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If You Build It, They Will Protest

Wednesday, September 13, 2006

Glen Ridge may be known as a jock town, but athletic organizations learned last night that building their fields of dreams -- or should we say, astroturfing them -- won't necessarily be a walk in the park. Hundreds of people showed up at the Ridgewood Avenue auditorium for a public hearing on a $7 million bond measure -- $2 million of which would go to turfing two fields. But before they even started their two hours of impassioned whining, Mayor Carl Bergmanson announced that the issue will be tabled for two weeks to give the council more time to think.

He also announced that it will take four votes of the six-member council to pass the measure. He said he is not allowed a vote.

GRAA trotted out dozens of sports-playing kids in team uniforms bearing signs, but the signs went down after the meeting started. Pro-turfing advocates argued that the current fields are unsafe, unsightly and embarrassing, and that current efforts to sod or seed have not withstood the proliferation of sports competitions in town.

Anti-turfing forces argued that artificial turf is ugly, bad for the environment, uncomfortable for bare feet, exceedingly hot in the summer and unfitting for a town that prides itself on gas lamps and quaintness. But the biggest issue was the added tax burden. There was a recurrent insistence that if the sports parents want their fields turfed, they should raise the money themselves. Several people pointed out that the auditorium where the meeting was held was refurbished with $750,000 of privately-raised money.

By our tally, 20 people spoke against the bond, and 13 people spoke for it.

It was also learned that the GRAA, which gets $250,000 in registration fees, pays nothing to the town on a regular basis for upkeep of the fields.

With the exception of Bergmanson, nobody on the council spoke. A few took notes, but most stared straight ahead with expressions of studied inscrutability.

Surprisingly, a few people took swipes at the public library, which would get $966,650 of capital improvements under the bond proposal. Resident Marc Levinson suggested getting rid of it altogether and entering into a cooperative agreement with nearby towns. Richard Moriarity -- to emphasize the relative importance of the playing fields -- mentioned that he'd been in the library only twice in all his years in town, and one of those times was to get hot cocoa after the Christmas tree lighting.

Posted by Debbie Galant on September 13, 2006 10:02 AM
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"Richard Moriarity -- to emphasize the relative importance of the playing fields -- mentioned that he'd been in the library only twice in all his years in town..."

Well, you don't have to physically go to the library to use it these days. I'm not sure about the Glen Ridge library, but for the Bloomfield and Montclair public libraries, you can use some of their resources from home -- you can log on to their subscription databases using your library barcode as a user ID (while keeping another browser window open for Barista, of course). And I recall someone posting here that they were able to log on to the Montclair library's free wireless network by pulling up to the curb in the front of the library during microblast-caused extended power outage over the summer.

I use both the Bloomfield and Montclair libraries, and items borrowed from either library can be returned to either library. Does anyone know if I could do the same with the Glendridge library?

Posted by skipwith | September 13, 2006 11:19 AM
 

Although it sounds odd to eliminate the library, but I would have to agree with Moriarity. If you look at the percentage of people and number of times people use the fields vs the library, the numbers have got to be very lopsided toward the fields. The GR library is inferior to Montclair's and I would think something could be worked out to use their facilities and we can eliminate the library altogether. There would be no detrimental affect on our children's education and resources to information, the Montclair Library would actually be a huge upgrade. The cost savings to not upgrade the library plus the amount saved to not have to run the library would pay for the entire field project.

Posted by ByeByeBooks | September 13, 2006 11:26 AM
 

Richard Moriarity -- to emphasize the relative importance of the playing fields -- mentioned that he'd been in the library only twice in all his years in town...


And he's proud of this?!!!

Posted by Amanda | September 13, 2006 11:26 AM
 

If you turf it, they will lock it.

Posted by jimmy229oz | September 13, 2006 11:29 AM
 

Yes, let's rid the town of the library. Excellent idea. In fact, why not bonfire the books so Glen Ridge athletes can start the sport season off right. We'll make it a townwide initiative. Instead of firewood this winter we can all use the leftovers from the library to heat our homes. That would save us some money, too. All non-altheletes or althletes that like to read or need to do some research can go to Montclair or Bloomfield.

Posted by Oscar | September 13, 2006 11:52 AM
 

Oscar is with me, let's get a petition going!

Posted by ByeByeBooks | September 13, 2006 11:55 AM
 

The GR library may be "inferior" to Montclair's but it still provides a great service to the people of Glen Ridge. The Summer Reading program attracts a ton of kids and the party at the end of it is one of the highlights of the summer.

When my kids were little, they were at the library all the time for story time and they always were taking out books. The beauty of our library is that it is smack in the center of town, which means that it is within walking distance for a huge number of town residents.

Every time I am there, I see people on the computers, others browsing the stacks, and children in the reading room. It is an important asset to our community. If we close it and require people to go to other towns, that would be quite sad.

And the idea that we should remove this accessibility and sacrifice this in order to put turf on the fields is even sadder.

I love the idea of children playing outside, learning sportsmanship, getting exercise, etc. I love it as much as the idea that they learn to love reading and view reading as an important part of their lives. To suggest that athletics takes precedence over reading is appalling, IMHO.

Posted by appalled | September 13, 2006 12:07 PM
 

Richard Moriarity -- to emphasize the relative importance of the playing fields -- mentioned that he'd been in the library only twice in all his years in town...

Great reasoning. Let's see where this leads: Since I have only called the police twice since I've been a resident, let's disband the department. I've NEVER been in the City Hall building, so I say get rid of that, too. Plus, as far as I know, only a few people live on Essex Ave, and I very rarely drive down that road, so think of the savings if we just get rid of it. What else? I have never swung on the baby swings at Clay Field, so let's get rid of those, too. Richard, you might be on to something!

Here's an idea. Let's follow Richard around for a month, just to watch what he uses and doesn't use. Then, anything left untouched by his hand at the end of the month we should get rid of. Think of the savings!

