Bias Assault Charge for Nicolo's

I sure have no desire to go there anymore. Very unfortunate. I've been a customer for over 35 years. There are a lot of other good italian deli's in town-unfortunately we are short on affordable bakers, especially after that incident.

Now why does this have anything to do with race?
Have there been racial remarks or what?

I have been buying their -EXCELLENT- bread for 14 years. So...Barista...a bit more detail on the story please.

I hear the delivery man has plans to move to New Hampshire ...

Star Ledger

Aug. 5, 2006

Bakers are accused of assault and bias

MONTCLAIR: The owners of Nicolo's Italian Bakery were charged with making racial epithets and assaulting an African-American delivery driver in on of Montclair's rare cases of a bias crime, police said yesterday.
The accused-identified as Nicholas Zecchino 3rd and his brother, Joseph Zecchino-were charged with aggravated assault and bias intimidation stemming from the July 27 incident, said Deputy Police Chief Roger Terry.
The victim, a 35-year-old Roselle man working for a Hillside paper company, was dragged out of the Baldwin Street bakery and kicked and punched about the head and face, police said. He was treated at Mountainside Hospital for his injuries and released.
The assault, which was reported about 11:30 a.m. that Thursday, was accompanied by racial slurs directed at the victim, police said.
"The owners seem to be upset that this particular delivery individual comes around lunch time, which is their busiest time,"Terry said yesterday.
Montclair typically has only a couple of bias incidents a year, according to the State Police's Uniform Crime Report. "Very, very few," Terry said.
The accused were taken to Montclair police headquarters; bail for each was set
at $25, 000.

New Hamshire "Live free or Die"
That New Hampshire?

Cross them off the list. Calandra's bread kicks their ass anyway.

Really lamentable action by the Zecchino bros. I just bought deli and baked goods there and they were busily attending to customers. The place was packed.

This is awful. Did the police witness the incident? It's doubtful, since it's hard to imagine the scene escalating like this if there was a cop present. What basis to the cops have for assuming its a "bias crime"? The victim's statement? What do the Zecchino brothers say? What do eyewitnesses say? Etc.

I always thought those bakery brothers had a bit of an attitude.

Their semolina bread kicks butt -- but I guess they do too!

I don't care why they hit the guy or what they did or didn't say when they hit him. I won't be taking my business there *because* they hit the guy.

The f-ing guy keeps showing up at lunchtime because he works a route. Move your bakery closer to Hillside, and he'll show up earlier.

"I have been buying their -EXCELLENT- bread for 14 years. So...Barista...a bit more detail on the story please. "

So what? You've been buying from them for 14 years and you're pleased with their product, so obviously there's no possibility that there's bias. Face it - if they're being charged with a hate crime, there's some basis behind it. The whole point of a trial is to see whether or not the accusations are true. If you feel they're false (and have a reason behind that), you can yell about it after the trial rules them not guilty. Until then, try and keep all of the arguments you have against the trial logical.

So basically, you're saying that they are guilty until they prove themselves innocent.

Why even have a trial at all, after all:

if they're being charged with a hate crime, there's some basis behind it.

You are an idiot.

Some very common "Montclair-type" reactions above, including some self-righteous dolt who has already condemned the brothers Zecchino to Klansmen status based on what little press coverage is available to date.

And I guess Schupo thinks all right-thinking people should now boycott the bakery until (and if) there is a trial, should only come back for that pretty good bread if the brothers are acquitted. Good grief, the rush to judgment here is like a Class-3 stretch rapids, all verbal froth and assumed moral surety.

I certainly hope that any local eateries that may use Nicolo's as their supplier for baked goods get a new supplier, and fast.

So Montclair.

Racism does exist, even in Montclair. It will be really interesting if the greater community bans together to fight and oppose such racist behavior. By the way, These two brothers were heard yelling the N word as they kicked him. An there were plenty of eye witnesses to the assault.

we will hang them by their feet.

Better yet- no business from me.

Mr. Briggs, your comments remain "hearsay" until sworn to under oath in a court of law, and extreme hearsay at that. Did you in fact hear racial epithets yourself? Or were you just told they were used by others? In that case, you're absolutely no good as a witness.

It may make some posters feel better to opine now (perhaps they'll also be quicker on the verbal draw the next time someone like Jesse Jackson or the open-minded folks in the Lamont campaign do something similar), but no such opinions seem to be based on the available "evidence." Now chew your bread and sit down.

oh shut up you santimonious dodo-head.

If that was directed at me, you cowardly, web-spinning swine, it might have had more resonance if you'd attached a name and an email address.

But then in the universe of Baristaville, so many rush to post the "right" thing. As opposed to that tricky thing known as the "truth," at least to a standard recognizable in a court of law.

