Turf War Turns Nastier

What does "The people vote with their feet" mean? If those resident had no problem playing on these fields, why in god's name spend millions of dollars to put turf down? sounds like the council caved to the teeth-baring wishes of the graa.

If the town can somehow minimize usage of these fields, maybe turfing wouldn't be such a big issue, and maintaining the fields would be more manageable. Why is it that a town the size of Glen Ridge has to offer soccer, lacrosse, baseball, football etc. etc. to children from pre-k to 8th grade? I can understand offering these sports at the high school level but the usage of the fields could be cut by a third, at least, if some of the programs were cut for the younger children. We have to remember that we are a small community with limited funds -- Just an idea that I'm certain everyone will not agree with. I'm guessing the solution is not that simple.

Concerned-
How do you expect kids to succeed in sports at the high school level if they have no prior experience in them? What would our marching band sound like if we didn't give kids instruments until high school?

This is an issue where the turf is ground. Ground is what we walk on. I don't know what turf is. I would like toattend some of these meetings.

Just one more comment....

Carl Bergmanson does not deserve the disrespect shown to him by Mr. Grady or the council members at last night's meeting. He handled the situation quite honorably - like the gentleman that he is.

Pro-Turf
I didn't say ELIMINATE the programs - I said CUT BACK.
That's what it's all about - keeping things managable for a town the size of GR.

Pro-Turf
I didn't say ELIMINATE the programs - I said CUT BACK.
That's what it's all about - keeping things managable for a town the size of GR.

Yes, but cutting-back has a history of being discriminatory. Sports like lacrosse and field hockey are put on the back burner so that sports like football and baseball can thrive. This is where the Title IX problems stem at the college level (obviously a male/female issue as well). Elaborating on my comparison above, cutting back on sport programs might be like saying-- ok, well we support the flute and clarinet players, but we don't want the tuba and french horn players.

"Carl Bergmanson does not deserve the disrespect shown to him by Mr. Grady or the council members at last night's meeting. He handled the situation quite honorably - like the gentleman that he is."

Could not agree more!

pro-turf, if you think the town would borrow 3 million to buy new instruments for all band students, you're out of your mind. also, if a kid sucks at baseball, it doesn't matter what condition the field is in. i'm sure there are plenty of major leaguers who played on crappy fields growing up.

just do the football field for cripes sake, proclaim the south end park to be in the Historical area, thus, no phony grass.
sheesh, like all levels of politics, the one's that are to benefit get lost in the p-ing contest. let me add, that for an affluent town, this is a small luxury, next time i crawl down Ridgewood Ave at 35 mph, i'll feel a little sorry for the destitute living in their tudor homes, rubbing nickels together just to pay the day-labor to cut the grass...

Pro-Turf
It's about keeping things in proportion - it's about not being able to have everything you want and being reasonable about what this town can afford.

I really hate what this is doing to our town. And what kind of an example is it for the children? With passions running so high I can just imagine what kids in some households are overhearing...even when parents try to be discrete. What I am hearing is that there is no room for compromise, only the best will do and if you don’t get it people don’t care about you, and we are more important than everyone else. Not something I want to teach my children and no amount of good sportsmanship on the field instruction will counteract that.

There is a solution here. The council members all agree on everything except Carteret…and I imagine that a lot of compromise has already taken place on some of the other issues like town hall, the library, etc. Do the rest and wait on Carteret. If it costs a little more, so be it. It may not be in good shape but I have seen some of the fields kids in other, less privileged (blessed), towns play on, and maybe our teams need to know how to deal with challenges of terrain. This would give GRAA an opportunity to accumulate a nice financial contribution, provide some relief to field conditions, and still accommodate some of the challenges of the broader GR community. Don’t forget, with all of the kids in town and the garbage going on in Trenton, no one can be expecting the school budget to go down.

…and we send a good message to our children on how to live respectfully in a community.

Hiding- No, I would never expect that. But the town pays for music stands and music instructors, etc. Kids and their families are still paying for a lot of the equipment they need to play sports (much of which is quite expensive in itself). So why is giving them a quality area to use said equipment on such a tragedy? Sure there are people all over the country playing on dirt fields, but are you really trying to compare a town like Glen Ridge to a place like Harlem or North Philadelphia? What really irks me about this whole argument is that the people who are against the turfing can't decide on a concrete reason WHY they are against it. For some it's the money, for some it's the principle, for some (uninformend) it's the injuries, for some it's the aesthetics.

...and for some, like me and many of my neighbors it's all of the above. There are MANY reasons to be against the turf.

...and for some (me and many of my neighbors) it's all of the above! There are MANY reasons to be against the turf.

It is amazing how some of you find it so easy to mislead people about how things happen. Overall the meeting was good. People spoke that are for the turf bond and against, as it should be. As for the Mayor’s way of handling himself in the meeting, it was basically ridiculous. Mr. Mayor, let the counsel persons do there job, and let them have the opportunity to speak when they ask too. Control yourself!

