Artificial turf and taxes may be the subject matter. But the subtext of the debate is even more interesting, especially for a town that for years embraced a one-party form of government just to avoid public rancor. At last night's meeting of the Glen Ridge Borough Council, opponents on the issue of whether to artificially turf two playing fields bared their teeth and barked at their neighbors, even in front of the rolling video cameras of Channel 36.
The highlight of the meeting came when Jim Grady, bullying Mayor Carl Bergmanson, barked loud enough to provoke Police Chief John Magnier, sitting behind the council, to shout "Order!"
Grady, an advocate of turfing, had just finished objecting to Bergmanson taking a strong stand against turfing Carteret Park, when he doesn't have a vote on the $6.9 million bond issue. The exchange went approximately like this:
Grady: I find it shocking that our mayor is what I would consider bullying the council and stirring up more troublle publicly when he doesn't have a vote on the issue. The council has met and they are four and two. And you are stirring up your opinion. And I don't think you're right.Bergmanson: The next time you post online, why don't you put your name on it?
Grady: Thank God you do not have a vote.
Bergmanson: There has not been a vote yet.
Grady: Do you have a vote on the issue? DO YOU HAVE A VOTE ON THE ISSUE? DO YOU HAVE A VOTE ON THE ISSUE?
Magnier: ORDER!
Bergmanson: That's your opinion, as wrong as it is.
Council members Peter Hughes and Elizabeth Brewster quickly jumped in to agree with Grady, and the especially acid-tongued Brewster accused Bergmanson of going behind the scenes and spreading "rampant misinformation."
Bergmanson, under attack, at points tightened his rein, reminding the council that he was still running the meeting and had a right to speak on the issues.
Hope for the anti-turf forces came at one point of the meeting when council president Ravi Mehrota interrupted Bergmanson, who was characterizing the council's split on the issue as 4-2, to point out that the vote hadn't yet happened.
"The time when we vote is when it counts," Mehrota said, leaving open the possibility that his vote might swing against turfing Carteret. Councilman Art Dawson, another supporter of field turfing, is also a possible swing. He expressed concern Monday night that council pass the bond without concensus.
Among the members of the public who spoke for about two hours, remarks ran about two to one against turfing.
"What is the rush to make these fields plastic?" asked Julia Gorton.
Bernard Brewster, speaking for turfing, pointed out that the fields throughout town were filled with kids playing football, lacrosse and soccer when he took a run on Saturday. "It's really magical," he said. "The people vote with their feet."
Comments (199)
What does "The people vote with their feet" mean? If those resident had no problem playing on these fields, why in god's name spend millions of dollars to put turf down? sounds like the council caved to the teeth-baring wishes of the graa.
If the town can somehow minimize usage of these fields, maybe turfing wouldn't be such a big issue, and maintaining the fields would be more manageable. Why is it that a town the size of Glen Ridge has to offer soccer, lacrosse, baseball, football etc. etc. to children from pre-k to 8th grade? I can understand offering these sports at the high school level but the usage of the fields could be cut by a third, at least, if some of the programs were cut for the younger children. We have to remember that we are a small community with limited funds -- Just an idea that I'm certain everyone will not agree with. I'm guessing the solution is not that simple.
Concerned-
How do you expect kids to succeed in sports at the high school level if they have no prior experience in them? What would our marching band sound like if we didn't give kids instruments until high school?
This is an issue where the turf is ground. Ground is what we walk on. I don't know what turf is. I would like toattend some of these meetings.
Just one more comment....
Carl Bergmanson does not deserve the disrespect shown to him by Mr. Grady or the council members at last night's meeting. He handled the situation quite honorably - like the gentleman that he is.
Pro-Turf
I didn't say ELIMINATE the programs - I said CUT BACK.
That's what it's all about - keeping things managable for a town the size of GR.
Pro-Turf
I didn't say ELIMINATE the programs - I said CUT BACK.
That's what it's all about - keeping things managable for a town the size of GR.
Yes, but cutting-back has a history of being discriminatory. Sports like lacrosse and field hockey are put on the back burner so that sports like football and baseball can thrive. This is where the Title IX problems stem at the college level (obviously a male/female issue as well). Elaborating on my comparison above, cutting back on sport programs might be like saying-- ok, well we support the flute and clarinet players, but we don't want the tuba and french horn players.
"Carl Bergmanson does not deserve the disrespect shown to him by Mr. Grady or the council members at last night's meeting. He handled the situation quite honorably - like the gentleman that he is."
Could not agree more!
pro-turf, if you think the town would borrow 3 million to buy new instruments for all band students, you're out of your mind. also, if a kid sucks at baseball, it doesn't matter what condition the field is in. i'm sure there are plenty of major leaguers who played on crappy fields growing up.
just do the football field for cripes sake, proclaim the south end park to be in the Historical area, thus, no phony grass.
sheesh, like all levels of politics, the one's that are to benefit get lost in the p-ing contest. let me add, that for an affluent town, this is a small luxury, next time i crawl down Ridgewood Ave at 35 mph, i'll feel a little sorry for the destitute living in their tudor homes, rubbing nickels together just to pay the day-labor to cut the grass...
Pro-Turf
It's about keeping things in proportion - it's about not being able to have everything you want and being reasonable about what this town can afford.
I really hate what this is doing to our town. And what kind of an example is it for the children? With passions running so high I can just imagine what kids in some households are overhearing...even when parents try to be discrete. What I am hearing is that there is no room for compromise, only the best will do and if you don’t get it people don’t care about you, and we are more important than everyone else. Not something I want to teach my children and no amount of good sportsmanship on the field instruction will counteract that.