"As opposed to that tricky thing known as the "truth," at least to a standard recognizable in a court of law."

You are right. I'll amend my statement: if it is proven that they hit the guy for the reasons explained in the report above, I will no longer give them my business.

Hiding: the state of New Hampshire is spelled with a "p"

"And I guess Schupo thinks all right-thinking people should now boycott the bakery until (and if) there is a trial, should only come back for that pretty good bread if the brothers are acquitted. Good grief, the rush to judgment here is like a Class-3 stretch rapids, all verbal froth and assumed moral surety."

Where did I make a statement about their guilt? I merely said that the fact that they've been arrested on the grounds of a hate crime means that there's probably some merit behind the charge. As it stands, the accusations of racial slurs being shouted durring the assault satiates my appetite for enough evidence to suffice an arrest - not guilt.

It will all come out in court, the kid who was assualted has a rap sheet and priors that would make your head spin. Plus their are witnesses that saw him throw the first punch and heard no racial slurs.

This was botched by the Montclair Police and the Star Ledger.

I know you are all pumped up because the New Yorker article mentioned you even though the article basically said you were about the equivalent of a church newsletter. The bottom line is: Why do you have to use crap and pissed in your blog? I'm no Puritan but it just strikes me, along with some of your other heds, as being very New York Posty. Of course, if that is what you are striving for, then just forget I typed anything. Just a thought. Are you only going for the clicks or for a place for people to want to vent or do you truly want to achieve anything (besides make money) with this blog? Just wondering?

you are correct cathar, I am no good as a witness. And we should not rush to judgement, but also we should not ignor the fact that the police did believe the witnesses that stuck around, and based on what they heard believed it to be a bias hate crime. The case has been sent to the prosecutor's office in newark. Should the prosecutor agree that it was a crime motivated by racial hatred, then we can expect to see an indictment. Hate crimes are punished very strongly, as they should be. We do know that hate crimes, and bigotry continue to be our legacy. Your logic is the same reason people of good will allowed the carnage to happen throughout Europe, no in fact came forward to say they witnessed the crazy killings of hitler. We should never become that sedate.

Cather although I agree with you, your phrase "court of law" and "truth" is a contradiction at best and mutually exclusive at worst. Anyone who has ever paid attention quickly concludes that our so called justice system is neither just and barely can be called a system except in the sense of perpetuating employment for umpteen millions of civil service unions, politicians, and bars with a vital stake in it's perpetuation. Unfortunately "truth" is a function of how much money and the number and quality of the lawyers on either side. Ever been to the Essex courthouse? or the tombs in Manhattan?

Cather although I agree with you, your phrase "court of law" and "truth" is a contradiction at best and mutually exclusive at worst. Anyone who has ever paid attention quickly concludes that our so called justice system is neither just and barely can be called a system except in the sense of perpetuating employment for umteen millions of civil service unions, politicians, and bars with a vital stake in it's perpetuation. Unfortunately "truth" is a function of how much money and the number and quality of the lawyers on either side. Ever been to the Essex courthouse? or the tombs in Manhattan?

If blacks assult a white person, ( like in the hollow a few times years back and many times in the public schools) how come these aren't biased crimes?

Oh, I am groaning, hiding, that my simple recommendation to wait before passing judgment is the Baristaville equivalent of opening the back door to let the SS into non-German Europe. This is a truly stupid observation. But by this standard of yours, some of Jesse Jackson's prior remarks about Jews (as in the one about "Hymietown") should bring down equally eternal damnation upon the Democratic Party? Is this what you mean to suggest, you hapless twit?

(You might also wish to check up on the definition of "sedate" while you're at it, which is as much a bastardization of language in its own way as the use of racial slurs.)

Schupo, "reports" of racial slurs don't prove a thing. And you did make a statement about the brothers' guilt, and you expressly did it in a way so as to cover yourself with moral glory. Go back and reread the passage in the New Testament about "whited sepulchers."

cathar, you couldn't be any more correct.

theproblem, I have in fact recently finished a stint as a juror in Passaic County. Courteous people, clean surroundings, it was all totally different from three previous jury stints in Essex County. If one believes in "top down management," then Passaic County Sheriff Jerry Speziale is an obvious winner.

Even if, as Lenny Bruce once claimed, that "the only justice in the halls of justice is in the halls." Whatever. At least few rush there as quickly to judgment as some posters did above by way of brandishing their own claimed moral sensitivity.

Zecchino makes good bread. So does Gina's Paneficio. So does Montclair Bread Company.

So do Paramount and DePalo and Calandra.

Lots of choices, lots of places to buy your bread for whatever reason.