My my my! Mr. Pro-Turf.
Aren't you one of the GR elite! Yes, places like Harlem and No. Philly do exist. (and produce some great athletes).

Very Concerned--

You wrote, "I really hate what this is doing to our town. And what kind of an example is it for the children?"

What's to worry about? What's it doing to our children? This is how democracy works. People in a free society have the right to disagree. In fact, this is how our society functions. It has worked for the last 200+ years. There is always tough discussion, contentious argument, as there should be. Use it as an opportunity to teach your children the wonders of a system that allows so many disparate folks to live in a town such as ours peacefully. In the end, turf or no, the process works. We can have faith in our electoral process. Oh, but wait! Our elected official has no say? That is curious. Why is that again? Maybe it's time to have another look at how we choose to be governed.

"disparate"? oh, as in, some like to only spend on themselves. got it

Question: do you get college credits for sexual assault? My coach said I did.

Concerned-- I do not consider myself "elite," as you claim. However, like it or not, Glen Ridge is not and will never be a slum or a ghetto. Harlem and North Philly are poor, crime ridden neighborhoods-- and yes, they may have dirt fields. In fact, one of the new anti-violence campains in Philadelphia is aimed at improving the conditions of their athletic facilities to get kids off the streets. QED.

Oscar, I couldn’t agree more that it is important for children to see democracy in action. What I take exception to is the vitriolic discourse. Tough discussion and contentious argument can take place in a civil and respectful manner. With young, impressionable minds the subject of this particular issue also matters. If it were over what kind of garage is needed to store the town’s equipment it would be a little different. I have no doubt that some children are hearing (and I meaning by that absorbing) that there are people who don’t care about their safety. It is too close too home. These are all people kids see on the streets, at church, on the fields, and even at their friend’s houses all the time. They are not abstract in children’s minds or in more distant places like Washington or even Trenton. I also don’t doubt that everyone involved in the discussion cares about children. They may find different ways to balance their views and concerns about the community but they all care and I think that is what children should hear. This is one entitlement with which children should be showered…they are cared about by their family, their school, and their community.

Sorry for the typos.

what do you mean by safety?

Jim Grady's comments to the Mayor were valid and while he may have come on strong it should be noted that he has been coaching our teams for years with none of his own children on the teams. He has volunteered his time and talents for no other reason than to help our children. He cares about our community and has put himself out there helping our kids and for what? No other reason than he loves working with our children and sharing his passion for sports. He should be commended for taking on the Mayor and calling him out. The mayors hidden agenda on this needs to be exposed for what it is. He is not entitled to steer the council meeting his direction for his benefit. Can we impeach our mayor?

Jim Grady's comments to the Mayor were valid and while he may have come on strong it should be noted that he has been coaching our teams for years with none of his own children on the teams. He has volunteered his time and talents for no other reason than to help our children. He cares about our community and has put himself out there helping our kids and for what? No other reason than he loves working with our children and sharing his passion for sports. He should be commended for taking on the Mayor and calling him out. The mayors hidden agenda on this needs to be exposed for what it is. He is not entitled to steer the council meeting his direction for his benefit. Can we impeach our mayor?

I meant safety in the context of assertions of dangerous field conditions.

You think the Turf War of '06 is bad. Wait till the Tax Reassessment of '07 goes down. When the town sends people into your home to count just how many bathrooms and other improvements have been made over the years. At least we can all come together on that one.

aid,
You are right, and I should have mentioned that about Jim Grady, when I last wrote. He has given his own personal time year after year (as others have) to help our town's sport programs. He is a great coach and person. He should only be thanked for his time and dedication to our towns growth in sports programs.

With 250K of spend able income per year and no accountability on how their funds are distributed one can only wonder how money it would take to buy a town council member vote for turf approval. With corruption being everyday common practice in NJ government making this assumption does not seem that far fetched, especially with so many people being against the “investment” and the refusal from the town council to compromise.

"how much money" I meant

I remember watching in slow motion a guy on the Eagles blowing out both knees on the same play when Veterans Stadium was artificial turf. Maybe it's safer now but I don't want my kids playing on it. You're not playing sports unless your uniform gets dirty.

If the council truly believes in a democratic forum, they will endorse a referendum on the issue. Just because there is no legal obligation to vote on the issue, maybe there is a moral one.

i was not very impressed with mr. grady's interaction with the mayor last night. is this kind of behavior part of his coaching approach? not impressed. by the way, the fact stated during the meeting that we could buy every kid between 7th and 12th grade a laptop with this money really was impressive. and should we be concerned the cost of replacing the turf in 10 years? where does that money end up coming from. and as for kids getting hurt on the fields as they are, maybe they shouldn't be playing contact sports. i for one would expect injuries as part of the game.

First, I think the Mayor has made some excellent points and deserves to be treated with respect.

