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Treescape Trauma In Bloomfield

Wednesday, September 20, 2006

treedown%2Ctreetogo.PNG

Bloomfield "Dan" tells us that beautiful mature trees in his neighborhood are under attack to make way for new curbs. Today, many of the trees were cut down, drastically changing the street's leafy look. Dan wonders if there isn't a better way.

For the past few weeks, Bloomfield town workers (DPW) and the utility companies have been marking up the streets and sidewalks in the Brookdale section to indicate the location of gas lines, water lines, etc. Today I learned that they are cutting down the massive trees that give our neighborhood character and beauty because the trees were breaking the sidewalks. Nine trees are coming down on Parkview. The street looks naked.
First of all, this seems like an enormous waste of money. Second, there has to be a better way of dealing with this situation. Certainly other towns with pretty tree-lined streets are not cutting down all of their trees to prevent the sidewalks from cracking!

We hear that other residents are feeling the tree trauma, and that they got little warning, if any, about the change of scenery. One woman tells us it seemed like a bomb had hit the neighborhood.

We went to see the massacred trees on Brookdale Road, and Parkside; it wasn't a pretty sight. Paul Lasek, Township Engineer, explained that the town's tree forester, Stephen Schuckman, found that many of the old trees along Brookdale are ailing, with bad root systems. After a nasty tree-falling-on-house incident there, Schuckman inspected the area. He recommended getting rid of the old sick trees to avoid more accidents....It's a preventative measure, in the interest of public safety, Lasek said.

longnarrowroot.jpg

On Parkview, the road resurfacing and new curb installation apparently revealed more unhealthy trees, which have been marked with a red dot for the mulch machine. Lasek did say that most of the trees that were taken down will be replaced with nursery stock trees as part of the fall and spring planting program... And then we can wait another 80 years...
- top photo, Brookdale Road.

Posted by Annette Batson on September 20, 2006 4:07 PM
Email this story |
 

Or, you can wait like they do in Montclair.

One of those "nice" massive trees came down on an elderly couple's car early in the summer.

The people who ran out of their house to help said they "hesitated to even go near the car "because they were sure the couple was dead, i.e. the car was flattened.

None of the trees on Montclair's Park Street were ever marked, and even after the accident they still weren't revisited.

Be thankful you've got someone who cares about both the trees and your lives!

Posted by treehugger2 | September 20, 2006 4:53 PM
 

If they need to come down, and a certified arborist has examined them. Then by all means they should come down in a controlled way.

At least they will be replaced. Montclair's trees were NOT replaced.

Stephen Schuckman is a certified arborist and is Certified by the International Society of Arboriculture (ISA)

What Is an ISA Certified Arborist?
An arborist by definition is an individual who is trained in the art and science of planting, caring for, and maintaining individual trees. ISA Arborist Certification is a non-governmental, voluntary process by which individuals can document their expertise and knowledge. It is an internal, self-regulating device administered by the International Society of Arboriculture. Certification provides a measurable assessment of an individual's knowledge and competence required to provide proper tree care, but cannot guarantee performance. ISA Certified Arborists are individuals who have achieved a level of knowledge in the art and science of tree care through experience and passing a comprehensive examination developed by some of the nation's leading experts on tree care. ISA Certified Arborists must also continue their education to maintain their certification.

An arborist is a specialist in the care of individual trees. Arborists are knowledgeable about the needs of trees and are trained and equipped to provide proper care. Hiring an arborist is a decision that should not be taken lightly. Proper tree care is an investment that can lead to substantial returns. Well cared-for trees are attractive and can add considerable value to your property. Poorly maintained trees can be a significant liability. Pruning or removing trees, especially large trees, can be dangerous work. Tree work should only be done by those trained and equipped to work safely in trees.

Removal - Although tree removal is a last resort, there are circumstances when it is necessary. An arborist can help decide whether or not a tree should be removed. Arborists have the skills and equipment to safely and efficiently remove trees. Removal is recommended when the tree:

Is dead or dying.
Is considered irreparably hazardous.
Is causing an obstruction that is impossible to correct through pruning.
Is crowding and causing harm to other trees.
Is to be replaced by a more suitable specimen.
Should be removed to allow for new construction.


Posted by We feel your pain, your trees are like part of the family | September 20, 2006 5:13 PM
 

It cost Montclair at least $600,000 to remove trees that were damaged or felled by the "2006 microburst" and that doesn't include stump grinding or replacement trees.

As a matter of fact, stump removal is still going on.

Who knows if the Montclair trees will be replaced, though they've been asked Community Services Parks and Shade Trees Division has not answered or posted this information on the town website. What the town website does say is "potential replanting locations are identified during all inspections"

I was told by a subcontractor taking down trees in Montclair that Montclair would have lost a lot fewer trees had a CERTIFIED tree expert inspoected and pre-emptively taken down the diseased and damged ones before the microburst took them down.

The town would have saved a lot of money, and the towns people a couple of houses and garages!

The Bloomfield folks should to be happy Schuckman is taking care of their diseased/damaged trees! In the long run their tree resources will benefit accordingly!

Posted by 2006 microburst = $600,000+ out of Montclair's pocket | September 20, 2006 5:27 PM
 

I can tell you that I would really be upset if I owned a home on this street and the town came and uglied it up.

Posted by katie | September 20, 2006 5:35 PM
 

I hope they come and check out the treeon our curb next -- it doesn't look all that healthy, it has all of our cable, electric and phone wires running amongst its branches, and its roots are already well established in the sewer line and heading for the washing machine :) It is a brazen maple conspiracy, I say.

