul.

Dog Mom
I now understand why you say Chris Swenson is such a great guy. You obviously don’t see thing very clearly – the street in GR is Appleton not Appletony.

RoC,

No I meant you. I addressed the post to you. Why is it that you feel that you can tell me who I was addressing?

And yes Santa does have a very active Montclair Connection and is a very civil person.

Doesn't Santa come to visit your kids each year?

badd,

Well walleroo mentioned Santa, not I, in the thread. So I was just trying to facilitate clear communication.

"Why is it that you feel that you can tell me who I was addressing?"

Seems a bit overly aggressive, but "c'est la vie".

aggresive- no it was a question as to your tactics and behavior.

Are you feeling overly sensative tonight?

Mea Culpa re: Appleton. I thought it was a play on words and I've been dealing with children all day.

I love them, but they're great at brain scrambling.

However, I maintain my fanship of Mr. Swenson, as I owe my (affordable & well-installed) gutters to him.

Lighten up on a poor soul, shoeu. It's been a long day.

My "tactics and behavior" ?

badd, have you become a "BD" by any chance?

"overly sensative tonight?"

Maybe a little tingling in my foot, but I think it is asleep. So, no, I'd have to say no.

I just hope Mr. Swenson watches My Name is Earl. Thats all I have to say.

RoC,

You can only guess - my guess is that you're not on the Watercooler.

Why don't we get back to discussing whether the trees should live or die.

From the picture above they sure look like they'll be needed to protect those houses from baseballs.

I wonder, does Montclair's insurance cover those who will be hit by baseballs while sitting in their backyards or on their decks?

badd,

You are being so coy! I just checked, so yes, I see you are!

Now I know there is no way you will ever believe me but I didn't know and I just guessed.

I can usually tell. I have found that often BD's get a little snarky at any criticism of their domain out here on the other side of the iron curtain.

It must be so grating that anybody can say anything they want...

Anyway, back to the topic. I think, regarding the balls, I think that is the purpose of the fence which is mentioned.

"I just hope Mr. Swenson watches My Name is Earl. Thats all I have to say."

Well, at least his basement won't be leaking because of his well-installed gutters.

On topic, the fence tapers down from home plate, and the fence won't protect against the stray left field balls that land on Champlain Terrace. I guess it's just something that the neighbors will have to "live with."

On the other hand, the right field line is against the NJ Transit tracks. Whether NJ Transit is willing to "live with" that is anybody's guess.

By the way, my sense is that about a half dozen vocal baseball parents want the project, a dozen don't want the project, and the rest don't care.

what's the obsession with cutting down trees?

i never understood it

nothing like standing in the shade of a hot chain link fence on a summer's day. Yessiree.

there should be a rule if a tree is older than you, seniority rules and you can't cut it down.

RoC,

Yes, you are correct. I don't believe you, and I haven't "become" anything that I wasn't already!

As to the fence protecting against baseballs - per Cary's post, that isn't going to work.

There may be some kind of netting that can be put up. But then you need poles to support the netting ...more infrastructure to support and maintain.

Excuse the off topic remark.

ROC, do you realy think that Montclair was better off when the Montclair Times had a monopoly on news reporting?

The MT is not perfect, the MWC is not perfect, RFM is not perfect, Montclair Life and Leasure is not perfect, the Baristanet isn't even perfect, but taken together they give us a robust source of information on what's going on in this town.

Back to the topic. If the baseball parents don't want it and the neighbors don't want it, who wants it?

What does the Times have to do with anything?

I am highly critical of the Watecooler because, in my experience, it is censored and controlled speech. The censorship is biased, unfair, politically motivated and pervasive. One of the "rules" is that you can't discuss "the rules"!

You're welcome to it.

Of course, this is all just one man's opinion, which, out here, I am able to express!

Thanks, Woody, for fetching that post from the cooler. Swenson's own assessment --

"From my own talks and email with many baseball parents I believe
that those opposed to the BOE plan outnumber those in favor by
about 2 or 3 to 1. However, the majority really haven’t had a lot
of information one way or another."

-- is more qualified than you seemed to suggest.

Bitpusher, your reasoning is specious. You are saying, basically, that since nothing is perfect there's no point criticising anything. Which is rather silly.

The WC is particularly insidious because the BDs work very hard to maintain the surface fiction that the cooler is a vibrant forum for political discussion, and yet they will not allow disagreement with that fundamental assertion. In this way it bears a striking resemblance to the media apparatus of a totalitarian state, like Pravda was to the Soviet Kremlin or the People's Daily is are to China's Central Committee.

Bitpusher, ROC, et al.
Would someone please post the URL for the MWC, RFM and M Life and Leisure, so I might sample these other sources of information.

One of the attractive aspects of this site is ROC's defense of unfettered speech and his intolerance of sloppy reasoning.

Also, what or who is a "BD"?

Byron,

Barista has the links on the side bar.

MWC - Montclair Watercooler
a Yahoo group started and owned by Mary Krugman. It is "moderated" by "BD's" their own term for "Benevolent Dictators". You must apply for "membership" and your posts must be "approved" to be seen. Many topics are specifically disallowed, like discussion of what is permissible or any criticism of the "BD's".

RFM - "Radio Free Montclair" aka "Montclair Unmoderated"
A yahoo group started by either Jmo or Kevin Lee Allen (I forget which) which is unmoderated and anyone may join.

The others I don't know.

Actually "benevolent despot" may be the term.

(at any rate they are recognizable "out of doors" owing to their "pricklyness" whenever the "hive" is dissed in any way.)