Second, if you want to compare sports and band, look at it this way. Sports begin in Kindergarten while band begins in 4th. Sports equipment is provided while band equipment must be purchased or rented. I'm not saying I disagree with this but to compare GRAA to band is not a realistic comparison. There is no music program that is comparable to GRAA. Sports are definitely given more time and money. With that said, I support turfing Hurrell. If that isn't enough after two years, GRAA can help pay to turf another field (but please make it a field that is used primarily for sports). Let's do the one and see if there really is a "need" for two.

M&A, sounds good to me!

"Don’t forget, with all of the kids in town and the garbage going on in Trenton, no one can be expecting the school budget to go down."

Support the SCRIP program!

It costs us nothing, but gives tens of thousands of dollars towards our school's capital improvements!

Sign up today with automatic bill-pay!

"Don’t forget, with all of the kids in town and the garbage going on in Trenton, no one can be expecting the school budget to go down."

Support the SCRIP program!

It costs us nothing, but gives tens of thousands of dollars towards our school's capital improvements!

Sign up today with automatic bill-pay!

"Don’t forget, with all of the kids in town and the garbage going on in Trenton, no one can be expecting the school budget to go down."

Support the SCRIP program!

It costs us nothing, but gives tens of thousands of dollars towards our school's capital improvements!

Sign up today with automatic bill-pay!

or you could look at it this way: the music instructors are teachers paid by tax dollars where as the GRAA members are all volunteers. We all pay for the schools, whereas the GRAA probably saves us from paying more for a town recreation program. By the way, we pay for our kids to participate in the in town GRAA leagues that take everyone, and we pay alot more for kids that are on travelling teams.

If there is no music program that is comparable to the GRAA, does that mean their volunteers need to some how apoligize for all the work they do or for all the folks who take advantage of their offerings?

"Don’t forget, with all of the kids in town and the garbage going on in Trenton, no one can be expecting the school budget to go down."

Support the SCRIP program!

It costs us nothing, but gives tens of thousands of dollars towards our school's capital improvements!

Sign up today with automatic bill-pay!

"Don’t forget, with all of the kids in town and the garbage going on in Trenton, no one can be expecting the school budget to go down."

Support the SCRIP program!

It costs us nothing, but gives tens of thousands of dollars towards our school's capital improvements!

Sign up today with automatic bill-pay!

whoops! sorry, didn't mean to post so many times.

The Mayor is being treated this way because he has not been honest. He asked GRAA and the high school to change their schedules so the construction on the fields could begin sooner rather than later. Now that he is recieving pressure from the Anti-Tax/Turf people he is all the sudden singing a different tune. Why is he not addmitting to this fact. People had assurances from the mayor that this was not going to be a problem. I am not against the mayor being against turf or whatever, but I am against him changing his tune to suit whomever he is talking to. He has become just another politician, telling whomever he is talking to what they want to hear. Maybe we should sing a different tune during our next mayoral election. Jim Grady did not treat the mayor with disrepect he treated him like a politician, one that does not deserve to be believed...

Please be aware that this is me, not a cute screen name to hide behind, just a taxpayer of GR who is fed up with the attacks on the kids. The field turf is for all the children from the Football team to the Band. I have been told not to attend meetings, not to point out the other issues of the proposed bond that I do not choose to support, but now I have had enough of the banter and here are my facts as I percieve them to be. It comes down to dollars and that is what it is all about so get off your soap boxes and think about the following. I respectfully submit the followimg changes to the proposed bond. The proposed savings come from the GR.org website numbers. Municipal Complex:Remove Oil Tank, we are not selling the building (Our forfathes sold the middle school) so we do not have to remove the tank savings 20K. New street lights on Bloomfield Ave & the train station, I have headlights on my car, cancel that 150K, Municipal Complex restore roof system 400K, issue umbrellas cost 10K, savings 390K. Digital camera and security system 40K who needs a picture use your cell phone. New carpet(we dont need playable fields, the empolyees dont need carpets)20K. HVAC Library 235K Fans 5K savings 230K. Shelving and fixtures 200K, 20 new computers, less books savigs 180K. Architects fees library 125K reduced to 10K because we dont need those shelves, savings 115K. PublicWorks Yard building addition 523K cut in half as we do not need the maintenance equipment,savings 250K. Freeman Tennis Courts Building and Hard Court Renovation ( Well I do not play tennis, so I don ot want to improve the courts. savings 65K. Sherman Ave bathrooms well for all you hardcore Ridgers who grew up on the gravel fields just hold it as your parents did we will issue bedpans to GR supporters and visting families savings 33K (we need to allocate 2K for the cost of bed pans). Freeman Gardens, I believe we should support our local florists and pay for flowers if you so desire or grow them on your own property. savings 70K. There I have done it I have knocked down the proposed bond down by 1.7 million, now we can build something for the kids. Please stop, stop crying about your beloved Carteret Park,I live directly across from Forest Avenue Field and would happy to have the surface that you do not want. Oh by the way when I purchased my home 10 years ago taxes were high and there was a park across the street. Ten years later taxes are higher and there is still a park. The fact is, I support the bond, I love flowers, I appreciate tennis players, I want our municipal employees to work in a comfortable enviroment I want people to be cool in the library. Final thought if you were not aware of the tax problems in GR, maybe you should take it up with your realator, who forgot to mention the higher standard of living the residents want and strive for. There is nothing keeping you here, except a great school system, a great commute to the worlds greatest city, and just a group of people who strive for the best!