Posted by Conan the Grammarian | September 20, 2006 5:44 PM
 

Conan,

Did you call or e-mail Pam Walsh in the Mayor's office.
Email: Pammwalsh@hotmail.com

Phone (973) 680-4080

Pam will make sure that Stephen Schuckman is notified to check the tree in question out.

Good to have a Certified Arborist to do things right!


Posted by badd_patti | September 20, 2006 6:00 PM
 

katie,

which would you prefer...

The town takes down your diseased tree and plants a new one in it's stead and then comes back a prunes it when necessary.
The tree is small at first but within 5 years it's at least 25 feet tall.

The town listens to you and doesn't take the tree down and the next time a storm hits your family is visiting and parks their car in front of your house.

The car is hit and totalled and some of your family members are tragically injured.

Your choice.

Posted by It's your choice, APPEARANCE or SAFETY | September 20, 2006 6:06 PM
 

Nothing lasts forever, including beautiful old shade trees that lend character to an established neighborhood. The only question is, when will they come down? At a time of our choosing, or Mother Nature's?

Appearances can be deceiving to the untrained eye. A stately old tree may look fine to you, but if the appointed expert says its ailing, I'd suffer thru the arboreal nakedness comforted by the peace of mind provided by the knowledge that a massive limb - or the entire tree - no longer threatened crushing death or injury to homes and people.

Coincidentally, I just had a service here today to trim back all the overgrown trees and hedges that the previous owners allowed to crowd the house and overhead utility lines. It doesn't quite have the same woodsy feel now, and my decapitated Rose of Sharon, which was wildy out of control and over twice the height it should have been, looks like the victim of a chainsaw massacre (which it was, actually). But, now I have less worries about clogged gutters, downed wires, and other hassles I don't need.

As somebody once said, if it's gotta go, it's gotta go.

Posted by Pork Roll | September 20, 2006 6:54 PM
 

I was told the controversy is the trees were being sacrificed for cobblestone curbing. Which is crazy..trees are so beneficial.

Trees offer shade and oxygen (with global warming, we need the oxygen) and, large trees drink lots of water. So homeowners may found wetter basements or soggier yards after rainstorms if they start knocking down old growth trees. Sometimes trees can be cut back and start to thrive. I hope they are VERY conservative in evaluating a tree.

Also, cut trees don't have to be turned into mulch. See this article about a fellow who uses "urban logs" to make furniture. In fact the trees taken down to build a school were converted into furniture for the school.
http://www.citilogs.com/
http://www.metropolismag.com/html/content_0402/ob/ob04_0402.html

Posted by candide | September 20, 2006 7:18 PM
 

Take a look at our "beautiful" trees on Park street in Montclair. How about the 12 foot "tree" that's been sawed in half at Gordenhurst & Park in order to act as an anchor for the telephone pole next to it?

For a town that prides itself on its trees, it's a shame to see what PSE&G (and Verizon?) have done to them over the years. Really, if all the telephone poles & their mass of wires get the right of way, then just cut down all the older & taller curb trees once and for all. It would certainly improve the view over the freak show we've got now...when massive 100+ year old trees start looking like abstract art, they ought to come down. Or maybe, a grand street like Park ought to have the power lines running through the back yards...but that's another issue. What do you think Ridgewood Avenue would look like with poles, lines, and trees like we've got on Park Street?

Posted by Trees Lounge | September 20, 2006 8:08 PM
 

Who were you told by?

Was it the town engineer or the arborist?


Maybe you should call the fellow who turns logs into furniture and give him the Mayor's number if you want to save the wood.

Posted by Volunteer yourself don't just criticiize | September 20, 2006 8:10 PM
 

Shuckman dosn't have a clue... he's a fraud.

Posted by treerunner | September 20, 2006 8:51 PM
 

You must have looked up the wrong arborist as his name is

Schuckman

not

Shuckman

Posted by treerunner wants the town defoliated | September 20, 2006 8:56 PM
 

RESOLUTION
FORESTRY CONSULTATION- Blloomfield Town Council minutes 3/20/06

http://www.bloomfieldtwpnj.com/documents/M032006.doc

WHEREAS, it is the opinion of the Mayor and Township Council of the Township of Bloomfield, New Jersey that an agreement be entered into for a part-time Forestry Consultation Services for the year 2006; and
WHEREAS, sealed proposal were received by the Purchasing Committee on Monday, February 27, 2006 for said consultation services to provided one day per week; and
WHEREAS, First Mountain Arboriculture, LLC Stephen Schuckman proprietor, 37 Oak Grove Road, Caldwell, NJ 07006 submitted a satisfactory proposal to provide a part-time Forestry consultation Services at a cost of $75.00 per hour; and
WHEREAS, sufficient funding is available within the Shade Tree operating budget.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED by the Township Council of the Township of Bloomfield New Jersey that a contract be awarded on a month to month basis to First Mountain Arboriculture, LLC, Stephen Schuckman proprietor to provide the above services at a cost of $75.00 per hour.
Roll call vote showed the following: (Ms.) Maly, Messrs. Tamborini, (Ms.) Ritchings, Hamilton, (Ms.) Spychala, (Ms.) Dunigan, and McCarthy voting "aye".
At this time, Councilwoman Ritchings stated that she would like to make a request that the first order of business for this matter be to fix the problem on Willard Avenue, before he gets involved in anything else, thank you.
Mayor McCarthy stated that the request is so noted, and he knows this, because he saw Township Engineer Paul Lasek writing this down.
Councilman Hamilton moved and Councilwoman Spychala seconded the adoption of the following resolution:

Posted by aye to the Arborist | September 20, 2006 9:04 PM
 

From the Montclair Adult School

Brooklyn Botanic Garden [530018]