There is a solution here. The council members all agree on everything except Carteret…and I imagine that a lot of compromise has already taken place on some of the other issues like town hall, the library, etc. Do the rest and wait on Carteret. If it costs a little more, so be it. It may not be in good shape but I have seen some of the fields kids in other, less privileged (blessed), towns play on, and maybe our teams need to know how to deal with challenges of terrain. This would give GRAA an opportunity to accumulate a nice financial contribution, provide some relief to field conditions, and still accommodate some of the challenges of the broader GR community. Don’t forget, with all of the kids in town and the garbage going on in Trenton, no one can be expecting the school budget to go down.
…and we send a good message to our children on how to live respectfully in a community.
Hiding- No, I would never expect that. But the town pays for music stands and music instructors, etc. Kids and their families are still paying for a lot of the equipment they need to play sports (much of which is quite expensive in itself). So why is giving them a quality area to use said equipment on such a tragedy? Sure there are people all over the country playing on dirt fields, but are you really trying to compare a town like Glen Ridge to a place like Harlem or North Philadelphia? What really irks me about this whole argument is that the people who are against the turfing can't decide on a concrete reason WHY they are against it. For some it's the money, for some it's the principle, for some (uninformend) it's the injuries, for some it's the aesthetics.
...and for some, like me and many of my neighbors it's all of the above. There are MANY reasons to be against the turf.
...and for some (me and many of my neighbors) it's all of the above! There are MANY reasons to be against the turf.
It is amazing how some of you find it so easy to mislead people about how things happen. Overall the meeting was good. People spoke that are for the turf bond and against, as it should be. As for the Mayor’s way of handling himself in the meeting, it was basically ridiculous. Mr. Mayor, let the counsel persons do there job, and let them have the opportunity to speak when they ask too. Control yourself!
My my my! Mr. Pro-Turf.
Aren't you one of the GR elite! Yes, places like Harlem and No. Philly do exist. (and produce some great athletes).
Very Concerned--
You wrote, "I really hate what this is doing to our town. And what kind of an example is it for the children?"
What's to worry about? What's it doing to our children? This is how democracy works. People in a free society have the right to disagree. In fact, this is how our society functions. It has worked for the last 200+ years. There is always tough discussion, contentious argument, as there should be. Use it as an opportunity to teach your children the wonders of a system that allows so many disparate folks to live in a town such as ours peacefully. In the end, turf or no, the process works. We can have faith in our electoral process. Oh, but wait! Our elected official has no say? That is curious. Why is that again? Maybe it's time to have another look at how we choose to be governed.
"disparate"? oh, as in, some like to only spend on themselves. got it
Question: do you get college credits for sexual assault? My coach said I did.
Concerned-- I do not consider myself "elite," as you claim. However, like it or not, Glen Ridge is not and will never be a slum or a ghetto. Harlem and North Philly are poor, crime ridden neighborhoods-- and yes, they may have dirt fields. In fact, one of the new anti-violence campains in Philadelphia is aimed at improving the conditions of their athletic facilities to get kids off the streets. QED.
Oscar, I couldn’t agree more that it is important for children to see democracy in action. What I take exception to is the vitriolic discourse. Tough discussion and contentious argument can take place in a civil and respectful manner. With young, impressionable minds the subject of this particular issue also matters. If it were over what kind of garage is needed to store the town’s equipment it would be a little different. I have no doubt that some children are hearing (and I meaning by that absorbing) that there are people who don’t care about their safety. It is too close too home. These are all people kids see on the streets, at church, on the fields, and even at their friend’s houses all the time. They are not abstract in children’s minds or in more distant places like Washington or even Trenton. I also don’t doubt that everyone involved in the discussion cares about children. They may find different ways to balance their views and concerns about the community but they all care and I think that is what children should hear. This is one entitlement with which children should be showered…they are cared about by their family, their school, and their community.
Sorry for the typos.
what do you mean by safety?
Jim Grady's comments to the Mayor were valid and while he may have come on strong it should be noted that he has been coaching our teams for years with none of his own children on the teams. He has volunteered his time and talents for no other reason than to help our children. He cares about our community and has put himself out there helping our kids and for what? No other reason than he loves working with our children and sharing his passion for sports. He should be commended for taking on the Mayor and calling him out. The mayors hidden agenda on this needs to be exposed for what it is. He is not entitled to steer the council meeting his direction for his benefit. Can we impeach our mayor?
Jim Grady's comments to the Mayor were valid and while he may have come on strong it should be noted that he has been coaching our teams for years with none of his own children on the teams. He has volunteered his time and talents for no other reason than to help our children. He cares about our community and has put himself out there helping our kids and for what? No other reason than he loves working with our children and sharing his passion for sports. He should be commended for taking on the Mayor and calling him out. The mayors hidden agenda on this needs to be exposed for what it is. He is not entitled to steer the council meeting his direction for his benefit. Can we impeach our mayor?
I meant safety in the context of assertions of dangerous field conditions.
You think the Turf War of '06 is bad. Wait till the Tax Reassessment of '07 goes down. When the town sends people into your home to count just how many bathrooms and other improvements have been made over the years. At least we can all come together on that one.
aid,
You are right, and I should have mentioned that about Jim Grady, when I last wrote. He has given his own personal time year after year (as others have) to help our town's sport programs. He is a great coach and person. He should only be thanked for his time and dedication to our towns growth in sports programs.
With 250K of spend able income per year and no accountability on how their funds are distributed one can only wonder how money it would take to buy a town council member vote for turf approval. With corruption being everyday common practice in NJ government making this assumption does not seem that far fetched, especially with so many people being against the “investment†and the refusal from the town council to compromise.