Paul, thinking Depalo's makes good bread discredit's your entire statement

Mr. Briggs, racisim has been alive and well in Montclair for quite some time, although it is usually wrapped up in a much nicer package than what has been reported here; also, if this has gotten to the prosecutor's office, someone there must have felt the witnesses were credible enough to make the charge. However, I do agree about a "rush to judgement", having "priors" does not automatically make the delivery guy guilty of causing a disturbance, either.

I agree Hiding, I went into Crocket's once and felt like I had two heads on my shoulders

"Now chew your bread and sit down" - only an arrogant jerk would say this - no matter the circumstances. Does this make it okay for me to tell you to chew your cud and go back to the pasture?

This may have been a hate crime or it may have been a couple of stupid hotheads who beat up on some guy who annoyed them for the last time. That remains to be seen.

A hate crime is defined differently in different states. But here is the essential definition: Beating up on a Black or Jewish guy because he is Black or Jewish is a "hate crime". Beating up on a Black or Jewish guy because he dated your wife is not a "hate crime" because it has nothing to do with race or ethnicity.

To the person who asked the stupid question - when black people assault white people BECAUSE THEY ARE WHITE, it IS indeed, very much of a hate crime.

Has it occurred to anyone that maybe the deliveryman was showing up right at lunchtime despite numerous polite requests to refrain from that somewhat annoying practice?

I know my doctor had to place a sign in his office to request the same courtesy from the drug salespersons, (during office hours) although I'm not quite sure if he meted out the same punishment if they ignored his exhortations.

Cathar,

I stand by my statement.

YOU ARE A DO-DO-HEAD.

Stop telling people how to think and shut up

Well, showing up at lunchtime despite numerous polite requests sounds like a perfectly valid reason to beat the crap out of someone and to call them names to me!

Not to me. I'm not quite sure that would be the right course to persuade the gentleman to cease.

I can imagine that this escalated through the mutual fault of both parties. But we just don't know, do we? If the establishment was crowded there should be plenty of eyewitness accounts Of which none have appeared on this thread, as far as I can tell. Just a lot of blowing off.

Not hiding, it seems to me that more people should tell you how to think, since you obviously can't do it yourself.

Mr. Whitefolks-The Principal of Montclair High School is one of the many citizens of Montclair of European descent known to frequent Crocketts, maybe you need to check your shoulder.

Walleroo, they'd be less crowded if their panini warmer worked more efficiently. For decades, I've frequented them and Nick's Pizzeria before Nicolo's but the wait is too long as my life approaches its final decades.

until this whole matter is completely hashed out, there is no reason to boycott anyone. while these initial reports may not sound good -- it is certainly best to wait for information before jumping to conclusions. accusations should not hold any water on their own.

no way...i live right around the corner and have been going there for years. i'm not waiting for things to get hashed out! This is a disgusting situation. I'm never going there again. There are plenty of other italian deli's around that serve just as good, if not better, food. Nicolo's should be ashamed of themselves.

If the breadsticks were not used to hit, then you must acquit !!

Hey, I don't like it when the mailman comes at 3:00 rather than 1:00 ... but since I don't bother to consider if his early route had extra packages, thus delaying him, it's okay to pound on him and shout racial names? I don't care how good the bread is, give those jerks the hook!

I'm also one of the white people in this area who goes to Crockett's, and to the DLV Lounge for that matter. I like Crockett's fish and DLV's the only place that serves High Life bottles. At no time did I ever feel eyeballed or like my life was in danger (except when the bartender at DLV carded me during the winter and I didn't have my license).

I'm not saying things are perfect, or that this string isn't an example of how racism very much exists in Montclair (shit, I knew that when I was at Immaculate and MKA kids would taunt my classmates during our walk-a-thons). I'm just saying that things aren't always what they seem.

Take for example Nicolo's: Located where it is, Nicolo's has a fairly diverse customer base and, until this, no history of racial incidents. My friends who are instructors at the Montclair Y used to go down there all the time for lunch, and they're an extremely diverse crew not known for taking perceived racism lightly.

This goes back to my argument about the Internet and fact-checking: When you have anonymous posters putting up hearsay or even outright lies, what kind of service are you really providing? As for the folks who touted Walnut Street artisan bakers as a "good alternative," there's a subtle touch of the gentrifier's voice in there. Product isn't what keeps you coming back to a place for 14 years... personality does, human contact does, kindness does. Kindness is why the Dyers have earned my business at Tierney's. Kindness toward me and my sister is what earned the Soda Pop Shop's owners our business. As soon as Egan opened his doors in the wee hours of the morning to let us watch soccer, he earned our business.

The guys at Nicolos must have done the same to earn the business of not only their supporters on this site, but the restaurants that use their breads. And if that's the case, that sounds incongrous with two guys who beat up a man and hurl racial epithets at him just because he shows up at the same time each day. I can't see how there isn't more to that story.