The Brooklyn Botanic Garden is a floral gem nestled in the heart of Brooklyn, but few know its secrets. While one can wander and enjoy this garden's beauty, Stephen Schuckman, horticulturist and arborist, will help us to explore it extensively, looking at the design, botany, and horticulture. This is not a tour; it is an adventure for the serious lover of gardens. We will move fast and talk lots, as there is so much to see. As a plus, the gardens should be ablaze in autumn color. Wear comfortable shoes, dress for the weather, and bring a bag lunch.
Saturday, 9:00 AM - 4:00 PM; 1 session on October 14, 2006

Posted by Lets explore | September 20, 2006 9:05 PM
 

Stephen Schuckman grew up in Quincy, Illinois, on the banks of the Mississippi River, where he developed an early love for nature. He received bachelor degrees in biology and chemistry from Quincy College, and a Masters degree in botany from the University of Missouri-Columbia. After working at a large garden center, where he became interested in horticulture, he served as Superintendent of Parks for Montclair from 1993-1998, before becoming the first Horticultural Manager at Van Vleck House & Gardens in June, 1998. In January 2001 Stephen and his wife Victoria purchased Chelsea Square in Upper Montclair.

Stephen served on the steering committee that eventually helped form Montclair's BID, and served as at-large board member. Since 2002 he has served as acting president of the Upper Montclair Business Association.

He is also the consulting arborist for the Borough of Glen Ridge. Steve is Vice President of MEDC, and also serves as representative of the Upper Montclair business district.

Posted by FYI | September 20, 2006 9:11 PM
 

Dear FYI,

Steve is also an ISA Certified Arborist, and has recently passed the exams for a CTE designation by the New Jersey DEP. CTE, or Certified Tree Expert, is one of the highest honors in arboriculture in New Jersey. It requires passing a grueling test on all phases of tree culture.

Too bad Montclair doesn't have a person like Steve! But, oh wait! According to the manager "we don't need" a Certified Arborist.

Posted by treehugger2 | September 20, 2006 9:27 PM
 

We lost two trees on our block near Broad & Watchung after the microburst. (Both were damaged and later removed.) While I was heartbroken, so far I've been pleased with the response I've gotten from the township about making sure the trees will be replanted sooner rather than later.

Bloomfield has a "plant a tree" program, and anyone can request to have a tree planted curbside (www.bloomfieldtwpnj.com/departments.htm). Both Steve Schuckman, (973-680-4009), whom I believe is in on Tuesdays, and Bob Schaelfer (sp?), who works full-time in public works (973-680-4127), have returned my phone calls and been quite pleasant and knowledgeable. At least so far--the trees haven't been replanted yet. But I'm hopeful.

For what it's worth, both Bloomfield and Glen Ridge (but not Montclair) are part of an Arbor Day program called "Tree City USA" that has certain requirements for tree care.

(And yes, if you're wondering, my daughter hugs trees.)

Posted by solar-powered | September 20, 2006 9:39 PM
 

I guess all Montclair really needs is a large shredder to grind up those trees and the ones that will come down in the next storm because of the lack of tree maint.

Oh that's right, I remember, the town refused to give the ground up trees to the townsfolk to use as mulch. The town preferred to give the mulch to landscapers so that it could be sold back to the town residents for a profit.

Is there something wrong here?

Trees aren't maintained --->they have to be removed because of disease or damage --->landscapers are hired for lots of $$$ to remove the trees and shred or cart them away --->landscapers are then allowed to take mulch away

Did Montclair pay the landscaper to cart away the mulch that it's residents wanted to use themselves?

Not only does Montclair need a certified arborist it needs an auditor.

Posted by RFP:: Auditor NEEDED for Town of Montclair | September 20, 2006 9:41 PM
 

I'm confused...the trees are being removed to accomodate street upgrades and a new water system, or...the trees have been deemed unhealthy and dangerous by a certified arborist?

Posted by Cheaplazymom | September 20, 2006 9:45 PM
 

"Bloomfield has a "plant a tree" program, and anyone can request to have a tree planted curbside "

When we requested that a tree be planted in front of out house the town of Bloomfield:

1. Let us pick the type we wanted from 5 approved types.

2. let us request 2 trees because the neighbor on whose property a large swamp maple had been taken down said they didn't want a replacement planted curbside.

3. let us draw a diagram and planted the trees exactly where we asked - we specified positioning so that as the trees grew they would not engage wires.

4. came back the next year and removed the supports.

5. has come back each year to prune and check the trees

Posted by Bloomfield lives up to it's name | September 20, 2006 9:49 PM
 

It appears that after a nasty tree-falling-on-house incident in Brookdale, the certified arborist, Schuckman inspected the areas trees.

He recommended getting rid of the old sick trees to avoid more accidents....It's a preventative measure, in the interest of public safety.

In the meantime new curbs were going to be installed on Parkview and the road resurfacing and new curb installation apparently revealed more unhealthy trees.

Posted by restating the story | September 20, 2006 9:56 PM
 

Last year Montclair decided that Bradford Pear trees had to come down. Nothing appeared to be wrong with the trees, but Montclairs "own" "expert" decided they needed to come down.

So they hired a company and said "You decide what has to come down, and we'll pay you for every one."

Yes, Montclair needs an auditor. And some common sense.

Posted by Anonymous | September 20, 2006 10:48 PM
 

We can't spend money to hire nor retain an Aborist, but we can propose wasting 750K of taxpayer money on "wayfaring" signs .

Montclair's City Council have their collective heads up their ass.

Posted by Ben Dover | September 21, 2006 1:00 AM
 

"Montclair's City Council have their collective heads up their ass."

Yes, I agree and it's actually been diagnosed by a local doctor as well.

The prognosis is that we'll have to pay to have them removed.