"how much money" I meant
I remember watching in slow motion a guy on the Eagles blowing out both knees on the same play when Veterans Stadium was artificial turf. Maybe it's safer now but I don't want my kids playing on it. You're not playing sports unless your uniform gets dirty.
If the council truly believes in a democratic forum, they will endorse a referendum on the issue. Just because there is no legal obligation to vote on the issue, maybe there is a moral one.
i was not very impressed with mr. grady's interaction with the mayor last night. is this kind of behavior part of his coaching approach? not impressed. by the way, the fact stated during the meeting that we could buy every kid between 7th and 12th grade a laptop with this money really was impressive. and should we be concerned the cost of replacing the turf in 10 years? where does that money end up coming from. and as for kids getting hurt on the fields as they are, maybe they shouldn't be playing contact sports. i for one would expect injuries as part of the game.
First, I think the Mayor has made some excellent points and deserves to be treated with respect.
Second, if you want to compare sports and band, look at it this way. Sports begin in Kindergarten while band begins in 4th. Sports equipment is provided while band equipment must be purchased or rented. I'm not saying I disagree with this but to compare GRAA to band is not a realistic comparison. There is no music program that is comparable to GRAA. Sports are definitely given more time and money. With that said, I support turfing Hurrell. If that isn't enough after two years, GRAA can help pay to turf another field (but please make it a field that is used primarily for sports). Let's do the one and see if there really is a "need" for two.
M&A, sounds good to me!
"Don’t forget, with all of the kids in town and the garbage going on in Trenton, no one can be expecting the school budget to go down."
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"Don’t forget, with all of the kids in town and the garbage going on in Trenton, no one can be expecting the school budget to go down."
Support the SCRIP program!
It costs us nothing, but gives tens of thousands of dollars towards our school's capital improvements!
Sign up today with automatic bill-pay!
"Don’t forget, with all of the kids in town and the garbage going on in Trenton, no one can be expecting the school budget to go down."
Support the SCRIP program!
It costs us nothing, but gives tens of thousands of dollars towards our school's capital improvements!
Sign up today with automatic bill-pay!
or you could look at it this way: the music instructors are teachers paid by tax dollars where as the GRAA members are all volunteers. We all pay for the schools, whereas the GRAA probably saves us from paying more for a town recreation program. By the way, we pay for our kids to participate in the in town GRAA leagues that take everyone, and we pay alot more for kids that are on travelling teams.
If there is no music program that is comparable to the GRAA, does that mean their volunteers need to some how apoligize for all the work they do or for all the folks who take advantage of their offerings?
"Don’t forget, with all of the kids in town and the garbage going on in Trenton, no one can be expecting the school budget to go down."
Support the SCRIP program!
It costs us nothing, but gives tens of thousands of dollars towards our school's capital improvements!
Sign up today with automatic bill-pay!
"Don’t forget, with all of the kids in town and the garbage going on in Trenton, no one can be expecting the school budget to go down."
Support the SCRIP program!
It costs us nothing, but gives tens of thousands of dollars towards our school's capital improvements!
Sign up today with automatic bill-pay!
whoops! sorry, didn't mean to post so many times.
The Mayor is being treated this way because he has not been honest. He asked GRAA and the high school to change their schedules so the construction on the fields could begin sooner rather than later. Now that he is recieving pressure from the Anti-Tax/Turf people he is all the sudden singing a different tune. Why is he not addmitting to this fact. People had assurances from the mayor that this was not going to be a problem. I am not against the mayor being against turf or whatever, but I am against him changing his tune to suit whomever he is talking to. He has become just another politician, telling whomever he is talking to what they want to hear. Maybe we should sing a different tune during our next mayoral election. Jim Grady did not treat the mayor with disrepect he treated him like a politician, one that does not deserve to be believed...
Please be aware that this is me, not a cute screen name to hide behind, just a taxpayer of GR who is fed up with the attacks on the kids. The field turf is for all the children from the Football team to the Band. I have been told not to attend meetings, not to point out the other issues of the proposed bond that I do not choose to support, but now I have had enough of the banter and here are my facts as I percieve them to be. It comes down to dollars and that is what it is all about so get off your soap boxes and think about the following. I respectfully submit the followimg changes to the proposed bond. The proposed savings come from the GR.org website numbers. Municipal Complex:Remove Oil Tank, we are not selling the building (Our forfathes sold the middle school) so we do not have to remove the tank savings 20K. New street lights on Bloomfield Ave & the train station, I have headlights on my car, cancel that 150K, Municipal Complex restore roof system 400K, issue umbrellas cost 10K, savings 390K. Digital camera and security system 40K who needs a picture use your cell phone. New carpet(we dont need playable fields, the empolyees dont need carpets)20K. HVAC Library 235K Fans 5K savings 230K. Shelving and fixtures 200K, 20 new computers, less books savigs 180K. Architects fees library 125K reduced to 10K because we dont need those shelves, savings 115K. PublicWorks Yard building addition 523K cut in half as we do not need the maintenance equipment,savings 250K. Freeman Tennis Courts Building and Hard Court Renovation ( Well I do not play tennis, so I don ot want to improve the courts. savings 65K. Sherman Ave bathrooms well for all you hardcore Ridgers who grew up on the gravel fields just hold it as your parents did we will issue bedpans to GR supporters and visting families savings 33K (we need to allocate 2K for the cost of bed pans). Freeman Gardens, I believe we should support our local florists and pay for flowers if you so desire or grow them on your own property. savings 70K. There I have done it I have knocked down the proposed bond down by 1.7 million, now we can build something for the kids. Please stop, stop crying about your beloved Carteret Park,I live directly across from Forest Avenue Field and would happy to have the surface that you do not want. Oh by the way when I purchased my home 10 years ago taxes were high and there was a park across the street. Ten years later taxes are higher and there is still a park. The fact is, I support the bond, I love flowers, I appreciate tennis players, I want our municipal employees to work in a comfortable enviroment I want people to be cool in the library. Final thought if you were not aware of the tax problems in GR, maybe you should take it up with your realator, who forgot to mention the higher standard of living the residents want and strive for. There is nothing keeping you here, except a great school system, a great commute to the worlds greatest city, and just a group of people who strive for the best!