 

I wouldn't GET RID of the library. It does serve the library. As for how much YOU use the library is not too relevant. I also RARELY use those fields, so it's tit-for-tat.

But the idea of "merging" our library services with a neighbor are a pretty ligitimate idea. The idea would that some more rarely used services could be "relocated" to the main branch, but the existing glen ridge library could remain open as a small branch. But sharing books and services would allow glen ridge to offer better services. It would also give our "partner" library a new branch in their network.

Of course, it would remain to see what sort of costs savings would be under that scenario. It sounds more like a "quality" than a "quanity" increase. But it might cause them to rethink any new rebuild in the library itself.

As for the fields:
$2M is a pretty high price. I want to know exactly what that's going to cause my property taxes to increase. I think it would be FAIR to require the GRAA to pick up some of that tab. A 50/50 split would make sense. You could create an athletic use fee,that the GRAA would pay to cover their "share" of the bond. It's either higher taxes or higher use fees. Splitting those fees down the middle would be fair.

Example: The town could "cover" the $2m bond, but could require the GRAA to pay an annual use fee for the parks to help offset the tax burden. Asking them to pay an additional 75K to 100K a year to the town would "cover" servicing about 1M (assuming a 20 year bond).

I think that new fields would probably make our town even more attractive to new residents (which drives our home prices up) but I think it true that the burden should be fair.

Posted by michael gray | September 13, 2006 12:30 PM
 

To answer some questions about Glen Ridge Library that were raised last night and in postings since:

In 2005:
87,835 people visited the Library (electronic counters at both entrances generate these numbers); 318 children's programs were offered throughout the year, including the Summer Reading Club, which had over 300 participants; through membership in BCCLS (Bergen County Cooperating Library System) over 7,000 items were borrowed from other libraries for Glen Ridge residents. If Glen Ridge had to purchase each of these items the estimated cost would be more than $145,000; through shared electronic subscriptions with the State Library and through BCCLS, Glen Ridge residents have access to over $80,000 worth of electronic databases from any Internet computer, 24/7; any resident with a library card can search the library catalog, request books, DVDs, books on CD, music CDs and other items, renew borrowed items, download music and audiobooks and do lots more, also 24/7, from any Internet computer (visit www.bccls.org.

The Library provides a safe place for many grade school children who come in after school every day, and wait for a working parent to pick them up.

Glen Ridge Library is wifi, although the walls in this almost 90-year-old building are too thick to send a strong signal outside of the building.

Any item borrowed from any public or academic library throughout the entire state of New Jersey can be returned to Glen Ridge Library and it will be returned to its home library, including Montclair & Bloomfield.

If anyone has additional questions, please visit the Library or call me at 973-748-5482.

John Sitnik, Library Director

Posted by John Sitnik | September 13, 2006 12:55 PM
 

What does the GRAA do with its revenue? Obviously there's the cost of jerseys/t-shirts, but that can't be much.

Posted by Biltmore | September 13, 2006 1:07 PM
 

I general my biggest concern with everything the town does relating to construction is the HUGE amounts of money that it costs, and the bad job that gets done to often. In many cases projects cost two to three the amount that a private person doing their homework would pay. Can anybody explain why the costs are always so exuberant?

Since I have been in town (eight years), Carteret field has been dug up twice. Both time residents were insured that the problems of a horrible field condition would be solved. I am not sure how much money was spent and what contractors were hired for the job, but in my eyes the contractors flunked in both cases. I know the state threw us some money for the second time but the town still had to come up with a substantial amount of tax payers money to finance the job (like spending $10 to get $1)

Posted by Wasting money | September 13, 2006 1:25 PM
 

I attended the meeting yesterday, and even though I still feel turf is a waste of money, I understand the current field conditions are a serious problem and a solution must be found.

In my eyes it appeared the town did not do their homework, or is unwilling to share all the details, in the turf or any other part of the bond. Mayor CB is quick to invite everybody to come to town hall and speak with him about these issues, however Carl, I have a job and no time to visit you every time do not appear to be doing their job (mainly town council). Points like life expectancy, cost of maintenance/repairs, watering on hot days, cleaning etc. were not explained and justified. If the town does their homework financially justifying the installation of the turf based on a 20 year life expectancy (bond is for 20 years) should not be a problem. If it is than maybe it is a bad idea, and we should just continue to till, level and reseed the fields.

Has the town ever considered orchestrating the tilling, leveling and reseeding of the grass in house? It should not be a difficult a task with the help of some rental equipment and a truckload of underpaid temps, without involving any outside contractor

Posted by stop outsourcing | September 13, 2006 1:30 PM
 

Another bit of Library information: Public libraries in New Jersey (and all over) have been in the forefront of cost savings for municipalities for more than 40 years by sharing books and other materials, long before shared services became a popular buzzword among elected officials and taxpayers.

Glen Ridge Library doesn't buy 12 copies of a bestseller- there's not enough money or space- but does borrow multiple copies from other libraries regularly. The Library obtains multiple copies of books for about a dozen reading clubs & book discussion groups in town.

Libraries in Essex County also share books and other items through the ReBL program. And 150 public libraries participate in the Open Borrowing program, sponsored by library consortia in Bergen, Essex, Middlesex, Monmouth, Morris, Passaic, Somerset, Sussex, Union and Warren counties. This project and offer 10 million items for loan, with just one library card.

Incidently, neither Montclair nor Bloomfield belong to the Open Borrowing network, so Glen Ridge does have something to offer that our bigger neighbors don't.

John Sitnik

Posted by John Sitnik | September 13, 2006 1:35 PM
 

87,835 people visited the library in 2005. But the point here is that not ONE of them was Richard Moriarity!

Posted by It's all about him. | September 13, 2006 1:36 PM
 

Less than 4% school funding by the state. WOW! I know the average income in GR is almost 150K per household, but can anybody tell me what the median income range is? In a town with 2500 households, 100 households (not unlikely on GR) pulling over $1M per year really mess the average up.