Posted by Anonymous | September 21, 2006 2:21 AM
 

What's the difference between an arborist and a forester? Because I know that last year Bloomfield had a part time forester, but his name escapes me. Very nice man.

Posted by boredhousewife | September 21, 2006 7:01 AM
 

Typically a staff forester has a BS degree in forestry. That's quite a few more courses than it takes to be a certified arborist.

The again, Stephen Schuckman has an undergrad degree in biology and a masters in botany along with major certifications as an arborist and NJ Certified Tree Expert.

Here's the Society of American Foresters website- the certification page

http://www.safnet.org/certifiedforester/becoming/index.cfm

the ISA certification page

http://www.isa-arbor.com/certification/certification.aspx

There is also a NJ Certified Tree Expert exam and certification and some foresters specialize in Urban forestry.

All of these are a far cry from a landscaper with no certification.

Have we been told what the qualifications of the Sipervisor of the Montclair Parks and Shade Trees Department are?


Posted by Hiding #45 | September 21, 2006 8:10 AM
 

Bloomfield : choose trees with root systems not apt to tear up sidewalks.

Posted by tree selection | September 21, 2006 8:27 AM
 

What a shame. These trees should be saved at all costs. In my humble opinion, trees make the neighborhood what it is just as much as houses and neighbors.

Posted by jimmy229oz | September 21, 2006 8:30 AM
 

I live just off of Parkview and while it looks horrible right now, I am hopeful about the alleged new plantings. What I am curious about is whether we, as taxpayers, are entitled to the mulch and firewood being carted off by ATL contractors (we essentially paid for the wood, right?). They are busy little beavers, collecting it all in their trucks every night...

Posted by superhousewife | September 21, 2006 10:13 AM
 

Now that the microburst has already culled the weak trees in Montclair, finding a certified arborist to assess our stock of trees isn't quite so urgent as it was before. What's the rush about closing the barn door? The animals have already escaped.

Posted by walleroo | September 21, 2006 10:31 AM
 

As a resident of the Brookdale section, I can understand getting rid sick trees. I want to see new, healthy ones replace them. What irks me is that perfectly fine cubs are being torn out to be replaced by belgianblock, which is not cheap. I don't need new curbs and I don't need new condos on Broad across from Friendly's. I would rather see the township spend money in luring new and profitable businesses to fill the plethora of empty commercial space that are all over the township.

Posted by chubbycheeker | September 21, 2006 10:34 AM
 

While we're on the topic who can recommend a good tree service? It's sadly time for the big maple behind my house to come down.
And be replaced!

Posted by Drob | September 21, 2006 10:42 AM
 

september 20 - I think I would like to join the tour of the Brooklyn Botanic Gardens, which I've always wanted to see. Do we just show up at a designated location by 9am? How do we rendezvous?

Thanks!

Posted by todd | September 21, 2006 10:56 AM
 

September 20 - never mind. I gues I just need to read better! Montclair Adult school - got it!

Posted by todd | September 21, 2006 11:00 AM
 

Drob,

I would recommend Friendly Tree Service of West Orange. I don't have their number handy, but they are in the yellow pages.

They were just over to my house yesterday for several hours for some extensive trimming work, and they also removed a dead tree. They were very diligent and careful.

I dealt with John, one of the two owners (the other is his brother Tony), who impressed me as being very professional and knowledgable. They were quick too. I agreed to schedule the work when John came by to do the estimate on Tuesday, and he called me yesterday afteroon to say that a crew was just finishing up nearby, and asked if I would like them to stop over. They were done by 5:30 PM.

Their estimate was a bit higher than two other tree services I spoke with, but I felt most comfortable with John's professional demeanor and how he explained things. I would definitely use them again.

Posted by Pork Roll | September 21, 2006 11:06 AM
 

Pork Roll,

How much was the certified arborist you must certainly have hired to help you through this confusing, complex and difficult process?

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 11:12 AM
 

(that post is not directed at Pork Roll for the ironically challenged)

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 11:23 AM
 

Regarding the microburst and the remaining trees:

Unfortunately, the microburst didn't do a very good job of professionally pruning our trees. Many trees are standing that are in dire need of further pruning or removal.

Indeed, in Edgemont Park I took pictures of two trees that have limbs that appear to me will fall at any time. These limbs are substantial, and weigh hundreds of pounds. They are cracked and will come down. It's just a question of when. Hopefully no one will be under them when they fall.

Other trees in Edgemont contain no leaf bearing branches and are just trunks. They should be cut down.

Other trees have already been pruned, but pruned in an unprofessional, unsatisfactory way so that, for example, instead of an entire 5" dead branch being cut back to the trunk it's cut half way -- makes no sense.

Which is not to say that only the Town park, Edgemont, has problems. Problems are widespread, and are certainly on private property.

I don't believe there is any cost associated with asking a competent tree service in for an estimate.

If a homeowner is in doubt, and it's a public tree call the appropriate department. If it's YOUR tree, call a tree service.

Posted by carya | September 21, 2006 11:25 AM
 

"I took pictures of two trees that have limbs that appear to me will fall at any time. These limbs are substantial, and weigh hundreds of pounds. They are cracked and will come down. It's just a question of when."

Wouldn't it take some kind of certification to make such firm and expert statements?

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 11:32 AM
 

Dear ROC,

Anyone with eyes can make this judgement of THESE trees! They are hanging on "by a hair." Meet me at the park and I'll show them to you. I'll bet you dinner you'll agree!

By the way, a Certified Tree Expert pointed out not only these trees, but a half dozen others (that the microburst took down)that should have been taken down BEFORE the microburst.

Posted by carya | September 21, 2006 11:42 AM
 

"Anyone with eyes can make this judgement of THESE trees!"