"or you could look at it this way: the music instructors are teachers paid by tax dollars where as the GRAA members are all volunteers. We all pay for the schools, whereas the GRAA probably saves us from paying more for a town recreation program. By the way, we pay for our kids to participate in the in town GRAA leagues that take everyone, and we pay alot more for kids that are on travelling teams.
If there is no music program that is comparable to the GRAA, does that mean their volunteers need to some how apoligize for all the work they do or for all the folks who take advantage of their offerings?"
The Music instructors in the school system, like the Physical Education instructors in the school system, are paid by the school system because the state of New Jersey requires these two subjects as part of the curriculum. I don’t know what this has to do with the GRAA.
Maybe a town recreation program would be less political and more fair than the GRAA?
I believe that both gym and music teachers are paid by our tax dollars as are the marching band teacher as are the various football, soccer, etc. coaches. From what I understand, the instrumental music program starts in 3rd or 4th grade and culminates in marching band in the high school. It provides only percussion, woodwind, and brass instruction and then there is choral. My observation would be that teaching these is rather different from coaching a sports team and not appropriate for parent volunteers…at least not this one! However, the parents of kids in the music program bring their efforts to the program in a different way and are just as dedicated. They pay for many things including instruments and at the high school level, uniforms, as well as some salaries. My neighbor also helped with equipment and had to go to games and competitions every weekend. When the marching band needed a place to practice during construction at the high school (the football team got Hurrell, and rightly so), they managed to get the Congregational Church to let them practice on the lawn. If you have ever been there, I can assure, having turned my ankle there myself, it is full of holes. My point here is that there are many ways for parents to support programs for their kids and sometimes things are not the best but they are the best to be had and you go on and do your own best. This is an important thing for kids to learn.
Concerned says, "Pro-Turf
It's about keeping things in proportion - it's about not being able to have everything you want and being reasonable about what this town can afford."
EXACTLY.
"From what I understand, the instrumental music program starts in 3rd or 4th grade and culminates in marching band in the high school."
You understand incorrectly. Marching Band is an extra-curricular activity the same as football, spring musical, Model UN, Spanish Club, soccer, Jazz Band etc.
The way to distinguish between curricular and non or extra curricular is whether or not the students get a grade in the course. Certainly, the students that take band get a grade. Please do not confuese this with anything the GRAA does.
I have been following the last few meetings and had my children involved with the last meeting holding signs and asking the town council for turf. It has been interseting to my family and I actually paying attention to the entire process of passing or rejecting this bond. Tuesdays meeting was quite a dramatic show of opposition. It was obvious to everyone in attendance that Mayor Carl is against turfing Carteret....and why? Because it directly effects him and his neighbors. I do see their point. As do most people. The problem as stated by the council itself is that it is a town field and not a neighborhood park. The entire town pays for the upkeep etc. for Carteret, not just the immediate neighbors. Mayor Carl is obviously protecting his neighbors and not representing the views of the majority of the council members. Mayor Carl does not have a council vote and has stated in past meetings that he will support the views and vote that the council makes. If anyone watched the town council meeting from Tuesday night it was obvious that Liz Brewster and Peter Hughes are sick and tired of Mayor Carl's expressing his onesided views during the meeting. My family and I think Jim Grady did a wonderful job in bringing to light the problems that Mayor Carl is having in representing his council. He is not acting as the mayor and leader of our elected council, but as a resident of Lorriane Street. We have loved him as count Dracula but question his objectiveness in dealing with this issue. We the town residents of Glen Ridge have elected the town council members. Let them use all the information they have accumulated and views from all of the long winded speaches residents have given and make a vote. We are a town of many people with various backgrounds and financial differences. I have enjoyed watching people I respect and like expressing totally different opinions then I have. My family spends at least 15 hours a week if not more on our terrible Glen Ridge Fields. Our children travel to other towns and we are always blown away at the beautiful fields they all seem to have compared to ours. I support the entire bond and think everything in it is needed and would not have been placed into it if the town council had not deemed it important also...even the bathroom at Sherman...hahah. I would love to see our library become up to par with our neighbors. I wish the town council luck with dealing with this issue and look forward to seeing more townspeople become involved with our issues and the many tax problems that a looming in our future.