I'm not saying they didn't do it, but it's clear that very few of the facts are in and the sources of the comments here seem shaky at best.

A beating by any other name wouldn't smell so sweet (to the media or to a scared police department) -so one must charge up the crime-because if they don't then it's just an assault and alot of non worthy press or a bunch of Al Sharpton buses headed our way.

Utterances in the fit of passion or as in Mel's case doesn't necessarily mean a "hatred" or bias for all just stupidity, wise mouth or unwise as may be the case.

Let he or she who has not uttered a racial adjective or a gender slur whether under your breath or in a fit of something more be the one to cast the first stone.

Not to say that the assault isn't a concern however all that glitters may not be gold my friends or perhaps quite a bit of gold for the "victim".

One must remember that violent actions or reactions bring with them consequences.

notteham

well said. folks are far tooready to accept the first word out on the internet as the absolute truth. many may say here that they "know" what happened. the fact of the matter is that no one here claims to have been there when it happened (and knowing the how easy it is to say whatever like here, i don't know that i would believe someone's word without some sort of substantive backing) so everything is hearsay. why is everyone so willing to believe the worst right off the bat. remember tawana brawley.

maybe all the accusations are absolutely true -- but why work on the assumption that they are?

Several years ago I was a witness to the owner harrassing a black woman who he thought was a visitor to the apartment next door. One of the daughter in-laws from Nicolo's was visiting the store and blocked in this customers car. When she came back in the store and asked if they could move the car the owners screamed racial comments at her. The customer held her tongue and quietly asked if she was not in customer parking and she was a customer. They ended up apoligizing to the woman, but the damage was done. Everyone of color that I know refuses to go in the store because they are racists.

walleroo,

I don't take orders from marsupials. You smell and must be related to cathar because you are both DO_DO HEADS.

Now shut up and get Iceman a beer.

THERE WERE DEFINITELY RACIST COMMENTS MADE....100% SURE. cannot reveal the source, but 100% sure. and what would you call 2 white guys beating the crap out of a black guy when it wasn't theft?

This does not make sense as a "hate crime"

It's hard to believe that this guy came in for a delivery at the wrong time, and one brother said to the other "lets kick the crap out of this black guy because he always comes in at our busy time".

I would have an easier time believing that words were exchanged that turned into a fight, and then racial slurs used while fighting. That would be bad judgement, but not a hate crime. Another question i would have, is did the delivery guy also make similar comments during the fight?

Before everybody puts these guys out of business (our verdict) and into Jail(the Jury's verdict), lets make sure that this was not 3 idiots making racial slurs at each other in the midst of a fight.

Molly,

We know there was a fight, thats clear. We don't know how it really started. We know that the two brothers fought against the delivery guy, but there are many situations in which that would be correct. For example, I would help my brother if he were in a fight. I may even yell racial slurs if my opponent were yelling them at me.

In regard to your 2nd question.

I am white, and got the crap beat out of me by 3 black guys. I know it was a violent crime. I am not sure if it was also a "racial based crime".

Of course we cannot speculate on things not written down in the various reports, that would be wrong. We do know that a delivery person of color was pummeled by two white men. Beaten into the street, where others saw and heard some of what was going on. As a result of this, police have reason to believe the two white men may have committed a bias crime. Without any rush to judgement, if this situation was reversed, I'm sure cathar would assume the people of color where in the wrong, BEFORE any trial or proof were established.

Why would anyone think he would NOT defend the intolerant racists who beat a man down in broad daylight?

Let's make this crystal clear: Racist behaviors are exhibited everyday in Essex County. I'm surprised at how backward everyone can be in an area so close to NYC. The idea that Black folk could exist who have resources and are not standing on the top of South Mountain proclaiming it seems alien to many of you, no matter your color. Just like whites, Asians, Latins or any other group, Black people are not a monolithic group. We're not all from the same hood!

Moving to this area and finding out that there are intolerant people of ALL races beside us is very stressful; good people need to stick together and root it out! And don't tell me anything about what Jesse said 25 years ago! I'm not down with Jesse Jackson! Or Al Sharpton or whoever some white person thinks I should be following. I'll deliver my own justice, as I have counseled many people in the past. When you get substandard service, for ANY REASON, don't spend another dollar there. And here's the best part: I've got money to spend! So there! That bakery will get none of my hard earned money.