Posted by less than 4% | September 13, 2006 1:37 PM
 

Has the town, or a group of residents every considered filling suit against the state regarding the low unfair level of school funding? Don’t tell me it cannot be done, because this little fact did not seem to bother Abbott when they filled. Are there no retired lawyers or practicing lawyers in town that could assist in this matter for free to better the entire community?

Posted by state school funding of GR | September 13, 2006 1:39 PM
 

In response to Mr. Moriarty's comment about not using the library and ridding from the town...

Sorry for your lack of interest in your own town's library and your lack of reading skills. It's a shame that athletic fields go before educational resources for our children.
Let me guess, you went to college strictly for athletic purposes, not for educational, and therefore you do not know a library's purpose in regards to education.

Posted by grres2 | September 13, 2006 1:43 PM
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Ridge,_New_Jersey

Posted by GR stats | September 13, 2006 2:05 PM
 

"Richard Moriarity -- to emphasize the relative importance of the playing fields -- mentioned that he'd been in the library only twice in all his years in town..."

"What we become depends on what we read after all of the professors have finished with us. The greatest university of all is a collection of books."
-Thomas Carlyle

Posted by bloomfieldmom | September 13, 2006 2:20 PM
 

Sounds to me like GR needs to make more fields to accomodate the athletes .. so maybe buying some homes and knocking them down to build more fields?

Or what about switching to other less land extensive sports: biking, roller skating, dancing (can be competitive),walking, power walking,
gymnastics.

Kinda scary..trash the library? Personally I always enjoy the little surprises I come across when I visit the library and roam the shelves. Maybe our athletes would enjoy reading biographies of sports figures or how sports has evolved over time? Or is an athlete who reads an oxymoron?


Posted by candide | September 13, 2006 2:21 PM
 

I think Astroturf is a really good idea. That way we can have kids suffer Achilles Tendon, ACL, and MCL injuries much earlier in their lives.

What's wrong with playing on freaking grass. Kids have been playing football on this stuff for decades and its been more than fine, now all of a sudden kids need Astroturf?

Posted by My Name is Tyler Durden | September 13, 2006 2:36 PM
 

The kids don't need astroturf; it's theose parents who live vicariously through their children's (real or imagined) athletic stardom who "need" astroturf.

Posted by bloomfieldmom | September 13, 2006 2:49 PM
 

I'm embarrassed for people who put sports before books. Sports may help some people get into college but the rest is about books.

Posted by Line Item | September 13, 2006 3:12 PM
 

OMG--the GRAA collects $250,000 a year in revenue! And it's a volunteer organization? So they pay out for league fees and t-shirts? Where is the rest of this money?

Posted by godlikeingoal | September 13, 2006 3:19 PM
 

Thank you for informing Richard about the library sharing services.
I visit the library 2-3 a month and I think its a great service. Then again, reading is still important to me (more important than astro-turf). Who are these people kidding? These kids aren't going to USC, Ohio State, or Miami on football scholarships.

Posted by Nicole | September 13, 2006 3:24 PM
 

Oh my God! What about the children?

Posted by Will somebody please think of the children! | September 13, 2006 3:33 PM
 

State School Funding in GR: "Has the town, or a group of residents every considered filling suit against the state regarding the low unfair level of school funding? Don’t tell me it cannot be done, because this little fact did not seem to bother Abbott when they filled. Are there no retired lawyers or practicing lawyers in town that could assist in this matter for free to better the entire community?"

As a new lawyer in GR and a public policy person, I have often wondered why this hasn't or isn't being done. I'd say it's because we don't have a group like the Education Law Center backing us. If you look at the Tax Trauma Index, which was in The Star Ledger on July 30, 2006, Maplewood, Montclair, and South Orange are similar with homeowner income, home value and tax bills. Maybe these towns could band together for a class action lawsuit against the State. If the Abbott case has merit, then this one does too.

Posted by don't want to say right now | September 13, 2006 3:48 PM
 

The Rich Moriarity comments are being totally taken out of context. He started off by saying he fully supports the bond in its entirety, including the Library. He went on to state how shocked he is that the fields are such a lightning rod and was surprised that no one is questioning a $1 million plus expenditure for the Library. He also brought up that no one is questioning a $550,000 expenditure for a building at the Town Yard. It's really cheap to twist his words to what you are all saying.

Posted by Volunteer | September 13, 2006 3:48 PM
 

Gotta love it when literacy and education takes a backseat to sports (again).

Posted by Pork Roll | September 13, 2006 3:49 PM
 

I want to know:
1. How long will the field last?

2. What, if any, cost savings are there for installing the turf. Are the maintainence costs really lower?

3. Why GRAA can't come up with some of the money. Both of my kids participate and even though the fees for some sports are outrageous compared with other nearby towns, I still wouldn't argue with a higher fee if it's going to improve the fields.

But let's make those who are using the fields pick up some of the cost.

Posted by Maolis Maven | September 13, 2006 3:52 PM
 

I say give Richard Moriarity some tests on classic literature and then laugh at him derisively.

Posted by Pique A Mousse | September 13, 2006 5:02 PM
 

The GRAA must be destroyed

Posted by The man who rides alone | September 13, 2006 5:03 PM
 

With regard to "don'twanttosayrightnow"'s comments on a class action lawsuit over the school funding formula, I can tell you that such a suit was filled several years ago by a group called AMID (Association of Middle Income Districts). I don't have all the specifics right at hand, but the suit was thrown out because districts like ours, with high academic performance, can't demonstrate that harm has been done to our students. (This is not my idea, this is the court's idea.) The real battle over school funding is being fought right now in Trenton, and the stakes are enormous. We (the BOE) are working hard on this and have just started sending the school community the Emailnets that we receive from one of our advocacy groups, the Garden State Coalition of Schools. Anyone can contact me at eginsburg@glenridg.org for further information.
Betsy Ginsburg
President, Glen Ridge BOE

Posted by Betsy Ginsburg | September 13, 2006 5:28 PM
 

Why is no one thinking of the children? The children!