"or you could look at it this way: the music instructors are teachers paid by tax dollars where as the GRAA members are all volunteers. We all pay for the schools, whereas the GRAA probably saves us from paying more for a town recreation program. By the way, we pay for our kids to participate in the in town GRAA leagues that take everyone, and we pay alot more for kids that are on travelling teams.

If there is no music program that is comparable to the GRAA, does that mean their volunteers need to some how apoligize for all the work they do or for all the folks who take advantage of their offerings?"

The Music instructors in the school system, like the Physical Education instructors in the school system, are paid by the school system because the state of New Jersey requires these two subjects as part of the curriculum. I don’t know what this has to do with the GRAA.

Maybe a town recreation program would be less political and more fair than the GRAA?

I believe that both gym and music teachers are paid by our tax dollars as are the marching band teacher as are the various football, soccer, etc. coaches. From what I understand, the instrumental music program starts in 3rd or 4th grade and culminates in marching band in the high school. It provides only percussion, woodwind, and brass instruction and then there is choral. My observation would be that teaching these is rather different from coaching a sports team and not appropriate for parent volunteers…at least not this one! However, the parents of kids in the music program bring their efforts to the program in a different way and are just as dedicated. They pay for many things including instruments and at the high school level, uniforms, as well as some salaries. My neighbor also helped with equipment and had to go to games and competitions every weekend. When the marching band needed a place to practice during construction at the high school (the football team got Hurrell, and rightly so), they managed to get the Congregational Church to let them practice on the lawn. If you have ever been there, I can assure, having turned my ankle there myself, it is full of holes. My point here is that there are many ways for parents to support programs for their kids and sometimes things are not the best but they are the best to be had and you go on and do your own best. This is an important thing for kids to learn.

Concerned says, "Pro-Turf
It's about keeping things in proportion - it's about not being able to have everything you want and being reasonable about what this town can afford."

EXACTLY.

"From what I understand, the instrumental music program starts in 3rd or 4th grade and culminates in marching band in the high school."

You understand incorrectly. Marching Band is an extra-curricular activity the same as football, spring musical, Model UN, Spanish Club, soccer, Jazz Band etc.

The way to distinguish between curricular and non or extra curricular is whether or not the students get a grade in the course. Certainly, the students that take band get a grade. Please do not confuese this with anything the GRAA does.

I have been following the last few meetings and had my children involved with the last meeting holding signs and asking the town council for turf. It has been interseting to my family and I actually paying attention to the entire process of passing or rejecting this bond. Tuesdays meeting was quite a dramatic show of opposition. It was obvious to everyone in attendance that Mayor Carl is against turfing Carteret....and why? Because it directly effects him and his neighbors. I do see their point. As do most people. The problem as stated by the council itself is that it is a town field and not a neighborhood park. The entire town pays for the upkeep etc. for Carteret, not just the immediate neighbors. Mayor Carl is obviously protecting his neighbors and not representing the views of the majority of the council members. Mayor Carl does not have a council vote and has stated in past meetings that he will support the views and vote that the council makes. If anyone watched the town council meeting from Tuesday night it was obvious that Liz Brewster and Peter Hughes are sick and tired of Mayor Carl's expressing his onesided views during the meeting. My family and I think Jim Grady did a wonderful job in bringing to light the problems that Mayor Carl is having in representing his council. He is not acting as the mayor and leader of our elected council, but as a resident of Lorriane Street. We have loved him as count Dracula but question his objectiveness in dealing with this issue. We the town residents of Glen Ridge have elected the town council members. Let them use all the information they have accumulated and views from all of the long winded speaches residents have given and make a vote. We are a town of many people with various backgrounds and financial differences. I have enjoyed watching people I respect and like expressing totally different opinions then I have. My family spends at least 15 hours a week if not more on our terrible Glen Ridge Fields. Our children travel to other towns and we are always blown away at the beautiful fields they all seem to have compared to ours. I support the entire bond and think everything in it is needed and would not have been placed into it if the town council had not deemed it important also...even the bathroom at Sherman...hahah. I would love to see our library become up to par with our neighbors. I wish the town council luck with dealing with this issue and look forward to seeing more townspeople become involved with our issues and the many tax problems that a looming in our future.