I have been following the last few meetings and had my children involved with the last meeting holding signs and asking the town council for turf. It has been interseting to my family and I actually paying attention to the entire process of passing or rejecting this bond. Tuesdays meeting was quite a dramatic show of opposition. It was obvious to everyone in attendance that Mayor Carl is against turfing Carteret....and why? Because it directly effects him and his neighbors. I do see their point. As do most people. The problem as stated by the council itself is that it is a town field and not a neighborhood park. The entire town pays for the upkeep etc. for Carteret, not just the immediate neighbors. Mayor Carl is obviously protecting his neighbors and not representing the views of the majority of the council members. Mayor Carl does not have a council vote and has stated in past meetings that he will support the views and vote that the council makes. If anyone watched the town council meeting from Tuesday night it was obvious that Liz Brewster and Peter Hughes are sick and tired of Mayor Carl's expressing his onesided views during the meeting. My family and I think Jim Grady did a wonderful job in bringing to light the problems that Mayor Carl is having in representing his council. He is not acting as the mayor and leader of our elected council, but as a resident of Lorriane Street. We have loved him as count Dracula but question his objectiveness in dealing with this issue. We the town residents of Glen Ridge have elected the town council members. Let them use all the information they have accumulated and views from all of the long winded speaches residents have given and make a vote. We are a town of many people with various backgrounds and financial differences. I have enjoyed watching people I respect and like expressing totally different opinions then I have. My family spends at least 15 hours a week if not more on our terrible Glen Ridge Fields. Our children travel to other towns and we are always blown away at the beautiful fields they all seem to have compared to ours. I support the entire bond and think everything in it is needed and would not have been placed into it if the town council had not deemed it important also...even the bathroom at Sherman...hahah. I would love to see our library become up to par with our neighbors. I wish the town council luck with dealing with this issue and look forward to seeing more townspeople become involved with our issues and the many tax problems that a looming in our future.
I look forward to seeing the kids in town walking around on crutches and with big gauze bandages over their hideous scrapes. Go ahead and turf...I'll later say " I told you so. "
The town council is absolutely getting paid off. Why else wouldn't there be the common sense compromise solution?
Maybe it was reported somewhere that the town deferred re-sodding Carteret at the GRAA's request, and schedules were changed at the mayor's request to accommodate construction - if so I missed it. I'm ticked off to hear these kind of promises and arrangements were made, if they were. And based on the lame attempt to repair Carteret field this summer, they probably *were* made. At the time, who knew? Perhaps if this all had been clear to more people earlier, some of this sorry, divisive mess could have been avoided.
But I see no problem with the mayor changing his mind, apparently when he's presented with more than just the point of view of the sports interests in town. Who, if this happens, while they can finally hold their heads up high when the other Turfed towns come to play spring soccer and fall lax, will still schedule the little kids and in-town teams for mud pits/cow pastures like Clay, Washington, and Watsessing.
The sports boosters who brought this on would make things better by committing to raising a big downpayment, which would reduce debt service and hey, maybe even help hold the line on taxes. *We'd* contribute - just like we did for the community pool and the auditorium. I haven't heard one of these folks explain why sports programs are entitled to continue to expand and outgrow these facilities, reportedly without much of anything contributed to the town for upkeep, much less improvement.
Maybe there is a fear that if this project is delayed, it'll run into re-assessment, after which nothing will be done for awhile. All the more reason for the GRAA, et al to step up right now, commit to funding a big chunk of this, and stop acting like the rest of the town somehow owes them Field Turf.
In response to wow...many of the ppeople in support of the turf have made many large donations to town wide projects in the past. The school library's, the middle school auditorium, lockers at the highschool, private donations to the town library, the historical society, the educational foundation, the kitchen tour, various home and school fundraisers...the list goes on. Let the town itself finally help pay for something for a change, not always the core group of donating citizens that always fork up the bucks.
The opposition to turf is not just by those living near Carteret, or by those without athletes, or by those who cannot afford it.
This is because the safety and hygene of artificial surfaces is poor. Additionally, preserving the appeal of this town with gas lamps and old victorian homes, is important. You can put turf in your yard, too....Why not? Because it looks stupid.
I see Cartaret as a town park and not a town field. I live no where near Cartaret, but my kids did go to Linden. Did yours? It is convenient to live on the North end and say "yea, get rid of the open fields on the southend."
I don't necessarily disagree with turfing Hurrell, but why should the cost be put in this bond? The auditorium got done by fundraising. The sports supporters seem to imply that the music and theater supporters are not as numerous as the sports enthusiasts.
Well???? Can't you raise the money?
No one has ever brought up the bathroom at Sherman Avenue field...another neighborhood park except for one neighbor. Do we really need one there? How much is that one costing us. If Mayor Carl lived on Sherman Avenue and the bathroom was across the street from his front door, would it be in this bond??????
There’s nothing pretty or historically sensitive, or quaint about a 75,000 square foot plastic mat in your neighborhood. We chose this community for its apparent embrace of “days-gone-by†– gas lamps, tree lined streets, and a serious historical preservation effort. The juxtaposition of an 1800’s gas lamp lighting a plastic field is unfortunate and inconsistent with the image of this community.
Wit, you are certainly elite as a member of the core group of donating citizens. The whole town is grateful.
But why would you assume that I am not your friendly neighbor who donates more of my larger paycheck to worthier causes?
In fact, I probably know you since I volunteer and lead some of those local fundraisers.
well, wow, you said it beter than I could. You have such wit.
well, wow, you said it better than I could. You have such wit.
Wow and hiding...you guys are so funny! It's time for bed go to sleep.
Aid, if you are speaking the truth, why are you posting anonymously? The fact is, you can’t substantiate anything you’ve accused me of here, for the very simple reason that none of it is true.
You say I have a hidden agenda, but I have been completely upfront about the idea of synthetic fields at Carteret Park from day-one. When the GRAA proposed turfing Carteret, I told the council and Bob Salvatelli (President of the GRAA) point-blank that I could not and would not even consider supporting a synthetic surface at Carteret Park unless it was supported by the neighborhood. Ask a councilmember, or ask Bob.
What’s more, this statement by you is a bald-faced lie:
He asked GRAA and the high school to change their schedules so the construction on the fields could begin sooner rather than later.
as is this:
People had assurances from the mayor that this was not going to be a problem.
Again, if there were any substance to your lies, why hide? Produce some proof and sign your name.