I agree cary. Wholeheartedly. Really.

"By the way, a Certified Tree Expert pointed out not only these trees, but a half dozen others (that the microburst took down)that should have been taken down BEFORE the microburst."

So he saw them BEFORE they were damaged and he knew? I hope he informed the township. Did he?

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 11:53 AM
 

RoC,

You know he did! Of course he did!

People are forever complaining about Kevin Ward and his lack of response.

Same song yesterday.

Posted by Same song yesterday | September 21, 2006 12:02 PM
 

Dear ROC,

This was in late November of 2005. At that time, I, and three others gave a "full blown" presentation to the Town Council. Included were about 70 pictures taken in Edgemont.

Subsequently, the town decided to appoint a sub commitee of the Environmental Commission to look into a shade tree ordinance/commission.

Contact me off line for further info, or if you'd like to volunteer. We could use the help!

Posted by carya | September 21, 2006 12:04 PM
 

ROC,

When you look up and see a branch that is hanging and is no longer fully attached to a tree, don't you think that the logical thought might be that it's eventually going to fall down on the ground and that it is dangerous and might hurt someone?

I guess you don't think that way but reasonable people do.

Posted by A Reasonable person would... | September 21, 2006 12:10 PM
 

I guess my question was more specific.

Did you inform the township about the specific dangerous trees which "should have been taken down BEFORE the microburst."

If the township was informed about the imminent danger of specific trees which could injure people in a wind storm by an expert and nothing was done, then this is surely a scandal, right?

Can you post the report listing the dangerous trees?

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 12:11 PM
 

Reasonable,

You miss my point entirely. I absolutely think a reasonable person can make such judgements thus making less necessary the need for contracted "certified arborists" and "urban foresters" to be added to the township staff at taxpayer expense.

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 12:14 PM
 

I did not hire an expert to specifically evaluate each and every tree. That's the town's job.

It's not my responsibility to do so, nor was it my friend's job.

This was part of a presentation we gave to the council. The point was to show them that there was "work that needed to be done."

I gave them pictures.

I would be glad to email you, or anyone else who desires, a copy of the presentation. It's really "mom and apple pie" type stuff.

Don't you think we should be concentrating on the dangerous trees that are there TODAY, and what should be done TODAY, and not the dangerous trees that were there THEN?

P.S. I'm afraid you'll have to send me your email, as I've sent you mine, so that I can email you the word.doc containing the presentation. As to the pictures, email me and I'll go into detail.

Posted by carya | September 21, 2006 12:20 PM
 

ROC, your point doesn't prove that a tree expert is unnecessary only that the end-stages of damage, decay and sickness in trees is visible even to non-experts.

Posted by Krys O. | September 21, 2006 12:21 PM
 

This certainly a scandal!

Those trees should have been taken down before the microburst since the town had been fully informed.

Many many people have complained that Kevin Ward does not respond when they tell him about specific town trees need assistance.

This is a repetetive pattern and he treats the townsfolk with great distain.

What are his qualifications?

It was reported by the Montclair Times a while back that there were 3 Rutgers Certified Arborists on staff in Montclair.

Then it was found that Rutgers doesn't certify arborists and that there were no Montclair employees who were ISA Certified Arborists and that none were NJ certified Tree Experts either.

Was Kevin Ward one of the non-certified arborists that Joe Hartnett was talking about?

Posted by Scandalous treatment of trees by non-certified arborists in Montclair | September 21, 2006 12:28 PM
 

So cary when you said:

"By the way, a Certified Tree Expert pointed out not only these trees, but a half dozen others (that the microburst took down)that should have been taken down BEFORE the microburst."

You meant AFTER they were already fallen he told you they should have been removed? Well *I* can tell you that too! Is 20-20 hindsight a special course in arborist certification training?

It seems to me that "should have been taken down BEFORE the microburst." indicates that you and he knew these specific "half dozen" should come down as you said back in "November of 2005."

And yet you say, "It's not my responsibility to do so, nor was it my friend's job."

It's hard to make it out cary. If you knew there were six imminently dangerous trees ready to come down back in 05 couldn't you (out of community spirit) tell someone about the six trees?

Or (much mor elikely it seems) is it that on Nov 05 neither you nor he could predict those six would fall?

Sort of deflates the whole "if we had a certified arborist we could have prevented this" (paraphrase) argument fall apart, doesn't it?

I mean, if your expert friend looked and didn't predict those trees falling over, what makes you think an expert could do that in the future?

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 12:33 PM
 

I mangled a sentence:

Sort of deflates the whole "if we had a certified arborist we could have prevented this" (paraphrase) argument doesn't it?

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 12:36 PM
 

RoC,

I guess you'd rather pay when someone is severely injured or there's a loss of life.

If the town is insured for such things it will be easy for the insurance company to show that trees were not maintained and that a Certified Arborist or Certified Tree Expert was not contracted by the town and that non-certified town employees were running the show.

Funny- when I have electrical work done the town requires me to have a licensed Electrician, not some guy who is a clerk and does electrical in his spare time.

Posted by A Reasonable person would... | September 21, 2006 12:38 PM
 

Actually reasonable,

if you DO have a certified arborist expert on staff and a tree kills someone you are MORE likely to get sued successfully.

Ironinc and awful, but true.

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 12:42 PM
 

RoC,

Not only have you mangled a sentence but you mangled everything that Cary was saying.

As I read his post, he presented the dangers to the Town Council before the microburst and they chose not to act.

Posted by NOT Hiding in Baristaville #042 | September 21, 2006 12:46 PM
 

"if you DO have a certified arborist expert on staff and a tree kills someone you are MORE likely to get sued successfully."