Posted by What about the children! | September 13, 2006 6:04 PM
 

Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy little pieces of Astro-turf cut it in the shape of a sole, and then super-glue it to the athelete's sneakers?

(Just kidding!)

Posted by Astroturfeet | September 13, 2006 6:10 PM
 

Everyone who doesn't live in Glen Ridge, go away because you do not know the actual reason for Astroturf. We need astroturf because as of now, we play in dust. The middle of Hurrel Field and Carteret park blind the players as they play. Everyone here not from GR thinks that GR needs turf because we want our kids to become "stars". Astroturf doesn't turn into dust, last I heard. It is a solution to the dust. If you are not from GR, no one cares about your opinion on GR matters. If we wanted Bloomfield advice, we would have asked for instead of succeeding in the 1800's.

 

You tell 'em, Penguins. How could people not from GR understand our unique predicament. We are forced to play on grass. GRASS, people! Oh, it makes me cry to think about it. So all of you non-GR people, go sit in your cozy libraries and don't post here anymore until you know what it's like to play sports on natural turf.

Now where did I put my hankie.

 

I am a Glen Ridge resident who is tired of hearing about this assinine dispute. It would seem that all of us may not have "succeeded", and could use a little more time in the library. What is the purpose of pursuing this quest. Do we need world class playing fields? I think our children would do just as well with a nicely grown patch of grass. Why is this the only answer? Do we need to appease the few, because surely the masses are not calling for this. Or, do we just need to keep up with the Jones'? Let's face facts, most of the better athletes in towns like ours are recruited by some private school (i.e. Delbarton, Don Bosco, St. Joe's) before they see the inside of their home town high school. Lastly, I thought the name was "Carteret Park". When was the last time you went to a park that was covered in astroturf?

Posted by Malick Kelly | September 13, 2006 8:29 PM
 

Wasting Money,
Carteret has had drainage issues since the day it was built, because of where it is located. After the EPA remediated the site and built a new field, they came back twice to try and resolve them. After the EPA refused to come back a 3rd time, the town went in and they were somewhat more successful. While there are still drainage issues, they are not the problem, the problem is overuse.

Outsourcing,
No need for the snarky tone.

We have had a number of presentations to the public about the proposed bond, culminating with a 4-hour drop-in information session at the GR Senior/Community Center last Wednesday from 5:30pm to 9:30pm. I was there, along with members of our staff, a number of Councilpersons, and independent experts on turf fields and grass fields.

Last night was a hearing, and it went for three hours, and in spite of the fact it was a hearing, I answered many questions. One person, who was well into their 6th minute (of a 3 minute limit) started to ask additional questions, and rather than be unfair to the people who had stuck to their 3 minutes, I invited the questioner to meet with me, or call me, or email me, or come down to town hall. In fact, I have been answering many emails all week, including many today from folks who were there last night and had additional thoughts or questions, or ran out of time.

If we (actually the Council, I don't get a vote) were to vote for the turf proposal, it would be bonded for 10 years, not 20. The expected life of the top is 10 years, and for the base is 20 years (and we would probably require some sort of bonded guarantee to that effect), so theoretically, it could be bonded for 15, but the feeling of the Council was that a 10-year bond made more sense, and I agree.

You should also remember that municipalities are highly regulated, and that we are unionized, and we don’t have some of the options regarding underpaid temps that a business might. Besides, as I said above, the problem is overuse. When the fields get new sod, they look great, they just don’t hold up very long.

Posted by Carl Bergmanson | September 13, 2006 8:45 PM
 

Malick Kelly says, "I think our children would do just as well with a nicely grown patch of grass. Why is this the only answer? Do we need to appease the few, because surely the masses are not calling for this. Or, do we just need to keep up with the Jones'? Let's face facts, most of the better athletes in towns like ours are recruited by some private school (i.e. Delbarton, Don Bosco, St. Joe's) before they see the inside of their home town high school."

Beautifully put! I have lived in this town for 13 years and I love it, but I am sick to death of this "put athleticism above everything else" mentality.

Posted by Midland Avenue Mom | September 13, 2006 9:29 PM
 

I want to play kickball on a field of crushed beer bottle glass. It sounds crunchy when you run.

Posted by I like the glass | September 13, 2006 10:35 PM
 

Think creatively, people! You can solve the library vs. athletic field issue very simply. Instead of burning the books, shred them finely and treat the shredded material with a sealant. Coat the field with the fluffy, plasticized remains of those useless books and pursue your gridiron dreams in earnest. Hooray!

Posted by appletony | September 13, 2006 10:41 PM
 

Carl, I beg to differ on the issue of Carteret Park - you say it is "overused." This park is USED during the school year, by lacrosse and soccer teams. Yet, someone chose to put up a fence and close it up all summer, with the convoluted idea that it would allow the grass to grow and let it be fresh and new for this new school year. Yes, but as soon as the fences were pulled back, it went back to being a mud pit. So, that was worth keeping everyone off the field all summer? What a joke.

Posted by Miffy | September 13, 2006 11:05 PM
 

My son went to the Ashley's soccer camp at Brookdale Park this summer ... which took place on the artificial turf on the field there by the northeast corner of the park. Sure, it looks nice, but my son said it was extremely hot to the touch on a regular summer day, and not a pleasant place to play - the heat radiates up to the kids on the field. And we want to pay 2 mil for this to avoid a few muddy spots? I'm a supporter of the GRAA, as my son is involved in their activities, but I don't think fake turf is the answer. How about some simple maintenance and the acceptance that nature won't always provide a perfect field.