The fact is, the GRAA is a fine organization that does a lot of good things for many kids in this town. Unfortunately, too many folks in town have a bad impression of the GRAA, mostly because of people like you.
With the installation of artificial turf are we changing “Carteret Park†into primarily a “Sports Fieldâ€. If so, I would appreciate reviewing the original charter/plan for "Carteret Parkâ€. And let’s be honest, Carteret Street is on the margins of this community. Well, let’s face it, if the Park becomes a Sports Facility, neighboring towns will discover that fact very fast. And the parking and traffic around this little piece of paradise and Americana will descend into an intractable problem. With already overwhelming traffic issues with the regularly scheduled games –things can only be expected to get worse. Serious thought should be given to a Parking Plan and Security Measures on game days.
"And let’s be honest, Carteret Street is on the margins of this community."
What?
WIT:
This has nothing to do with where I live. My property does not adjoin the park, and you can't see the field from my house. I would feel the same way about the idea of neighborhood support even if I lived on the North Side, because to do otherwise is bad public policy, which I have said for many years (long before there was even talk of turf on town fields).
The reason I don't get a vote on this is because it can't be a tie. N.J. law is very clear, however, that a bond ordinance, like all ordinances, are the product of the mayor and council, and I am entitled, in fact, as an elected official I am duty-bound, to be fully involved in the discussion.
Finally, this got lost in the discussion last night, but because of the concerns expressed by the neighbors, the decision has been made to move the bathroom to the back of Sherman Avenue Field.
Living on Lorraine Street for 10years I am surprised no one commentented on the RADON infested field that we lived thru twice being dug up and re surfaced. All of our lovely residents that live AROUND us and are commenting did not live thru the nightmare that WE did yet love to comment on what is best for our neighbothood field. 1st of all, when the field was 1st re-done every one of us backing up to the field floaded. Yes floaded! Therefore, thank god the 2nd attempt went thru. When this revamping was in action I got to know the workers seeing I saw them daily and one worker said "for the millions it is costing they should have turfed this field and given everyone on the street a great payoff to relocate and it still would have been cheaper." I smiled and thought the guy was crazy and went on pushing my stroller. Now I think 10 years later. He was right! Anyone that lives around Carteret Park knows that when it was done it was beautiful. Now, my kids and I pick up trash daily. Dogs Poop on it on a regular basis as we know because we step in it. The pot holes on the field are clearly visable and the hockey rink was a disaster. It already needs to be re surfaced. The bathrooms are gross and nobody cares. Therefore, we have a community effort that gets together to clean the park seasonally. I have 3 kids and I find my 5 year old going to the park to "clean it". If we turf these fields and have the "grounds crew" focus on the parks and bathrooms in and around our town I'm all for it.
Well, goodnight all - it seems that we all have our personal reasons for turfing or not turfing. Mine is definitely financial.
As a matter of fact, I would prefer to see no bonding until after the reassessment.
Three of the 4 council members who are supporting this bond have property taxes of $16,000, $13,000 and a little over $10,000. Mine on the other hand are well over $23,000. (This is public info. - Zillow.com) (By the way my house would fit inside the house paying $16,000).
Therefore I stand to pay a heck of a lot more over the next ten years than these people are going to pay. And frankly, I don't want to pay an unfair share.
It will be a good couple of years before the new rates for the reassessment take effect. So why not wait and everyone will be taxed fairly.
Then we'll see who's in favor of adding and extra $1500 to their tax bill each year.
This is a great forum but it was brought to my attenion that our Mayor, Carl Bergmason is a founding member of Barista. Is this true?
I'm a little foggy on Borough politics...but are the Council Memebers appointed by the Mayor? If so, I see no weight to his objection to turfing the field. If the Council is appointed - they speak for the Mayor regardless of his public persona. However, if they are elected, they can consider themselves political jackasses for pushing through a Bond that taxes the community for the benefit of the elite few lacrosse and soccer players of local schools. We need new side walks, damn it! Not plastic fields of dreams that will be long forgotten once junior is off to trade school because he was cut from the varsity squad. Sports are just that - sports. They don't bind a community, they don't embellish it with anything but...well... sportsmanship. I got a good taste of that from one of the community's little darlings the night of public comment on the Bond proposal. As my neighbor, a girl's soccer coach - of all people - was speaking out against the turfing, we heard repeatedly from kids in the audience - that probably should have been in bed as it was 10:30 - "why don't you just move!" Sad but that's what Dad and Mom have put all their mediocre effort into raising - insensitive, intractable little vermin - that despite losing that scholarship to Jersey City College will come back to this once beautiful community to work in Public Works. Where they will not really care about the gas lights that have been replaced by neon, or the crumbling sidewalks. All they will care about is that their little junior gets that precious lacrosse scholarship so they don't turn out like to good 'ol Mom & Dad. And so the circle of life continues. Anyone interested in a beautiful home accross from the once beautiful Caretert PARK - please let me know. I will be a motivated seller come Spring. GRAA members are preferred as I know they will do just about anything for the love of the game.