Montclair Watercooler
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MtcWatercooler/

Montclair Unmoderated
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MontclairUnmoderated/

Montclair Life and Leasure
http://villageradio.com/

>> On topic, the fence tapers down from home plate, and the fence won't protect against the stray left field balls that land on Champlain Terrace. I guess it's just something that the neighbors will have to "live with."

OK I happened to drive by Champlain Terrace today, so I looked around. Currently there are 2 baseball diamonds that face away from Champlain Terrace, so the only baseballs that are gonna land there are fouls.

What exactly is in the new plan that requires (a) more protection from baseballs for Champlain Terrace and (b) the felling of trees?

There's a big piece of this story missing.

I went by today too crank, this morning.

And I saw the need to remove the trees if you want a full sized field without having to run on the track (to field balls) and over uneven surfaces. The picture above in this post doesn't show the other diamond (left of frame) which is quite close to the track.

BTW, I have always meant to ask here someday. On the other end of the street off Chestnut, across from the skating rink is a little "park" with an enormous "mound" in it. It looks like a large (for wont of a better word) "tumor" in the grass, maybe 8 feet by 15 feet. Anyone know what it is? Native American burial ground? Fallout shelter? Mazie's "den" ?

It is not a native American burial mound, ROC. At least not according to an archaeological book I just quickly consulted that says the Amerinds round here didn't use mounds..

But you may be on to something with your reference to Mazie. Possibly it's where this Grendel-like figure deposits the bones of the Republican carrion she dines up nightly. Her own version of a Parsee "tower of silence," so to speak.

I was told (by some long time Montclair residents)that it was where the dirt that was removed from the field (and maybe the arena)was dumped and that kids use it for sledding when it snows.

I heard the mound is the dirt from the pool in back of the skating rink when it was excavated. My daughter is out with many other young kids after each snowfall enjoying that mound. I have seen people drive there to use it.

As far as the ground levels at the field, a portion of the less expensive renovation would be equalizing the ground level to match the track. This would be done at the same time as the new sod would be laid.

Thanks badd_patti. (and Jimmy)

ROC, my whole life I always thought that the mound was the dirt that was removed for the building of the rink, but my mom just told me that the mound was there before either the rink or the pool was there. She said they may have put more dirt on the pile when they did dig out the rink, but it was there first. As kids we called it the pregnant hill or pregnant field.

She also added that years ago when the BOE wanted to put in or expand the football practice field at Woodman they, without telling anyone, started cutting down many large oaks. They were physically stopped by angry Champlain residents in semi-squatter like fashion and the cutting was stopped. Now that's the Montclair I know.

Save the oaks!

Thanks State.

"Now that's the Montclair I know."

Putting the needs of themselves (or, perhaps their "view") before the needs of others, yes, me too!

Nah, the Montclair I mean is the one where common resources are valued and important decisions about those resources are made with input from all citizens, fool that I am.

And I don’t see it as the locals saving the trees for themselves, I see them saving something of value for future generations. On the contrary, some people are putting the needs of the baseball team before the needs of the entire town.

What "needs of the entire town" would those trees represent? It is not even a public park.

p.s.

No "report" back from the BOE meeting. Was there any yelling? placards? People dressed as trees? Did Pat Kenschaft pound the lectern?

I heard that the trees came dressed as people and that an agreement was reached among the participants not to divulge what was decided.

If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding!

Stand still laddie!

I was at yet another meeting, and didn't go to the BOE meeting, but from what I heard about 35 people came to speak, all in opposition to the plan. Too bad Channel 34 didn't record THAT meeting!

One person, not prone to emotion, called the presentations "moving." I understand there were a lot of long time residents speaking. Some of these folks families have lived in the area for close to 100 years. And many are long time, and significant, contributors to school fund raising.

Speaking of significance, at Monday's board of ed review of the budget money for the relocation of the ball field was raised by $150,000 to $1MM, and several areas were cut, including $80,000 which was going to be used to hire a middle school supervisory person. Part of that person's responsibility would have been to coordinate a Gifted program -- project SAIL.

Maybe the Gifted contingent needs to show up next.

By the way, the relocated field will have home plate in the corner of Champlain and the NJ Transit tracks. The right field line goes along the NJ tracks, the left field line along Champlain.

Jocks-1
Nerds-0

The nerds will eventually win.

Come on, ROC, the only trees worth preserving are in public parks???

No, Byron. But I am not making the argument that the these trees meet the "needs of the entire town" either.

It's a pretty weak argument.

Whom do these trees affect? The residents in the immeadiate area (visually) and anyone who uses the field.

Those are the "interests" which have to be weighed.

The rest is just histronics.

"histrionics"

1. The next Board of School Estimate hearing at Glenfield School on Monday, March 27, at 7:30 PM.

2. The members of the Board of School Estimate are:

Mayor Remsen
Councilor Tobin -1st Ward
Councilor Schlager -2nd Ward
Dr. Baskerville -Board of Ed.
Ms. Demming -Board of Ed.

Will there be armed guards?

They must be expecting a big crowd. Glenfield auditorium holds a lot of people

We'll all be there with our resumes to apply for the overpaid project coordinator job. $267,000 for a year is a LOT of money.

Will the 40 foot wall obstruct the view of the fireworks?

I think it's planned to be a fence- so probably not.

ok...murder is a bit over the top.

however, MHS has been playing thier baseball games there ever since i can remember....as a matter of fact i used to play sandlot ball on that field. why are the trees suddenly in the way? There is more than enough room to leave the trees and still play baseball. The idea that this town is focused on 30 trees scares the crap out of me when we're about to dump tens of millions of dollars on a school. not to say that spending money on a school is bad, except when you consider how many schools we've gotten rid of in the last few decades.

the baseball field is a moot point anyway....In 5 years we'll be griping about the proposed indoor football stadium that this HIGH SCHOOL needs (rolls eyes)