Posted by Pete Moe | September 13, 2006 11:12 PM
 

We are all in a "Library" as we type. I love books, but for research....... I'll race my internet research with your trip to the library anyday......and then there is the gas.......jeez louise

Posted by Rich Cecere | September 13, 2006 11:19 PM
 

Not for nothing, but I played on a dirt/grass field when I was young and I don't seem any worse for wear. I think it is a joke and I can't believe what towns/taxpayers (not just GR) pay for this stuff, it's unnecessary.

Posted by old fashioned | September 13, 2006 11:53 PM
 

"if the sports parents want their fields turfed, they should raise the money themselves"

Not a bad idea.

Posted by walleroo | September 14, 2006 12:57 AM
 

Miffy,
That "mud-bowl" is the reason the council is considering putting turf at Carteret, the grass won't hold up to the heavy use.

We tried an experiment this summer with hydro-seeding the field, and the field was closed to give the grass a chance to grow, I'm not sure why you seem to think that is unreasonable. Part of the problem is that the only time the field is not heavily scheduled is the summer (well, also the winter), which is not a great growing season for grass, it would be much better to put in new grass in the spring or fall, but closing the field then is very problematic.

Pete, you’re right that artificial turf does get hotter than grass, and that is something the council will have to consider, especially at Carteret. Neither one of the fields gets a lot of scheduled play in the summer, but Carteret is a park and is used all through the summer. Of course, if we have to close the field to sod it every other summer, that's a problem too. This isn’t about maintenance, it’s about more use than the field can bear and remain in “good” condition.

This really comes down to four choices, or some combination of them:

1. Reduce the amount of program.
2. Move some of the program somewhere else (there are not a lot of somewhere elses available to us, but we continue to pursue them).
3. Change to a more durable playing surface.
4. Continue to do what we’ve been doing and accept that we will often have poor playing surfaces and frequent field closures for new sod.

Posted by Carl Bergmanson | September 14, 2006 1:30 AM
 

Hmmm...Where does all that GRAA money go to? I've pondered that very question more often than not. You can't tell me that their spending $250,000 a year on t-shirts, shorts and socks and referees! I think an audit of GRAA funds is long overdue and the GRAA should be helping financially with the maintenance of the grass fields even if it means raising fees. I do not support astroturfing fields simply because it is not good for the environment and would create the same heating effect that a parking lot would. Not at all appealing for a neighborhood park.To alleviate overuse, how about demanding more equitable time on our Essex County Park fields aka Brookdale Park? Didn't our exorbitant taxes help fund those new fields? Should a private enterprise be entitled to use these fields more than the public that paid for them? I'm sure the GRAA could come up with the field use fees if necessary with some of that $250,000. It's not perfect, but few things in life are. To those of you taking cheap shots at Mr. Moriarity, GROW UP! It's easy to take a small comment out of context and twist it around. Very immature and unproductive. How about coming up with some real solutions. For the record I support the library, but think the costs for many parts of the bond could and should be reduced.

Posted by graamom | September 14, 2006 10:10 AM
 

Lessons we are teaching our children in this debate:

1. Value athletics above all else, even libraries

2. You need the best equipment and even astroturf to have fun

3. If folks can't afford the property taxes to live in our town, then they should leave

4. We as parents will pay any expense for your material happiness

I will continue to try to teach my kids the exact opposite of all these.

Posted by Concerned Forest Avenue Dad | September 14, 2006 11:27 AM
 

I don't understand why no one is discussing putting fieldturf on ONE field, seeing how it goes, and then making a decision to turf the other field a few years from now. Furthermore, I would like the town to have the GRAA raise 1/2 the money for ONE field and I would gladly pony up via my taxes for the other 1/2. Why do we have to do 2 at once?

Also -- great point in an earlier post -- they're called Carteret PARK, and Hurrell FIELD, let's keep in mind the intended usage for these two locations.

Posted by SouthsideGlenRidger | September 14, 2006 11:38 AM
 

I would imagine that the cost of building them separately at two different times will be much higher than having both done at once. But if the ultimate decision is to build one and not the second, then I think there would be a great benefit to overhauling Hell Field....I mean Hurrell Field! We pay Beverly Hills taxes and have inner-city facilities, we need to do this.

Posted by ByeByeBooks | September 14, 2006 11:43 AM
 

Carl wrote the choices are:
2. Move some of the program somewhere else (there are not a lot of somewhere elses available to us, but we continue to pursue them).
3. Change to a more durable playing surface.
4. Continue to do what we’ve been doing and accept that we will often have poor playing surfaces and frequent field closures for new sod.>>

Why NOT reduce the amount of program?

If GRAA finds it necessary to proliferate the number of sports offerings, for every age and every season, then make user fees commensurate with the use. Once those fees go up, parents will suddenly realize that pre-K lacrosse is not so necessary.

Posted by Does Every 4-Year Old Need to Play Soccer? | September 14, 2006 12:05 PM
 

Carl wrote the choices are:
2. Move some of the program somewhere else (there are not a lot of somewhere elses available to us, but we continue to pursue them).
3. Change to a more durable playing surface.
4. Continue to do what we’ve been doing and accept that we will often have poor playing surfaces and frequent field closures for new sod.>>

Why NOT reduce the amount of program?

If GRAA finds it necessary to proliferate the number of sports offerings, for every age and every season, then make user fees commensurate with the use. Once those fees go up, parents will suddenly realize that pre-K lacrosse is not so necessary.

Posted by Does Every 4-Year Old Need to Play Soccer? | September 14, 2006 12:05 PM
 

Carl wrote the choices are:
2. Move some of the program somewhere else (there are not a lot of somewhere elses available to us, but we continue to pursue them).
3. Change to a more durable playing surface.
4. Continue to do what we’ve been doing and accept that we will often have poor playing surfaces and frequent field closures for new sod.>>

Why NOT reduce the amount of program?

If GRAA finds it necessary to proliferate the number of sports offerings, for every age and every season, then make user fees commensurate with the use. Once those fees go up, parents will suddenly realize that pre-K lacrosse is not so necessary.