Oh, cathar -

If they find these accusations are untrue, I'll be happy to patronize the bakery again. But I won't hold my breath.

it's the hitting and kicking part that i find so disturbing--whether it is white on black violence or black on white, or black on black, or any combination of ethnic/religious/racial assault, it is horrifying. when the violence starts, permanent emotional and physical damage can be done. i agree that the facts must be presented in a court of law. i have sat on juries and i understand how there are so many sides to a story and so much evidence to be reviewed, meticulously.
but i do hope that as a community, we take a strong stand against any kind of physical violence because the toll is so awful, to everyone. no matter who does it, or why.

it's the hitting and kicking part that i find so disturbing--whether it is white on black violence or black on white, or black on black, or any combination of ethnic/religious/racial assault, it is horrifying. when the violence starts, permanent emotional and physical damage can be done. i agree that the facts must be presented in a court of law. i have sat on juries and i understand how there are so many sides to a story and so much evidence to be reviewed, meticulously.
but i do hope that as a community, we take a strong stand against any kind of physical violence because the toll is so awful, to everyone. no matter who does it, or why.

I am always surprised by my own white culture. We tolerate no injustice, except with the victims are black or some other minority. Then we look for reasons for the justification. There is none. People, please we are not talking about misguided teenagers, we are talking grown men here. No matter what the individual did to instigate the bakers, two against one is such a lynch mob mentality. All people of good will need to band together and treat this for what it is. A horrible act not matter what the justification. By the way for all those who post without any idea of what it takes to advance a bias assualt claim, the rules are different, and quite clear. Do not attack or engage in a violent manner any other human being based on their race.
The let us wait and see atitude it going to not set well in Montclair. Anyone who really know Montclair and has been here, knows the brothers have and atitude with blacks. They have a history, since high school, so take heed, careful who you defend.

"THERE WERE DEFINITELY RACIST COMMENTS MADE....100% SURE. cannot reveal the source, but 100% sure. and what would you call 2 white guys beating the crap out of a black guy when it wasn't theft?"

Has your source filed a statement with the police, Molly? Perhaps he/she should. Forget for a second that the second half of that sentence neuters the credibility of your claim. You've clearly taken a side in this dispute and appear to have an ax to grind.

Lee: There's one problem with the last portion of your argument... which is that it's a lose-lose situation. If you boycott and others boycott the shop and the brothers turned out NOT to have shouted racial slurs at the guy or beat him up for some other reason (if there's one thing that outnumbers racists both in New Jersey and its Italian-American community, it's hotheads), then you might put otherwise good guys out of business for no reason. However, and this is the VERY valid argument you make, if you keep supporting these guys and they turn out to be the racists many claim they are, then you've tacitly supported their stance.

Mr. Briggs: "White culture"? Your last post is awash in broad generalizations. Like Lee says, there's no one "white culture" that fits neatly into the broken little hole you've made for it. If that were the case, you as a white person would be just as guilty as the people you implicate. "White people" come from myriad ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds that deeply effect their views and approach to dealing with issues of race. No one is justifying what these men did in terms of violence. There seems to be no question that they assaulted the man, two against one, and likely will see jail time for it. The question here is whether it was a bias crime, and you seem ill-suited as an impartial judge to that as well. To use the term "lynch mob mentality" to describe one brother joining in with another in an act of violence (which is a common occurrence in fights involving people of all races... as evidenced by more than a few stories told on the bus) with such a loaded term is inflammatory and irresponsible. It's a thug mentality, sure, and one that unfortunately plays into unfair stereotypes involving their ethnic heritage, but it is not a "lynch mob mentality." Ask any black man or woman who lived in the south in the first half of the 20th century (or the latter half in the cases of Michael Donald in 1981 or James Byrd in 1998) or ask anyone who had to deal with Anthony Imperiale's little gang of idiots to describe to you what a lynch mob and a "lynch mob mentality" is. For those who feel I unfairly target Italians with that Imperiale remark, I also suggest you look into the case of Viola Liouzzo, an Italian-American woman lynched in 1965 for taking part in the Selma-Montgomery march.

Finally, as for any alleged racial remarks being excusable in the heat of violence -- NO. NO, NO, NO. Racial epithets are bad enough when they're whispered down through the generations into the ears of kids who haven't even met or gotten to know people of other races yet, they're even worse when they're used DURING an act of violence. Not only does it indicate simmering racial hostility within the user, but it becomes as much of a weapon as a stick or balled fist -- and leaves much deeper wounds.

P.S. Just for historical perspective, here's a look at Nicolo's neighborhood based on race and housing. Depending on how you look at it, it's either a strange place for a racist to end up, or just the kind of place that would help foster racial resentment: http://www.chss.montclair.edu/~klobyg/raceandhousing.html

My bias is against bread.

I agree with you it's the breads fault.

Doesn't matter what race the delivery guy is...he didn't deserve to get beaten to a pulp for doing his job! I will never again do business there. Let's hit them where it hurts: in the wallet.

Are you sure they weren't shooting a scene for The Sopranos?