I have been following the last few meetings and had my children involved with the last meeting holding signs and asking the town council for turf. It has been interseting to my family and I actually paying attention to the entire process of passing or rejecting this bond. Tuesdays meeting was quite a dramatic show of opposition. It was obvious to everyone in attendance that Mayor Carl is against turfing Carteret....and why? Because it directly effects him and his neighbors. I do see their point. As do most people. The problem as stated by the council itself is that it is a town field and not a neighborhood park. The entire town pays for the upkeep etc. for Carteret, not just the immediate neighbors. Mayor Carl is obviously protecting his neighbors and not representing the views of the majority of the council members. Mayor Carl does not have a council vote and has stated in past meetings that he will support the views and vote that the council makes. If anyone watched the town council meeting from Tuesday night it was obvious that Liz Brewster and Peter Hughes are sick and tired of Mayor Carl's expressing his onesided views during the meeting. My family and I think Jim Grady did a wonderful job in bringing to light the problems that Mayor Carl is having in representing his council. He is not acting as the mayor and leader of our elected council, but as a resident of Lorriane Street. We have loved him as count Dracula but question his objectiveness in dealing with this issue. We the town residents of Glen Ridge have elected the town council members. Let them use all the information they have accumulated and views from all of the long winded speaches residents have given and make a vote. We are a town of many people with various backgrounds and financial differences. I have enjoyed watching people I respect and like expressing totally different opinions then I have. My family spends at least 15 hours a week if not more on our terrible Glen Ridge Fields. Our children travel to other towns and we are always blown away at the beautiful fields they all seem to have compared to ours. I support the entire bond and think everything in it is needed and would not have been placed into it if the town council had not deemed it important also...even the bathroom at Sherman...hahah. I would love to see our library become up to par with our neighbors. I wish the town council luck with dealing with this issue and look forward to seeing more townspeople become involved with our issues and the many tax problems that a looming in our future.

I look forward to seeing the kids in town walking around on crutches and with big gauze bandages over their hideous scrapes. Go ahead and turf...I'll later say " I told you so. "
The town council is absolutely getting paid off. Why else wouldn't there be the common sense compromise solution?

Maybe it was reported somewhere that the town deferred re-sodding Carteret at the GRAA's request, and schedules were changed at the mayor's request to accommodate construction - if so I missed it. I'm ticked off to hear these kind of promises and arrangements were made, if they were. And based on the lame attempt to repair Carteret field this summer, they probably *were* made. At the time, who knew? Perhaps if this all had been clear to more people earlier, some of this sorry, divisive mess could have been avoided.

But I see no problem with the mayor changing his mind, apparently when he's presented with more than just the point of view of the sports interests in town. Who, if this happens, while they can finally hold their heads up high when the other Turfed towns come to play spring soccer and fall lax, will still schedule the little kids and in-town teams for mud pits/cow pastures like Clay, Washington, and Watsessing.

The sports boosters who brought this on would make things better by committing to raising a big downpayment, which would reduce debt service and hey, maybe even help hold the line on taxes. *We'd* contribute - just like we did for the community pool and the auditorium. I haven't heard one of these folks explain why sports programs are entitled to continue to expand and outgrow these facilities, reportedly without much of anything contributed to the town for upkeep, much less improvement.

Maybe there is a fear that if this project is delayed, it'll run into re-assessment, after which nothing will be done for awhile. All the more reason for the GRAA, et al to step up right now, commit to funding a big chunk of this, and stop acting like the rest of the town somehow owes them Field Turf.

In response to wow...many of the ppeople in support of the turf have made many large donations to town wide projects in the past. The school library's, the middle school auditorium, lockers at the highschool, private donations to the town library, the historical society, the educational foundation, the kitchen tour, various home and school fundraisers...the list goes on. Let the town itself finally help pay for something for a change, not always the core group of donating citizens that always fork up the bucks.

The opposition to turf is not just by those living near Carteret, or by those without athletes, or by those who cannot afford it.
This is because the safety and hygene of artificial surfaces is poor. Additionally, preserving the appeal of this town with gas lamps and old victorian homes, is important. You can put turf in your yard, too....Why not? Because it looks stupid.

I see Cartaret as a town park and not a town field. I live no where near Cartaret, but my kids did go to Linden. Did yours? It is convenient to live on the North end and say "yea, get rid of the open fields on the southend."

I don't necessarily disagree with turfing Hurrell, but why should the cost be put in this bond? The auditorium got done by fundraising. The sports supporters seem to imply that the music and theater supporters are not as numerous as the sports enthusiasts.

Well???? Can't you raise the money?

No one has ever brought up the bathroom at Sherman Avenue field...another neighborhood park except for one neighbor. Do we really need one there? How much is that one costing us. If Mayor Carl lived on Sherman Avenue and the bathroom was across the street from his front door, would it be in this bond??????

There’s nothing pretty or historically sensitive, or quaint about a 75,000 square foot plastic mat in your neighborhood. We chose this community for its apparent embrace of “days-gone-by” – gas lamps, tree lined streets, and a serious historical preservation effort. The juxtaposition of an 1800’s gas lamp lighting a plastic field is unfortunate and inconsistent with the image of this community.