Posted by Does Every 4-Year Old Need to Play Soccer? | September 14, 2006 12:05 PM
 

That's a great idea: Make sports so expensive that only the rich can afford to use the public fields. Only a Glen-Ridger could have come up with that one.

Sports are good for kids. Not only because of obesity, diabetes and so forth, but because they prepare kids for life. (Yes, I know, but it's corny, but it's also true.) They teach kids how to work on a team, deal with competition, and get good at something. This is a value that many communities share. Does it get out of hand? Sometimes. But that doesn't make it the evil some posters here would have us believe. One reason the fields are overused is because the sports programs have been successful in attracting kids. This is a good thing. Kids who forty years ago wouldn't have played any sports are now fitting in on town teams and enjoying the benefits of teams sports.

To talk about how we're teaching our kids to value athletics over libraries is horse puckey. We're talking about whether it makes sense for itty bitty GR to have its own library--in this age of the Internet--or piggyback on those of towns a few blocks away. That and all the wistful talk about the days when we played on grass and that was good enough for us has a utopian head in the sand quality to it. Since those days the world's population has doubled or tripled. A bit of astroturf might actually be a practical idea.

Posted by walleroo | September 14, 2006 12:48 PM
 

Why is the library the first thing that is offered up? What do you propose to do with that portion of the building once the books are removed? As I recall, the library has already undergone a renovation to make it handicap accessible and safe for all to use. Do we just forget why that money was spent and say that we can do better in Montclair? I think that's foolish. The costs involved with the ongoing renovations will largely be a one time cost. At least I would assume that they will last throughout your lifetime. The field as I understand will need new turf every ten years. To me the two just don't equate.

So I have an idea. Leave the books alone. Sharpen your pencils and try again. Hey, you know what? The answer might just be in one of those books that many are so quick to send to points elsewhere.

Posted by Malick Kelly | September 14, 2006 1:15 PM
 

OK, I am not a legal expert and I will be going with common sense on this one. A lot of effort is spent on complaining to CB and barking up the wrong trees. I am sure the GRAA intention is to get turf on only one field approved (Hurrell) by asking for two fields. They can be the heroes by accepting one field that is thrown to them to meet in the middle. Enough of that!

We all know State school funding is the main problem of our town high property tax rate. Betsy stated that the "Association of Middle Income Districts" tried to file suit against the state once and failed because no harm to students was shown/proven. "don't want to say right now" mentions that there might be legal support from town residents for a suit against the State, especially when several towns with high stress levels get together.

If we look at the Star Ledger list of tax stressed towns, how hard can it be to drum up support from residents of these stressed out town to file a class action law suit against the State. Items like health related issues due to tax stress, lack of funds to properly maintain municipal building and field, sport injuries resulting from field conditions, income discrimination, some amendment and whatever we can think from a residents stand point to build our case. If we can get this case into court and proof the stress level and discrepancies of property taxes between town, you will sooner or later come back to the true issue for the high tax rates, which is lack of State school funding.

Nobody can tell me that it is fair that GR residents pay two or three times the amount of taxes compared to other towns in the State, and if somebody can win lawsuits by spilling hot coffee in their lap while driving or drying their dog in the microwave, we as a highly educated town like Glen Ridge should surely be able to come up with an intelligent approach to our problem.

Any feedback from intelligent people on this train of thoughts are welcome.

Posted by Stop bickering and lets start working together | September 14, 2006 3:19 PM
 

I think i agree with Rich Moriarty. He seems to know what he's talking about unlike some people. WE are thinking about the children by saying we need turf fields. Do you want us children to get hurt since we dont have proper fields to play on. We need turf and this is the time to get it. And by the way rich actually didnt go to college to play sports but he actually went to get an education, and he didn't play any sports while there. He is sticking up for his chldren and the athletic kids of the town. Kids these days use school libraries and the internet so if they need information they can just go there. WE NEED TO GET CARTERET AND HURELL BOTH TURFED NOW.

Posted by kids | September 14, 2006 5:34 PM
 

I think i agree with Rich Moriarty. He seems to know what hes talking about unlike some people. WE are thinking about the children by saying we need turf fields. Do you want us children to get hurt since we dont have proper fields to play on. We need turf and this is the time to get it. And by the way rich actually didnt go to college to play sports but he actually went to get an education, and he didn't play any sports while there. He is sticking up for his chldren and the athletic kids of the town. WE NEED TO GET CARTERET AND HURELL BOTH TURFED NOW.

Posted by kids | September 14, 2006 5:35 PM
 

I think i agree with Rich Moriarty. He seems to know what hes talking about unlike some people. WE are thinking about the children by saying we need turf fields. Do you want us children to get hurt since we dont have proper fields to play on. We need turf and this is the time to get it. And by the way rich actually didnt go to college to play sports but he actually went to get an education, and he didn't play any sports while there. He is sticking up for his chldren and the athletic kids of the town. WE NEED TO GET CARTERET AND HURELL BOTH TURFED NOW.

Posted by kids | September 14, 2006 5:36 PM
 

I think i agree with Rich Moriarty. He seems to know what hes talking about unlike some people. WE are thinking about the children by saying we need turf fields. Do you want us children to get hurt since we dont have proper fields to play on. We need turf and this is the time to get it. And by the way rich actually didnt go to college to play sports but he actually went to get an education, and he didn't play any sports while there. He is sticking up for his chldren and the athletic kids of the town. WE NEED TO GET CARTERET AND HURELL BOTH TURFED NOW.

Posted by kids | September 14, 2006 5:39 PM
 

I think i agree with Rich Moriarty. He seems to know what hes talking about unlike some people. WE are thinking about the children by saying we need turf fields. Do you want us children to get hurt since we dont have proper fields to play on. We need turf and this is the time to get it. And by the way rich actually didnt go to college to play sports but he actually went to get an education, and he didn't play any sports while there. He is sticking up for his chldren and the athletic kids of the town. WE NEED TO GET CARTERET AND HURELL BOTH TURFED NOW.