Come on everyone, lighten up a little, please

PS - That neighborhood used to be Italian - so they did not 'end up' there

ALSO -- the New Yorker mention was awesome, something to be proud of

"Notteham" is definitely Cathar or ROC - who else would call out Viola Liouzzo and also post an obscure link? Don't tell me there's a third person with the same M.O. ... fess up, Notte - which one are you?

Yes, and who is the poster 'Penis is Circumcised'?

What's up with that one??

The best bread in NJ is from Balthazar's in Englewood... and YES it is worth the ride.

BTW - it is common practice in almost every industry that delivery times are restricted. No deliveries during lunch are the most common.

FOLKS
No one deserves to be beaten up, no matter what. To hell with what time his delivery was. Violent attacks like this dimenishes us all. Here is the question, do you support racist in our community.

LOL this is exactly like watching hours of a "special news report" on TV. All speculation, no substance, because nobody has the facts yet.

It's a short news item, so leave it at that, and let it unfold over time as it should.

Oh...and try baking your own bread!

*still chuckling*

Notteham, you are so, so, ...so earnest, that's it!, in a graduate student or aspiring "rock critic," wearing steel-rimmed glasses, kind of way. I can almost smell the callowness. Where were you when Ms. Liuzzo was shot in the head? (She was not "lynched.") Where were you during Imperiale's heyday when his fairly crafty manipulation of racial politics was to some extent the reason there wasn't a total white exodus from the North Ward? (The Gibson administration, enthralled as it was back then with black nationalism, would have and did nothing to retain them.) Were you even around during the first half of the 20th century? Or in the freedom-riding days of the mid-60's? Were you even born by then? I much doubt it.

Rico, so many others, all your less than thoughtful posts serve to do is to remind me of how easy it is to assemble instant rabble on this site. And Rico, you should keep chewing your bread, a big, starchy slice, if only by way of shutting up your big, fat, dogmatic mouth. Go for the seeded loaf, please.

LOL this is exactly like watching hours of a "special news report" on TV. All speculation, no substance, because nobody has the facts yet.

It's a short news item, so leave it at that, and let it unfold over time as it should.

Oh...and try baking your own bread!

*still chuckling*

"FOLKS
No one deserves to be beaten up, no matter what. To hell with what time his delivery was. Violent attacks like this dimenishes us all. Here is the question, do you support racist in our community."

I do not support racism but I do support the fact that more people need a good beating every once in a while.

At this point in the whole matter how do you know it is racism?

It seems like the real racism here is you assuming that it is and not understading why we want to wait for the proof?

Hiding, the delivery boy taunted them and made threats that they and their families are not safe..."watch your back" " I know where you 2 live"

For them to take time from the busiest period of the day to beat up someone was for good reason. they dont have time to go to the bathroom.

Verbal threats are not taken lightly by some, especially when you are in a tough neighborhood.

He got what was coming

Warning, above, is also crazy. And everybody knows there are no "tough neighborhoods" anywhere in Baristaville. I mean, come on now.

Disagree, Warning. Sticks and stones...remember? No matter how vile the taunts, it's not against the law to call someone names. It is a crime, however, to inflict violence on another person unless you can prove it was self-defense. There should be ZERO tolerance for violent acts like this in our community.

Disagree, Warning. Sticks and stones...remember? No matter how vile the taunts, it's not against the law to call someone names. It is a crime, however, to inflict violence on another person unless you can prove it was self-defense. There should be ZERO tolerance for violent acts like this in our community.

"Hiding, the delivery boy taunted them and made threats that they and their families are not safe..."watch your back" " I know where you 2 live"

For them to take time from the busiest period of the day to beat up someone was for good reason. they don't have time to go to the bathroom.

Verbal threats are not taken lightly by some, especially when you are in a tough neighborhood.

He got what was coming"

If this is true then I agree with you. I guess you were there to hear it?

If not they you are doing the same thing the racist poster was doing by assuming first that it had to be racist.

I do think that there are appropriate times to give someone a good beating. Threaten my family and you will get a good beating every time.

Thursday was a blistering hot day. Working in a bakery on a day like that had to be hellish. Tempers must have been very short.
Bad behavior is never excusable, but sometimes it is understandable. Grown men acting like school boy bullies is sickening, that's for sure. Racism is everywhere..that is also for sure. We don't have all the facts -- so no conclusions can really be drawn at this time.

Well, Hiding, maybe you'd be happier living in Howard Beach instead of Baristaville.

Historical perspective does not mitigate the fact that two adults at their "busy" time of day for their business, decided to attack a person in their shop, screaming epithets during their beat down. Even when provoked, modern society would have you remove the offending person from your shop, and if laws were broken, restrain them until law enforcement arrives.

These procedures were not carried out, perhaps because there is an element of familiarity between the participants. Notteham's call against a rush to judgement also connotes a familiarity with the establishment and perhaps the participants. Martta's points are an ideal, not always the reality we live in. People get physical when they are provoked, which seems to be the flavor of the moment.