Wit, you are certainly elite as a member of the core group of donating citizens. The whole town is grateful.
But why would you assume that I am not your friendly neighbor who donates more of my larger paycheck to worthier causes?
In fact, I probably know you since I volunteer and lead some of those local fundraisers.

well, wow, you said it beter than I could. You have such wit.

well, wow, you said it better than I could. You have such wit.

Wow and hiding...you guys are so funny! It's time for bed go to sleep.

Aid, if you are speaking the truth, why are you posting anonymously? The fact is, you can’t substantiate anything you’ve accused me of here, for the very simple reason that none of it is true.

You say I have a hidden agenda, but I have been completely upfront about the idea of synthetic fields at Carteret Park from day-one. When the GRAA proposed turfing Carteret, I told the council and Bob Salvatelli (President of the GRAA) point-blank that I could not and would not even consider supporting a synthetic surface at Carteret Park unless it was supported by the neighborhood. Ask a councilmember, or ask Bob.

What’s more, this statement by you is a bald-faced lie:

He asked GRAA and the high school to change their schedules so the construction on the fields could begin sooner rather than later.

as is this:

People had assurances from the mayor that this was not going to be a problem.

Again, if there were any substance to your lies, why hide? Produce some proof and sign your name.

The fact is, the GRAA is a fine organization that does a lot of good things for many kids in this town. Unfortunately, too many folks in town have a bad impression of the GRAA, mostly because of people like you.

With the installation of artificial turf are we changing “Carteret Park” into primarily a “Sports Field”. If so, I would appreciate reviewing the original charter/plan for "Carteret Park”. And let’s be honest, Carteret Street is on the margins of this community. Well, let’s face it, if the Park becomes a Sports Facility, neighboring towns will discover that fact very fast. And the parking and traffic around this little piece of paradise and Americana will descend into an intractable problem. With already overwhelming traffic issues with the regularly scheduled games –things can only be expected to get worse. Serious thought should be given to a Parking Plan and Security Measures on game days.

"And let’s be honest, Carteret Street is on the margins of this community."

What?

WIT:

This has nothing to do with where I live. My property does not adjoin the park, and you can't see the field from my house. I would feel the same way about the idea of neighborhood support even if I lived on the North Side, because to do otherwise is bad public policy, which I have said for many years (long before there was even talk of turf on town fields).

The reason I don't get a vote on this is because it can't be a tie. N.J. law is very clear, however, that a bond ordinance, like all ordinances, are the product of the mayor and council, and I am entitled, in fact, as an elected official I am duty-bound, to be fully involved in the discussion.

Finally, this got lost in the discussion last night, but because of the concerns expressed by the neighbors, the decision has been made to move the bathroom to the back of Sherman Avenue Field.

Living on Lorraine Street for 10years I am surprised no one commentented on the RADON infested field that we lived thru twice being dug up and re surfaced. All of our lovely residents that live AROUND us and are commenting did not live thru the nightmare that WE did yet love to comment on what is best for our neighbothood field. 1st of all, when the field was 1st re-done every one of us backing up to the field floaded. Yes floaded! Therefore, thank god the 2nd attempt went thru. When this revamping was in action I got to know the workers seeing I saw them daily and one worker said "for the millions it is costing they should have turfed this field and given everyone on the street a great payoff to relocate and it still would have been cheaper." I smiled and thought the guy was crazy and went on pushing my stroller. Now I think 10 years later. He was right! Anyone that lives around Carteret Park knows that when it was done it was beautiful. Now, my kids and I pick up trash daily. Dogs Poop on it on a regular basis as we know because we step in it. The pot holes on the field are clearly visable and the hockey rink was a disaster. It already needs to be re surfaced. The bathrooms are gross and nobody cares. Therefore, we have a community effort that gets together to clean the park seasonally. I have 3 kids and I find my 5 year old going to the park to "clean it". If we turf these fields and have the "grounds crew" focus on the parks and bathrooms in and around our town I'm all for it.

Well, goodnight all - it seems that we all have our personal reasons for turfing or not turfing. Mine is definitely financial.
As a matter of fact, I would prefer to see no bonding until after the reassessment.
Three of the 4 council members who are supporting this bond have property taxes of $16,000, $13,000 and a little over $10,000. Mine on the other hand are well over $23,000. (This is public info. - Zillow.com) (By the way my house would fit inside the house paying $16,000).
Therefore I stand to pay a heck of a lot more over the next ten years than these people are going to pay. And frankly, I don't want to pay an unfair share.
It will be a good couple of years before the new rates for the reassessment take effect. So why not wait and everyone will be taxed fairly.
Then we'll see who's in favor of adding and extra $1500 to their tax bill each year.

This is a great forum but it was brought to my attenion that our Mayor, Carl Bergmason is a founding member of Barista. Is this true?