Are you an attorney or do you pay one on TV?

Posted by A Reasonable person would... | September 21, 2006 12:53 PM
 

pay = play

Posted by A Reasonable person would... | September 21, 2006 12:58 PM
 

Pork Roll,

How much was the certified arborist you must certainly have hired to help you through this confusing, complex and difficult process?

At lot less than the cost for the therapist I'm seeing now to help deal with the trauma of my denuded trees.

Oh, the humanity!!

(Or should that be, "treemanity"?)

 

I think it's arbority.

ROC,

Why do you assume that the process is "confusing, complex and difficult". I guess you never have service provider some to your house. I distinctly rmember you saying that you had an outhouse on your property.

I wonder how many other homes in Montclair don't have indoor plumbing.

Posted by NOT Hiding in Baristaville | September 21, 2006 1:04 PM
 

042,

Form cary's statements there are only a few possibilities.

1). He and the expert knew in 05 that those six trees were imminently dangerous and didn't tell anybody. I don't belive this because (from what I know of cary) he would never be so anti-community.

2. He and his expert friend DID tell someone about the six dangerous trees and the town ignored them. This is a serious charge (if true) and I'd like to see where the six trees are identified as imminently dangerous in the report.

3. He and the expert did not know the six would fall. Cary and others are just making a specious argument about prevention and using the micorburst to buttress their argument. The "if we had an arborist these trees would not have fallen" (to paraphrase) argument. This is what I think is likely. It is what is called demagoguery. I personally don't believe ANY experts could have prevented the microburst damage because it is such a freakish and powerful occurrence.

so, my money's on #3.

It's like global warming, hot summers and hurricanes. Remember last September? Everyone, and I mean everyone, was claiming the hot summer of 05 and all those hurricanes were "evidence" of global warming. Well, this year we have had a cooler than average summer and fewer than average number of hurricanes. Are those same voices citing this new "evidence"? Not so much.

Demagoguery.

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 1:14 PM
 

My money is on #2.

So now you choose to say that this is ALL LIES? And that concerned citizens are saying this in order to get power.

What power? Power over what?

Oh, I can answer that, Power over the rampant spending in Montclair and the low quality of the services received.

Isn't that what we all deserve and what the town government should be giving us?

Posted by NOT Hiding in Baristaville #042 | September 21, 2006 1:26 PM
 

"So now you choose to say that this is ALL LIES?"

No. I don't know which (1, 2, or 3). I asked cary. Perhaps he will answer, perhaps not.

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 1:29 PM
 

"Demagoguery."

I take it that some other personality of your's typed the quote above.


from merrima webster:
"Main Entry: dem·a·gogue
Variant(s): also dem·a·gog /'de-m&-"gäg/
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek dEmagOgos, from dEmos people (perhaps akin to Greek daiesthai to divide) + agOgos leading, from agein to lead -- more at TIDE, AGENT
1 : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power"

So false claims don't equal lies in your world?


Posted by NOT Hiding in Baristaville #042 | September 21, 2006 1:50 PM
 

my lady and i get nude and eat tree parts in our pad. trees communicate with their love nodes to the solar crystal vision.

Posted by star child | September 21, 2006 1:53 PM
 

"So false claims don't equal lies in your world?"

No they don't. A lie is willful and knowing, a false claim may or may not be. So a lie is a subset of false claim.

(honestly, the state of education these days!)

Perhaps an example would help:

If (hypothetically of course) I were to say "042 is an intelligent person" and later we discover you are dumb as fence post, then I have made a "false claim" but did not "lie".

See?

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 2:00 PM
 

Right on Star Child, right on. Cherish that galactic love my brother.

Posted by sonic love potion | September 21, 2006 2:06 PM
 

I moved to West Orange last year. My property contained over 30 trees, some of which hung dangerously over my home and driveway, as well as my powerlines, which were strung haphazardly in between several trees. I noticed several trees were bare, a telltale sign that the tree could already be dead.

Early in the Spring, I contacted several tree removal services, and asked them to evaluate my property. I had decided to build an inground pool, and some of the trees would have to be removed. The service that sent over a CTE gave me a proposal to remove apprx. 10-15 trees, all of them either diseased, dead or dangerous to my home. Because West Orange has an Ordinance against unauthorized tree removal, I had to wait until the W.O. Forester came to my home to O.K. the work.

When we talked via phone, the Forester informed me that only three living trees could be removed, but any amount of dead, diseased or dangerous trees could be removed. During my permit process, the tree removal company I had chosen to do this job contacted me with an opportunity to start the job early. We started the job without the Permit, and were shutdown at considerable expense to me, by an ill mannered neighbor who complained to the Township.

A trip to my property by the Forester produced a Permit that allowed me to cut even more trees than I ever planned on removing. Now, almost $9,000 poorer, my property is safer, and I have learned a little bit about trees. Sometimes even when they look fine, trees can be diseased inside, making them dangerous when standing by homes or roads. Lots of folks will get on me for this, but if you own a property and have beautiful trees that you love, have them checked by an expert. It may cost money, but it will cost more if they fall where you couldn't anticipate.

I still haven't put in my pool, and may never do it. But my home and driveway are safe, for now.

Posted by Lee Blair | September 21, 2006 2:06 PM
 

shut your pie hole

Posted by Anonymous | September 21, 2006 2:06 PM
 

RoC,

I hope your kids are reading this so they can learn what to say when you catch them in a "false claim"

Posted by NOT Hiding in Baristaville #042 | September 21, 2006 2:11 PM
 

I belive that the imposition of tree ordinances, "historic tree" preservation and township control of privately owned tress is *exactly* what cary advocates. The hiring of a "certified arborist" is phase one, the urban forester is phase 2 and the ordinances are phase 3.