Notteham, everyone reserves the right to spend their money where they choose, boycott or not. Two men beating on one is not fair either, last time I checked. Unless you tell me he "Deserved" the beatdown, which doesn't make sense, given the facts we hold at present.

Nobody deserves to get beaten like that if they haven't raised a hand against anyone. I don't think there's any excuse for tolerating that kind of behavior, no matter what color the victims or assailants are. The issue here should be first and foremost why on earth the Zecchinos saw it necessary, (if they are gulity!) to assault a person who hadn't attacked them. Apologists for that kind of behavior should stand down. It's against the law. Period.

Why Howard beach? More racial attacks take place in Bed Sty.

unnamed sources say the delivery guy asked for some fresh crackers. The bakery guys misinterpreted this.

Can't we all just get along?

Ever since Congress passed the Hate Crimes Statistics Act eleven years ago mandating the collection of data about transgressions motivated by an offenders bias against a victims race, religion, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, states have been enacting hate crimes legislation at a feverish pace. To hear the liberal media and the so-called civil rights leaders talk about it you would believe that heterosexual white males were the only perpetrators of these types of crimes. Al Sharpton even characterized white on black violence as “a national epidemic.” Jesse Jackson asserts that blacks are not only “despised” but are actually “hunted for sport.” Nothing could be further from the truth.
Even the FBI’s own statistics show that the average black is 1.6 times more likely to commit a racially motivated hate crime than the other way around. This doesn’t even take into account the fact that a white on black crime is five times more likely to be categorized as a hate crime than a black on white crime is. This is one of the main problems with hate crime legislation. There is no clear standard used to make a classification. Law enforcement and the media are biased when it comes to classifying a crime as one of hate.

When black on white crimes occur they get very little attention from the media and the majority of that is local coverage. Even when reported, race is usually omitted from the news story. Everyone has heard of the horror stories about the Wyoming gay student Matthew Shepard’s murder and the dragging death of James Byrd in Texas. Both received national coverage and around the clock headlines, as they should have.

Unless you get most of your news from the Internet, I will bet you never heard of Ronald Taylor, a black man who gunned down five whites killing three. A black neighbor quoted Taylor as saying “ I’m gonna kill all white people.” The media when reporting this story went out of their way to avoid an appearance of racism. According to Larry Elder, news anchors cautioned that we don’t know whether Taylor’s alleged hatred against whites was the “primary” or “sole” reason for the shootings. Even the police failed to refer to this crime as a hate crime.

Another story you may have missed happened on November 11, 1999 in Kansas City. An Ethiopian man shot and killed two co-workers and wounded a third person. All of the victims were white. The black shooter, who also killed himself, left a letter talking about “bloodsucker” whites. A total of only eleven newspapers even bothered to carry a story about this apparent race based shooting. Here again it was never officially categorized as a hate crime.

Crimes like the ones mentioned above happen frequently but get very little attention from the national media or liberal politicians. According to an a August 1999 column by Dr. Walter Williams, the National Crime Victimization Survey for 1997 listed 1,700,000 interracial crimes; of those 1,276,030 involved blacks and whites. In 90% of the cases, a white was the victim and a black was the perpetrator.

Another finding of the NCVS report is that of the 2,025,464 violent crimes committed by blacks 1,140,670 were against whites (56%). In the same time period whites committed 5,114,692 violent crimes. Of those 135,360 or only 2.6% were committed against blacks. Given these statistics who really hates who? You certainly won’t find these statistics in the New York Times.

Hate crime laws punish people for what they think and say, not for what they do. According to Lowell Ponte writing for Front Page Magazine “the rational for this is that those who commit a crime out of “hate” are terrorists deliberately causing fear among all who belong to the group-racial, gender, gender preference or whatever-of their victim.” The problem is that hate crime laws are highly selective. “They have the effect of making the same crime against some citizens more subject to punishment than if committed against others.”

I am not pointing out these statistics to prove that blacks hate whites more than the other way around. My point is no one can really prove why a criminal chooses his victim in most cases. Most of the people in charge of making these decisions are under enormous political pressures to make the “right” decision. This is why hate crime laws are biased and should not be allowed. In addition they violate the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Making one group more equal than others. It is important that we resist these types of laws. I encourage all Americans who still believe in the US Constitution to write to your federal and state legislators stating your opposition to the enactment of these laws in the future.

the above post was cool. too long to read though so I didn't

Warning,
What's your point? Does that make thugs in Howard Beach better than thugs in Bed-Stuy? Also, it's worth noting that Bed-Stuy has over three times as many people as Howard Beach. As Mark Twain said, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. Get off your high horse.