I'm a little foggy on Borough politics...but are the Council Memebers appointed by the Mayor? If so, I see no weight to his objection to turfing the field. If the Council is appointed - they speak for the Mayor regardless of his public persona. However, if they are elected, they can consider themselves political jackasses for pushing through a Bond that taxes the community for the benefit of the elite few lacrosse and soccer players of local schools. We need new side walks, damn it! Not plastic fields of dreams that will be long forgotten once junior is off to trade school because he was cut from the varsity squad. Sports are just that - sports. They don't bind a community, they don't embellish it with anything but...well... sportsmanship. I got a good taste of that from one of the community's little darlings the night of public comment on the Bond proposal. As my neighbor, a girl's soccer coach - of all people - was speaking out against the turfing, we heard repeatedly from kids in the audience - that probably should have been in bed as it was 10:30 - "why don't you just move!" Sad but that's what Dad and Mom have put all their mediocre effort into raising - insensitive, intractable little vermin - that despite losing that scholarship to Jersey City College will come back to this once beautiful community to work in Public Works. Where they will not really care about the gas lights that have been replaced by neon, or the crumbling sidewalks. All they will care about is that their little junior gets that precious lacrosse scholarship so they don't turn out like to good 'ol Mom & Dad. And so the circle of life continues. Anyone interested in a beautiful home accross from the once beautiful Caretert PARK - please let me know. I will be a motivated seller come Spring. GRAA members are preferred as I know they will do just about anything for the love of the game.

I'm a little foggy on Borough politics...but are the Council Memebers appointed by the Mayor? If so, I see no weight to his objection to turfing the field. If the Council is appointed - they speak for the Mayor regardless of his public persona. However, if they are elected, they can consider themselves political jackasses for pushing through a Bond that taxes the community for the benefit of the elite few lacrosse and soccer players of local schools. We need new side walks, damn it! Not plastic fields of dreams that will be long forgotten once junior is off to trade school because he was cut from the varsity squad. Sports are just that - sports. They don't bind a community, they don't embellish it with anything but...well... sportsmanship. I got a good taste of that from one of the community's little darlings the night of public comment on the Bond proposal. As my neighbor, a girl's soccer coach - of all people - was speaking out against the turfing, we heard repeatedly from kids in the audience - that probably should have been in bed as it was 10:30 - "why don't you just move!" Sad but that's what Dad and Mom have put all their mediocre effort into raising - insensitive, intractable little vermin - that despite losing that scholarship to Jersey City College will come back to this once beautiful community to work in Public Works. Where they will not really care about the gas lights that have been replaced by neon, or the crumbling sidewalks. All they will care about is that their little junior gets that precious lacrosse scholarship so they don't turn out like to good 'ol Mom & Dad. And so the circle of life continues. Anyone interested in a beautiful home accross from the once beautiful Caretert PARK - please let me know. I will be a motivated seller come Spring. GRAA members are preferred as I know they will do just about anything for the love of the game.

Yes, there can be flooding on Carteret Field. I, for one, would like to hear some discussions of installing a few french drains, as they do on golf courses, as well as reseeding/sodding a bit more aggressively. I live down somewhat near this park and would really like to see the field kept natural but in better shape - for what it's worth.

To Artifical G.R.
take a Tyneol PM and call it a night. I'm worried about you!

"Yeah, still hiding",

Sodding was deferred because the GRAA requested the town save money and try hydro-seeding, and because they felt that they had a good chance of persuading the council to put turf at Carteret Park. The council agreed because turf was being considered at Carteret Park. All of this was at a public meeting, and it makes sense, why would you spend the money to re-sod it if you were considering ripping it out?

As far as the scheduling is concerned, I believe that it was the town Recreation Department that suggested the changes at Carteret Park, again because the council was considering the turf proposal. This also makes sense, why bother considering a bond issue to turf the field if the field is unavailable?

And you are right, the whole purpose of open hearings is for the elected officials to consider the arguments and concerns presented by the citizens and there would have been nothing wrong with me "changing my mind," but in this case, as I said above,:

When the GRAA proposed turfing Carteret, I told the council and Bob Salvatelli (President of the GRAA) point-blank that I could not and would not even consider supporting a synthetic surface at Carteret Park unless it was supported by the neighborhood.

and from what I’ve heard from all the public meetings, and the emails and letters and phone calls, the neighbors are overwhelmingly opposed. I’ve been told that there are some neighbors who support this, if there are, I would say to them, like I have said to everyone, the council can’t read your mind, come to the open hearing, or send them a letter or an email.

Happy,

Debbie and I were 50/50 partners when we started Barista in 2004. Effective December 31st of that year I sold all but 5% of my interest in it, and I am no longer involved in any aspect of it (other than enjoying it as valuable resource for our communities).

Artificial,

Each of our six councilpersons were elected, they each serve 3-year terms (there is an election for two each November), and all six ran as independents on the "Civic Conference Committee" line.

I was elected to a 4-year term as mayor in 2003, I ran as an independent on the "Still Not CCC" line.

WIT says: "Our children travel to other towns and we are always blown away at the beautiful fields they all seem to have compared to ours."