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 2:11 PM
 

42,

Much parental cogitation is spent determining the difference between "false claim" and "lie". You can be sure.

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 2:13 PM
 

ROC seems to be arguing with himself again. Carya talks about a presentation given to the town council in November, 2005 and ROC can't figure out by himself that this was before the microburst.He wants further information from carya who is willing to send it to him but we know ROC will never give up his true email. ROC probably hasn't been close to a tree in a long time. You have to go outside to do that.

Posted by boiling point | September 21, 2006 2:16 PM
 

How do you claim to know what cary advocates.

Why don't you ask him?

Posted by ROC = Remsen on crack | September 21, 2006 2:16 PM
 

"Why don't you ask him?"

I did. That's how I know.

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 2:25 PM
 

Lee, why do you call them "ill mannered neighbors" when you were doing work without the proper permits?

One of the issues our neighborhood is facing is people doing work (any type of work) without the proper permits. And then getting pissy when they are caught. I'm sorry, we may not always agree with the rules and regulations that our respective towns ask us to comply with, but that is to keep people from butchering their property (and thereby affecting their neighbor's quality of life IMO).

So if I follow your example and wanted to put an addition on my house, started the permit process, but decided to go ahead with the work w/o the permit it would be okay?

Personally, if you didn't follow the rules, then you deserved to be penalized.

However, I do agree with your statement advising all to get their trees checked. We had to have a beautiful old oak removed, also at considerable expense, but had it gone down, it would have taken all the wires, pole and back end of our house down with it. And yes, it was taken down by a licensed tree removal company.

 

"I did. That's how I know."

Did you ask him off-line? You didn't ask him here.

Posted by You have no clue | September 21, 2006 2:31 PM
 

Listen folks;

All the other stuff aside, ROC has the equation correct. I'm not happy that my neighbor was able to shut me down, an act that cost me a lot of money. I believed that my name on the deed gave me the right to shape and mold my property as I saw fit. But we don't live in a vacuum; we have neighbors.

Unfortunately, not every neighbor is neighborly. Mine arbitrarily called the Township, even after she saw me with other folks examining and marking trees for removal. She was convinced I was going to destroy something she cherished, and worked to stop me. It didn't matter that it was my property.

As it turns out, not only am I a better steward of the land than she imagined, but the previous owners had committed several ecological crimes on my property, which she had viewed as benign. I learned two things from this debacle. 1) Ordinances work both ways: they protect the neighborhood and the property owner. 2) Work to know your neighbors, then try to understand them. I told my neighbor when we first met of my desire to put in a pool. She obviously didn't believe me, or she thought she was smarter than me. When she illegally planted bamboo on my property and I let it go, that only emboldened her. I guess she thought she could control my property. She was wrong.

Posted by Lee Blair | September 21, 2006 2:31 PM
 

Lee: It's a shame your neighbor couldn't come to you first with her complaints/concerns rather than call the township. People like her make me cringe.

Posted by Miss Martta | September 21, 2006 2:36 PM
 

Why should she? He was the one having the work done illegally.

Posted by Cringing now | September 21, 2006 2:42 PM
 

"When she illegally planted bamboo on my property and I let it go, that only emboldened her."

Two Questions for Lee :

1) Why did you let it go ?

2) Generally speaking, at what point does a neighborly encroachment (ex. , planting bamboo) become legally irreversible ? Anyone know ?

Posted by Curious | September 21, 2006 2:47 PM
 

We live in a world ever less able to compromise, accommodate and be tolerant.

People want to "protect" the trees on the property of others to force their value system (which of course is the best one) on to their cretin neighbors.

Nobody wants to "work it out" anymore. Our laws and ordinances should work to foster one-on-one compromise and accommodation rather that the other way around.

But then you might not get your way, right? People might choose to live in McMansions, or paint their house purple or put cement shuffleboard courts in their yards.

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 3:29 PM
 

I let the bamboo grow to "work it out". I could tell she didn't want me to put in a pool. Never mind the fact that she had an inground pool of her own. And while I did not have my permit in my hand, the process had begun. A permit was a fait accompli, and as I mentioned, a visit from the Forester worked against my neighbor's desires.

I would like to believe I am tolerant. I rant quite a bit on this site and in other places on the good of tolerance. I endure the same neighbor's cat on my property, as well as other nuisance infractions, in order to "work it out". Unfortunately, many of us want it, and we want it our way. I think that's when my tolerance ends and I become intolerant.

I don't like that side of me, but apparently I need it to protect myself. So now, I use the law to remove intolerance in my midst, wherever I can. One interesting sidenote. When the Forester visited my property, he noted that many of the trees there were of the "Junk" variety, and not native to this area. Some are invasive pests, and should not be planted in this neck of the woods. Others were simply weed trees, allowed to grow wild in my mini-forest. So, in addition to fulfilling my personal needs, my tree removal is in fact, good for the environment. The bamboo is not native to this area, and it is highly invasive. It has however, put up a near impenetrable barrier between the offending neighbor and me. "Working this out" maybe the best thing for both of us.

Posted by Lee Blair | September 21, 2006 3:51 PM
 

This is very interesting. I was told almost 2 years ago that the dead trees and tree limbs would be removed on my street and they have yet to be addressed. Of course, that was by a different forester, arborist or whatever. I guess he's history. Chubbycheeker...I'm with you. Those apts will be hideous; this town really doesn't know what they're doing.

Posted by Brookdale Mom | September 21, 2006 3:59 PM
 

fyi, John Linson was the town's forester.

Posted by Brookdale Mom | September 21, 2006 4:12 PM
 

Lee, I consider you the tolerant one in your story.