Warning, did you write that, or have you cut-and-pasted something to which you could have linked? We should know your source.

Bed Stuy IS a sty. I bought a bed there.

From today's "Baking News:"

Roughly sandwich-sized calzones are often sold at Italian lunch counters or by street vendors because they are easy to eat while standing or walking. Sweet versions, usually smaller, cookie-sized, are a specialty in the Marche. Calzones are similar to stromboli, but traditionally the two are distinct dishes, as stromboli usually contains only mozzarella cheese. Calzones are a relative specialty in most Western countries, often served as a complement to pizza, a similar but much more common dish. This dish causes some amusing confusion for Central and South Americans where calzones are girls' underpants, in written Spanish slang.

Cannoli, also called Turkish hats, are Italian pastry desserts. The singular is cannolo, meaning “little tube”, with the etymology stemming from the Latin "canna", or reed. Cannoli originated in Sicily and are an essential part of Sicilian cuisine. They are also widely eaten in Italian American cuisine. Cannoli consist of tube-shaped shells of fried pasta, filled with a sweet, creamy filling called "cannoli cream" and commonly containing Mascarpone or sweetened ricotta cheese blended with some combination of vanilla, chocolate, pistachio, Marsala wine, rosewater or other flavorings. Some chefs add chopped candied fruit (citron, orange peel, or cherries). They range in size from "cannulicchi", no bigger than a finger, to the fist-sized proportions typically found in Piana degli Albanesi, south of Palermo, Sicily. Regardless of size, the shells should be filled as late as possible to avoid becoming soggy, thus losing the crunchiness that provides contrast with the softness of the filling.

Food historians believe cannoli date to the time of Sicily's Arab dominion by the Saracens or even earlier; the tubelike shape may reflect Druidic stele and menhir. Originating in the Palermo area, they were historically prepared as a treat during Carnevale season, possibly as a fertility symbol; one legend assigns their origin to the harem of Caltanissetta. The dessert eventually became a year-round staple throughout what is now Italy.

As with Sicilian cassata, also Sicilian cannoli probably date back to the time of Arab dominion. They are traditionally prepared for festivities at Carnival time (though nowadays they are to be found all year round); they consist of a fried, rolled-up wafer, filled with sweetened ricotta cheese, candied fruit and chocolate drops. They should be eaten when just newly made. Also essential, the filling must be inserted into the shells shortly before they are sold, otherwise they can become humid and are no longer crunchy; it is precisely this contrast between the softness of the runny filling and the fragrance of the shell that makes these little pastries so exquisitely delicious.

Named for its pipelike shape and intended as a treat at Carnevale, cannoli spread through Italy and were eventually a fixture in almost every pastry shop. The elaborately flavored dough is rolled and shaped around a metal cylinder, then deep fried. When cool, the crisp cookie-like tubes are filled with a sweetened ricotta mixture enriched with candied fruits and small bits of chocolate. In one classic version the dough is made from flour, sugar, egg white, bitter cocoa, powdered coffee, Marsala, brandy, salt, and a tiny amount of lard, and candied pumpkin and orange are used in the filling. The origins of cannoli, also called Turkish hats, can be traced back to the Saracens or even to pre-Christian times. The tubelike shapes may have imitated the steles and menhirs common to the Druids, and were thought to be fertility symbols.

What everybody is missing here is two people running a business took time out to kick a delivery man's ass. I'm sure he didn't drive from Roselle to Montclair to get kicked and punched in the street. What could have have possibly done to warrant that? Show up during their busy time? If he was rde to a worker or a customer, he may have had a beat down coming to him, but f that wasn't the case, then the owners of the bakery should do some time. If the reports of racial slurs are true, then that's a rap. I lived in that neighborhood for 20 years and went to that bakery a billion times for bread. If I didn't go there to get it, I went to ACME to get it. Now I find out I may have been eating bread made by a racists? Damn that. People get thrown under the train nowadays for doing way less. If half of the story is right, that's enough for anyone to stop going there, unless you support 21st century racism.

What everybody is missing here is two people running a business took time out to kick a delivery man's ass. I'm sure he didn't drive from Roselle to Montclair to get kicked and punched in the street. What could he have possibly done to warrant that? Show up during their busy time? If he was rde to a worker or a customer, he may have had a beat down coming to him, but f that wasn't the case, then the owners of the bakery should do some time. If the reports of racial slurs are true, then that's a rap. I lived in that neighborhood for 20 years and went to that bakery a billion times for bread. If I didn't go there to get it, I went to ACME to get it. Now I find out I may have been eating bread made by a racists? Damn that. People get thrown under the train nowadays for doing way less. If half of the story is right, that's enough for anyone to stop going there, unless you support 21st century racism.

People are watching way too much Sopranos. Somepeople the show is a documentary....