And how many of those beautiful fields have artificial turf? Why can't we strive for beautiful grass fields? You want turf just because you're jealous that someone else can grow grass?

"N," you "live down somewhat near this park," yet must not have been in the park anytime in the past few years ... it HAS french drains already. But I agree with you, let's keep it natural. Hurrell Field is an athletic facility - go ahead and turf it. But Carteret is a neighborhood park ... I haven't heard any comments recently that turfing Carteret would therefore make it off limits to recreational fun for families ... which would be outrageously wrong.

didn't the GRAA oppose the town pool because they were interested in getting the space for a lacrosse field? does anyone remember this?

As I read through the discussion, I enjoy the lesson in civics I am getting.

It almost seems like many people want everyone to take a visible stand on the issue - no anonymity, if your for it then why aren't you speaking up, etc. Why not just have everyone hang green flags from their house if they want the bond for this to go forward and red if they want it to stop? Then we can pounce on those that don't take a stand and once we've divided and labelled the entire community we can really get to the fun part.

I would also be concerned with the idea that the local neighborhoods need to approve changes to town facilties. I am sure that the very necessary repairs to the school auditorium will increase the use of that facility. More cars parking more often around the school might be seen by local residents as less than optimum. Did we poll them? What if they were concerned? Forest avenue gets jammed up nightly with footbal practice and there are all kinds of cards parking there on the weekends for games. Can the residents of that street voice concerns and cut back on the scheduling there? What if residents by the garden wanted a cut back in parties and weddings? Would we even think of that? At the end of the meeting (after many left) I beleive there was a report on the efforts to move forward with the pool house upgrades. Can the neighborhood there (and yes I know the town has worked with them in the past to minimize the impact of activities) come back now and if no one on their street approves the new facility, stop that work?

I would agree that it is appropriate to listen to the local area and when we move forward on town initiatives we should look to minimize impact on the surrounding area, but if we are going to somehow give those living closest to town facilities a priority or greater weight in the discussion, I would think we need to make sure that we document what is done and how, so that it can be applied by all governing bodies going forward. Not only would that ensure that this is evenly applied as the town moves forward, but we can get an idea of how it will effect our ability to move.

Perth Amboy just opened their new football field up with new turf. Cost $1 million. Cost to town zero. Abbott funding at its finest. NJ is a joke and its corrupt politicians will continue to fleece the middle class. Abbott funding is nothing but a way for Democrats to continue recieving support from the poor. Keep offering free hand outs and the votes will follow.

confused, are you saying that you are moving?

Who is Abboott?

Why is he giving away money?

How do I get some?

Not only would that ensure that this is evenly applied as the town moves forward, but we can get an idea of how it will effect our ability to move (forward)

To answer your question:

Who is Abboott?
Abbott funding is a payment system designed to buy votes for the corrupt New Jersey Democrats under the guise of helping the less fortunate.

Why is he giving away money?
They are giving away so much money because its easy to tax the middle class in NJ and not get any push back.

How do I get some?
Easy, quit work, sit on your ass all day, smoke crack, have as many illegitimate kids as possible and blame others for your situation. The money will come flowing in. In return all you have to do is look the other way and allow the political machine in Trenton to award no bid contracts to friends and set up no show jobs.

I believe Abbott districts are low-income communities that get extra educational funding from the state. Then there are Abbott-rim districts (those abutting Abbott districts), of which Montclair is one (not sure about Glen Ridge, but seems likely), which seek some aid because of their proximity to same. Do I have that right?

"In return all you have to do is look the other way and allow the political machine in Trenton to award no bid contracts to friends"

WOW sounds like Remsen's Town Council in Montclair- No Bid Contracts for ALL of our friends

Maybe we should be calling him ED "NO BID NEEDED" REMSEN

instead of

ED "the puking Mayor" REMSEN

In response to these few idiots....

I look forward to seeing the kids in town walking around on crutches and with big gauze bandages over their hideous scrapes. Go ahead and turf...I'll later say " I told you so. "
The town council is absolutely getting paid off. Why else wouldn't there be the common sense compromise solution?

Posted by: wow | September 27, 2006 10:00 PM

This is because the safety and hygene of artificial surfaces is poor. Additionally, preserving the appeal of this town with gas lamps and old victorian homes, is important. You can put turf in your yard, too....Why not? Because it looks stupid.

Posted by: not on Lorraine | September 27, 2006 10:11 PM

And how many of those beautiful fields have artificial turf? Why can't we strive for beautiful grass fields? You want turf just because you're jealous that someone else can grow grass?

Posted by: Alford | September 28, 2006 1:19 AM

______________________________

YOU PEOPLE CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TURF IS LIKE THESE DAYS. I CAN GAURANTEE THAT DRIVING BY A TURFED FIELD, YOU WOULD HAVE NO IDEA THAT IT WAS NOT REAL GRASS. TODAY'S TURFED FIELDS DO NOT POSE THE SAME RISKS OF INJURY AS THE OLD ONES. T