Posted by kids | September 14, 2006 5:40 PM
 

I think i agree with Rich Moriarty. He seems to know what hes talking about unlike some people. WE are thinking about the children by saying we need turf fields. Do you want us children to get hurt since we dont have proper fields to play on. We need turf and this is the time to get it. And by the way rich actually didnt go to college to play sports but he actually went to get an education, and he didn't play any sports while there. He is sticking up for his chldren and the athletic kids of the town. WE NEED TO GET CARTERET AND HURELL BOTH TURFED NOW.

Posted by kids | September 14, 2006 5:48 PM
 

I think i agree with Rich Moriarty. He seems to know what hes talking about unlike some people. WE are thinking about the children by saying we need turf fields. Do you want us children to get hurt since we dont have proper fields to play on. We need turf and this is the time to get it. And by the way rich actually didnt go to college to play sports but he actually went to get an education, and he didn't play any sports while there. He is sticking up for his chldren and the athletic kids of the town. WE NEED TO GET CARTERET AND HURELL BOTH TURFED NOW.

Posted by kids | September 14, 2006 5:49 PM
 

I think i agree with Rich Moriarty. He seems to know what hes talking about unlike some people. WE are thinking about the children by saying we need turf fields. Do you want us children to get hurt since we dont have proper fields to play on. We need turf and this is the time to get it. And by the way rich actually didnt go to college to play sports but he actually went to get an education, and he didn't play any sports while there. He is sticking up for his chldren and the athletic kids of the town. WE NEED TO GET CARTERET AND HURELL BOTH TURFED NOW.

Posted by kids | September 14, 2006 5:54 PM
 

I think i agree with Rich Moriarty. He seems to know what hes talking about unlike some people. WE are thinking about the children by saying we need turf fields. Do you want us children to get hurt since we dont have proper fields to play on. We need turf and this is the time to get it. And by the way rich actually didnt go to college to play sports but he actually went to get an education, and he didn't play any sports while there. He is sticking up for his chldren and the athletic kids of the town. WE NEED TO GET CARTERET AND HURELL BOTH TURFED NOW.

Posted by kids | September 14, 2006 5:55 PM
 

a. What is the cost of paying off the bonds?

b. What are the anticipated maintenance costs of the turf field over this time period? Remember that the general public as well as organized teams will use these fields.

c. What are the costs associated with maintaining the present grass fields over the Bond period? Include the costs of resodding and replanting entire fields periodically.

The real cost of turfing the fields is

a+b-c.

Can anyone supply that number?

Posted by Bitpusher | September 14, 2006 6:45 PM
 

Is that the real cost? That doesn't take into account the fact that some of us may not want the field "turfed".

When your kid is in High School, do you want him (I am using the male form because it is easier)to respond to his cellphone call saying "come on down to Carteret for a pickup game of soccer!". That is what has been happening all year. I don't believe that it will happen with artificial turf.

First, I do believe that once the artificial turf is in, it will be protected. By protected, I mean that the kids will not be allowed to play on it. Even if it is not protected, it is so hot in the summer sun that it is unbearable.

I see this as the GRAA once again stating that they are doing everything for the kids, but really trying to do the best for the ones they will choose to do travelling. It has been very interesting to watch those that have been rejected year in and year out by the GRAA for travelling teams make Captain in their senior year at GRHS.

I would like to see the GRAA realign their priorities before they increase my taxes. I would like the priority to be that those kids who sign up to play travelling, get to play. If the GRAA really wants it to be coaches choice, then they should state that up front and not ask the rest of us to pay for the fields.

Posted by Anonymous | September 14, 2006 11:11 PM
 

I don't think that coaches are purposefully excluding kids from playing travelling. There are rules set up by the different sports leagues as to how many kids get to be on a travel team. This is not GRAA's doings. As long as there are enough coaches and kids to field a team, kids can play. I do agree that perhaps we start organized and travel teams a bit young and rejection at such a young age can turn kids off from sports for life. They think they can't compete with the "travel kids". I've been on both sides of this issue with my children and I agree that it is a tough thing. It has opened up opportunities for the child that was "left out' of sports to experience other things that she enjoys. There is a lesson in everything.

Posted by GRmom | September 15, 2006 12:13 AM
 

we paid 200$ to the GRAA for our son to play lacrosse a number of years ago. this was our experience; he would be taught no skills, we would spend our weekends travinging to far away towns, where he might get played for a couple of minutes at most at the end of the game IF the team was way ahead. he stood there all suited up while other kids played and played and played. this experience did nothing for him. it most certainly did not build this character. i felt that we were there to basicaally pay for the ref. i wondered if he had had the same experience with soccer that he had with t ball (craig smith who was a wonderful coach) what kind of player he could have been. he never really got the chance.

Posted by julia | September 15, 2006 7:38 AM
 

GRAA coaches of course first pick their own children, whether they are good or not - if each traveling team for example is allowed 12 players, and there are 3 coaches, then in reality there are only 9 spots open. Their children automatically get in. So if you want your kid to get on a team, and actually get some playing time, then you will have to coach - sad but true. And if 13 kids show up for try-outs, only one WILL be turned away and not necesarrily because of his ability, but more because of who he is and if the coaches know his parents.

Posted by GoawayGRAA | September 15, 2006 8:07 AM
 

Interesting how "Kids" had to post theirs 9 times! Also the capital letters at the end of the post demanding turf NOW are just another example of the gimme attitude that some parents in this town allow. Teach your children to be grateful for all that they DO have.

Posted by Hilary | September 15, 2006 8:11 AM
 

I think "kids" just doesn't realize Baristanet takes a long time to update when you post. HEY BUDDY, WAIT FOR THE PAGE TO UPDATE.