I'm a little foggy on Borough politics...but are the Council Memebers appointed by the Mayor? If so, I see no weight to his objection to turfing the field. If the Council is appointed - they speak for the Mayor regardless of his public persona. However, if they are elected, they can consider themselves political jackasses for pushing through a Bond that taxes the community for the benefit of the elite few lacrosse and soccer players of local schools. We need new side walks, damn it! Not plastic fields of dreams that will be long forgotten once junior is off to trade school because he was cut from the varsity squad. Sports are just that - sports. They don't bind a community, they don't embellish it with anything but...well... sportsmanship. I got a good taste of that from one of the community's little darlings the night of public comment on the Bond proposal. As my neighbor, a girl's soccer coach - of all people - was speaking out against the turfing, we heard repeatedly from kids in the audience - that probably should have been in bed as it was 10:30 - "why don't you just move!" Sad but that's what Dad and Mom have put all their mediocre effort into raising - insensitive, intractable little vermin - that despite losing that scholarship to Jersey City College will come back to this once beautiful community to work in Public Works. Where they will not really care about the gas lights that have been replaced by neon, or the crumbling sidewalks. All they will care about is that their little junior gets that precious lacrosse scholarship so they don't turn out like to good 'ol Mom & Dad. And so the circle of life continues. Anyone interested in a beautiful home accross from the once beautiful Caretert PARK - please let me know. I will be a motivated seller come Spring. GRAA members are preferred as I know they will do just about anything for the love of the game.
Yes, there can be flooding on Carteret Field. I, for one, would like to hear some discussions of installing a few french drains, as they do on golf courses, as well as reseeding/sodding a bit more aggressively. I live down somewhat near this park and would really like to see the field kept natural but in better shape - for what it's worth.
To Artifical G.R.
take a Tyneol PM and call it a night. I'm worried about you!
"Yeah, still hiding",
Sodding was deferred because the GRAA requested the town save money and try hydro-seeding, and because they felt that they had a good chance of persuading the council to put turf at Carteret Park. The council agreed because turf was being considered at Carteret Park. All of this was at a public meeting, and it makes sense, why would you spend the money to re-sod it if you were considering ripping it out?
As far as the scheduling is concerned, I believe that it was the town Recreation Department that suggested the changes at Carteret Park, again because the council was considering the turf proposal. This also makes sense, why bother considering a bond issue to turf the field if the field is unavailable?
And you are right, the whole purpose of open hearings is for the elected officials to consider the arguments and concerns presented by the citizens and there would have been nothing wrong with me "changing my mind," but in this case, as I said above,:
When the GRAA proposed turfing Carteret, I told the council and Bob Salvatelli (President of the GRAA) point-blank that I could not and would not even consider supporting a synthetic surface at Carteret Park unless it was supported by the neighborhood.
and from what I’ve heard from all the public meetings, and the emails and letters and phone calls, the neighbors are overwhelmingly opposed. I’ve been told that there are some neighbors who support this, if there are, I would say to them, like I have said to everyone, the council can’t read your mind, come to the open hearing, or send them a letter or an email.
Happy,
Debbie and I were 50/50 partners when we started Barista in 2004. Effective December 31st of that year I sold all but 5% of my interest in it, and I am no longer involved in any aspect of it (other than enjoying it as valuable resource for our communities).
Artificial,
Each of our six councilpersons were elected, they each serve 3-year terms (there is an election for two each November), and all six ran as independents on the "Civic Conference Committee" line.
I was elected to a 4-year term as mayor in 2003, I ran as an independent on the "Still Not CCC" line.
WIT says: "Our children travel to other towns and we are always blown away at the beautiful fields they all seem to have compared to ours."
And how many of those beautiful fields have artificial turf? Why can't we strive for beautiful grass fields? You want turf just because you're jealous that someone else can grow grass?
"N," you "live down somewhat near this park," yet must not have been in the park anytime in the past few years ... it HAS french drains already. But I agree with you, let's keep it natural. Hurrell Field is an athletic facility - go ahead and turf it. But Carteret is a neighborhood park ... I haven't heard any comments recently that turfing Carteret would therefore make it off limits to recreational fun for families ... which would be outrageously wrong.
didn't the GRAA oppose the town pool because they were interested in getting the space for a lacrosse field? does anyone remember this?
As I read through the discussion, I enjoy the lesson in civics I am getting.
It almost seems like many people want everyone to take a visible stand on the issue - no anonymity, if your for it then why aren't you speaking up, etc. Why not just have everyone hang green flags from their house if they want the bond for this to go forward and red if they want it to stop? Then we can pounce on those that don't take a stand and once we've divided and labelled the entire community we can really get to the fun part.
I would also be concerned with the idea that the local neighborhoods need to approve changes to town facilties. I am sure that the very necessary repairs to the school auditorium will increase the use of that facility. More cars parking more often around the school might be seen by local residents as less than optimum. Did we poll them? What if they were concerned? Forest avenue gets jammed up nightly with footbal practice and there are all kinds of cards parking there on the weekends for games. Can the residents of that street voice concerns and cut back on the scheduling there? What if residents by the garden wanted a cut back in parties and weddings? Would we even think of that? At the end of the meeting (after many left) I beleive there was a report on the efforts to move forward with the pool house upgrades. Can the neighborhood there (and yes I know the town has worked with them in the past to minimize the impact of activities) come back now and if no one on their street approves the new facility, stop that work?
I would agree that it is appropriate to listen to the local area and when we move forward on town initiatives we should look to minimize impact on the surrounding area, but if we are going to somehow give those living closest to town facilities a priority or greater weight in the discussion, I would think we need to make sure that we document what is done and how, so that it can be applied by all governing bodies going forward. Not only would that ensure that this is evenly applied as the town moves forward, but we can get an idea of how it will effect our ability to move.
Perth Amboy just opened their new football field up with new turf. Cost $1 million. Cost to town zero. Abbott funding at its finest. NJ is a joke and its corrupt politicians will continue to fleece the middle class. Abbott funding is nothing but a way for Democrats to continue recieving support from the poor. Keep offering free hand outs and the votes will follow.
confused, are you saying that you are moving?
Who is Abboott?