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 21, 2006 4:13 PM
 

John Linson is also a Certified Arborist- certified by the ISA

Posted by Bloomfielder and Proud of It. | September 21, 2006 6:09 PM
 

ROC -

It's true this time around, but as you know, that is not always the case. I wish I understood more about the how's and why's surrounding my tolerance, or intolerance. Is it timing, diet or just the situation. I do see one thing for sure; as I have gotten older, it does seem easier to let things go. Whether that is weariness, or a state of grace, I don't know.

On a separate note, I believe John is our Forester, also. When he visited my property, I found him to be detail oriented, knowledgeable and a dedicated servant. He has cobbled together a profession by serving in multiple townships. This makes him extremely busy, which is why it took a little longer for my permit than I originally intended. Many towns don't seem to have the budget for this, so he serves more than one.

Having the trees on your property looked at is like having a real estate agent look at your home to assess its value. I have a Japanese Maple that I was going to remove, until I found out how much it is worth. Now, I wouldn't dream of getting rid of it. The value of your property can go up based on your plantings.

Posted by Lee Blair | September 21, 2006 7:00 PM
 

ROC:

You said:

"Actually reasonable,

if you DO have a certified arborist expert on staff and a tree kills someone you are MORE likely to get sued successfully.

Ironinc and awful, but true."

Wrong Bucko!

Actually, according to NJ State Law, if the town files a 5 year Urban Forestry Plan that's approved by the state, the town is ABSOLVED from liability in cases involving trees falling, etc.

Soooooo .... you've got it backwards!

For your further edification, Montclair is not only one of the few towns in the ENTIRE STATE that deliberately chose not to avail itself of this law, Montclair is one of the few towns in the entire state not to be named a Tree City, not to have a tree ordinance, and one of the few towns in the entire state without a professional, and yes, certified, arborist.

What makes Montclair so different? One of the few towns with an appointed board of ed, no voting on school budgets, town manager form of government, etc., etc.

Montclair seems to have to do everything different. And what does it get? Does it get the highest performing schools? No. But it does get no bid contracts, water bureaus that lose $500,000, crazy resolutions opposing free speech and the rights of citizens, screwed by vendors left and right and gets to have probably the highest taxes in the state!

Anybody tired of this? Anybody wish the electrions were THIS November?

Posted by Montclairlover | September 21, 2006 10:27 PM
 

Not quite.

You are speaking of the The New Jersey Tort Claims Act, N.J.S.A which places timeline limits on how long you have to file a lawsuit and places thresholds on the damages in order to sue. But it does not prevent lawsuits aganst towns. If you file a forestry plan then the actions of the forester or arborist are placed under the same conditions as ALL OTHER state employees. (Because the township is taking responsibility for the trees.)

So there is no "absolution" just some hoops to jump through.

http://www.marshalldennehey.com/CM/DefenseDigest/DefenseDigest338.asp

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 22, 2006 12:48 AM
 

So RoC,

you're saying that it's better NOT to have a certifed arborist
and
NOT to file a forestry plan
and
to NOT have thresholds placed on claimants on the damages in order to sue.

Please explain that train of thought, it seems fiscally irresponsible to me.

Posted by Why protect ourselves | September 22, 2006 2:25 AM
 

Roc,

Are you an environmental or other lawyer?

You seem to think you know more than just about ANYONE about EVERYTHING.

Scott, of MontclairTrees and Anderson Park fame is a CORE trained individual on these issues.

Maybe YOU can attend the CORE training, which is two days and which explains why you are WRONG.

On the other hand, maybe you can go to the training, which has probably been given for the last dozen years, and explain to the forrest service and the other attornies, as well as the several hundred arborists in attendance at the training and tell them why YOU'RE RIGHT and THEY'RE WRONG.

Did you ever stop and think maybe you don't know EVERYTHING?

And if you do know everything, why don't you DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR KNOWLEDGE?

Why don't you contribute to our well being? Run for office, for example? Or HOW ABOUT DOING SOMETHING TO MAKE THINGS BETTER?

Right now all you do is send off missives explaining how EVERYONE is wrong about EVERYTHING. Politics, science, you name it, ROC has the true knowledge, the rest of the world are idiots.

Give it a rest, ROC. We are not all your subjects, and we are not all stupid.

Posted by Treehugger too | September 22, 2006 7:09 AM
 

"you're saying that it's better NOT to have a certifed arborist"

No. I am saying that if a tree branch falls and we have no arborist it is an "Act of God" if we have an Arborist and the branch falls and that tree has been recently "inspected" it is an act of neglence.

I am not a lawyer but the claim that the The New Jersey Tort Claims Act, N.J.S.A would "absolve" us from lawsuits is (according the reading I did last night) not correct.

If you think I am wrong about that, why not post a link about it with a reference. I did to support my interpretation.

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 22, 2006 7:54 AM
 

And for the umpteenth time. This is not to say that trees don't need monitoring or maintenence, I just dont't think we need a "Certified Arborist" to do it. We seemed to have managed without one for nearly the whole history of Montclair.

Further, I think the "push" to get one is part of the whole desired plan of some to gain some public control of trees on private property for aesthetic reasons. The enforcement of "good" aesthetics being very popular these days.

Posted by Right of Center ™ | September 22, 2006 8:07 AM
 

Aesthetics is better then the opposite. Try driving around in NH of ME and see how many washing machines, refrigerators and rotting cars that come with the lack of zoning and rules.

Posted by jimmy229oz | September 22, 2006 8:46 AM
 

Congrats on knocking down your strawman, how proud you must be.

There is some reasonable border between rotting cars in the front yard and having to ask the town permission to cut down your own trees.

Posted by