As far as travelling goes, of course it's a cruel world. The coaches are reprehensible. A friend held her kid out of a summer league because the flyer said specifically not to tryout if you weren't available for the whole summer season (understandable) but when she ran into the coach and the coach asked why Kid X wasn't playing the coach said "oh that doesn't matter, you should have told me, we'll make a space" She was pretty upset about this attitude. Never mind the kid who won't get playing time due to a "part-timer".

She didn't have her kid play.

Posted by SHOCKED! | September 16, 2006 6:53 AM
 

Cant we all just get along. No wonder there is no peace in the world. How about negotiating? GRAA adjust its program to meet the growing population(ie reduce the number programs it currently offers). How about turfing just the Hurrell field, after all it is the designated High School sports field?
Does everybody always think that what is good for them is good for all? I think the people that live by and use Carteret Park have been through enough nonsense. It seems that many of those in favor of turfing the fields would not have look out their windows and see green plastic carpeting with white lines drawn all over it.

Posted by gr mom | September 16, 2006 8:53 AM
 

Hey, howcome when you want to make a home improvement to the exterior of your house you have to get permission from the historical society, and putting yards and yards of green plastic on public fields doesn't need an ok from these guys.
I dont think turf was around when Glen Ridge was founded back in the 1800s-was it?

Posted by where's the historical society | September 16, 2006 9:38 AM
 

fuck yall. GR needs turf. So Montclair bitches stay the fuck out of it. Why do you feel the need to comment on our issues, stay in your crappy town! Besides how many times how would you like to be laughed at ever home game? I have fucked up my ankle too many times on Carteret because of the fucking baseball field on the damn lacrosse field. As a former athlete of GRHS turf would be a great idea. Were u guys protesting the Mounties turf field?

Posted by PC's suck (not talking about computers) | September 16, 2006 9:02 PM
 

PC's suck (not talking about computers),
Your point is well taken here. Academics should take precedence over atheletics. I totally agree with you.

Posted by alambra | September 16, 2006 9:46 PM
 

fuck u ugly bitch. our acdemics rule unlike monclair we can spend some money on athletics

Posted by PC's suck (not talking about computers) | September 17, 2006 12:51 AM
 

"When your kid is in High School, do you want him (I am using the male form because it is easier)"

"him" is easier to type than "her"

GOOD ONE!

Posted by The male form is easier????????????? | September 17, 2006 2:19 AM
 

PLEASE LOOK AT PG 45 STAR LEDGER SUNDAY! (RE: ARTIFICIAL TURF IN NUTLEY)
PARAGRAPH 13 STATES:

A PAIR OF GRANTS FROM THE STATE AND COUNTY TOTALLING $1 MILLION, CASH MATERIAL AND LABOR DONATIONS FROM AROUND THE TOWN MADE THIS PROJECT POSSIBLE!!!!!!!!

Taxpayers were not hit with this one!

 

"PC's suck (not talking about computers)',

Your language and attitude are out of place here. Do you think the swearing gives your rant more gravitas?

Get out of this blog.

Posted by Iceman | September 17, 2006 11:03 AM
 

Clearly PC's post is an indication that we spend too much money on sports and not enough on education. We should double the amount needed for the library and build a new library on Hurrell.

Posted by rude children suck | September 17, 2006 8:22 PM
 

Cute. May I ask are you from Glen Ridge rude children suck? If you are not please shut the fuck up. Built your library see if anyone goes to it. No one goes to the one you got now so why are we going to make it bigger? May ask are you suggesting that our football/baseball field to build this library. May I ask you what are you and your fellow "baristas" problem with athletics? Maybe you do have your priorities strait and athletics have no place in school. Possible, could it be you and your fellow barista’s where all picked on in high school by the jocks and this your payback? Take out on Glen Ridge; you’re so called “Jock Town”. In any event you have to realize that not many high scholars use the Glen Ridge Library, where as a large majority of the student body do play sports. Be reasonable. Can you barista’s just take one on the chin go back to your eight dollar coffee’s and leave Glen Ridge to Glen Ridge.

Posted by PC's suck (not talking about computers) | September 17, 2006 10:22 PM
 

"In any event you have to realize that not many high scholars use the Glen Ridge Library, where as a large majority of the student body do play sports."

Yes there are not many "high scholars" among Glen Ridge's High Scoolers.

Posted by ROFLMAO at YOU | September 17, 2006 10:30 PM
 

The Barista runs this site. We are not Baristas and neither are you.

Posted by To the "high scholar" from Glen Ridge | September 17, 2006 10:35 PM
 

I dont want to be a baristas. I dont want to be ugly know it all liberal siting around drink crappy overpriced coffee looking for spelling mistakes. Bunghole

Posted by PC's suck (not talking about computers) | September 18, 2006 2:24 AM
 

I dont want to be a baristas. I dont want to be a ugly know it all liberal siting around drink crappy overpriced coffee looking for spelling mistakes. Bunghole

Posted by PC's suck (not talking about computers) | September 18, 2006 2:24 AM
 

There's no possibility of your becoming a Barista, as you don't rite so gudd.

Posted by You don't rite gudd enuf | September 18, 2006 6:06 AM
 

For the record: There are several homeowners who live next to Carteret Park who support the decision on putting in a Turf field. And the reason why is simple, WE NEED IT! The current conditions have been the same for many years. When it rains, it’s a mud pit, when it is dry, it’s a dust bowl. Let’s face it the field is used all the time, and the only way to handle the town needs, is with a synthetic field. Perfect example, once again this summer they did not let anyone on it for improvements… Nothing has changed! Put in the turf and let our children and residents play. For those who have not been on a turf field in 20 years, go to any nearby town and try it out, they are fantastic! I travel to other fields often, and I have seen many well made turf surfaces. As for fences it is something that needs to be addressed, the park needs to be made available to residents when it is not being used for GRAA programs, or for HS sports programs.

As for the Library the improvements are needed, and everyone should visit it more with their children! I am sure that none of us want to burn books.

Posted by sports fan | September 26, 2006 3:02 PM
 

My husband and I are residents on Carteret street and our livin