Why is he giving away money?
How do I get some?
Not only would that ensure that this is evenly applied as the town moves forward, but we can get an idea of how it will effect our ability to move (forward)
To answer your question:
Who is Abboott?
Abbott funding is a payment system designed to buy votes for the corrupt New Jersey Democrats under the guise of helping the less fortunate.
Why is he giving away money?
They are giving away so much money because its easy to tax the middle class in NJ and not get any push back.
How do I get some?
Easy, quit work, sit on your ass all day, smoke crack, have as many illegitimate kids as possible and blame others for your situation. The money will come flowing in. In return all you have to do is look the other way and allow the political machine in Trenton to award no bid contracts to friends and set up no show jobs.
I believe Abbott districts are low-income communities that get extra educational funding from the state. Then there are Abbott-rim districts (those abutting Abbott districts), of which Montclair is one (not sure about Glen Ridge, but seems likely), which seek some aid because of their proximity to same. Do I have that right?
"In return all you have to do is look the other way and allow the political machine in Trenton to award no bid contracts to friends"
WOW sounds like Remsen's Town Council in Montclair- No Bid Contracts for ALL of our friends
Maybe we should be calling him ED "NO BID NEEDED" REMSEN
instead of
ED "the puking Mayor" REMSEN
In response to these few idiots....
I look forward to seeing the kids in town walking around on crutches and with big gauze bandages over their hideous scrapes. Go ahead and turf...I'll later say " I told you so. "
The town council is absolutely getting paid off. Why else wouldn't there be the common sense compromise solution?
Posted by: wow | September 27, 2006 10:00 PM
This is because the safety and hygene of artificial surfaces is poor. Additionally, preserving the appeal of this town with gas lamps and old victorian homes, is important. You can put turf in your yard, too....Why not? Because it looks stupid.
Posted by: not on Lorraine | September 27, 2006 10:11 PM
And how many of those beautiful fields have artificial turf? Why can't we strive for beautiful grass fields? You want turf just because you're jealous that someone else can grow grass?
Posted by: Alford | September 28, 2006 1:19 AM
______________________________
YOU PEOPLE CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TURF IS LIKE THESE DAYS. I CAN GAURANTEE THAT DRIVING BY A TURFED FIELD, YOU WOULD HAVE NO IDEA THAT IT WAS NOT REAL GRASS. TODAY'S TURFED FIELDS DO NOT POSE THE SAME RISKS OF INJURY AS THE OLD ONES. THIS IS NOT ASTROTURF!!!!!!!!! ASK ANY ORTHOPEDIC SURGEON OR SPORTS MED DOCTOR WHO HAS A CLUE.
Honestly, I think a lot of people are worried about the aesthetics of this and are hiding behind other excuses. Perhaps bringing a sample of turf to one of these meetings would be beneficial. Anyone? Bueller?
Comparisons with the "Town Pool" are disingenuous. It is not a town pool. It is a private pool for its members only. Members pay a yearly fee. And the GRAA bashing is terrible. It is a wonderful organization that has created a great sense of community and athleticism for our children. I also think based on my observations that continued efforts to maintain grass at Carteret are foolish and wasteful.. I would prefer grass fields but reality is that grass can't handle the usage.
Ms. pro-turf is correct in her argument above. It doesn't sound like many people understand the quality and technology available in filed turf surfaces these days. Have any of you even walked on a new turf field? Here's one example. I'm sure if you google you can find plenty more....
http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/09.14/18-stadium.html
To Hiding - I am dissapointed you would make the generalization so many people do... Judging all of Glen Ridge by the "tudors with day laborers" on Ridgewood Ave. Drive down Carteret St, or Willow or Chestnut Hill or MANY others. There are many residents living in average houses with 1.5 bathrooms and a postage stamp size yard. Both parents work and we don't have nannies. All of Montclair isn't Upper Mountain Ave is it? Yes, we live in a lovely upscale community, but we are working hard just to make ends meet. We want ever tax dollar used as wisely as possible, and for the town to not spend beyond it's means unnecessarily. That said, I feel Hurrell field is certainly in need of repairs. Whether Fieldturf is the smartest & most cost effective solution is the debate. Carteret Park in my opinion is fine as is.
Anyone else think the anti-turf side is calm and reasoned, while the folks who are pro-turf are nearly unhinged (evident by the ALL CAPS POST ABOVE)? You think the graa spikes its members drinks with amphetamine?
MS. pro-turf ,
Will the turf be flammable like Montclair's?
MS. pro-turf ,
Will the turf be flammable like Montclair's?
MS. pro-turf ,
Will the turf be flammable like Montclair's?
Anyone else think the anti-turf side is calm and reasoned, while the folks who are pro-turf are nearly unhinged (evident by the ALL CAPS POST ABOVE)? You think the graa spikes its members drinks with amphetamine?
Posted by: Hiding in Baristaville | September 28, 2006
No, it's just that athlete's tend to have higher levels of circulating testosterone. People who lead sedentary lifestyles need to remain calm or they might get winded, have a heart attack, etc.
I believe that it has been stated either in this thread or the previous one that turfing Hurrell would cause a 30% decrease in play on Carteret Park. I imagine that a 30% decrease would go a long way into improving the conditions at Carteret. The field there does not need to be entirely resodded, yes there are bare areas at midfield and in front of the two goals but the remainder is in good shape. A little more maintenance above and beyond this summer’s lame effort to grow grass would do wonders. The savings for turfing only one field should help defray the maintenance for Carteret. Let the GRAA pony up something to help on the maintenance if it is so unplayable.
What happens when a GRAA little leaguer takes one off the face from an aluminum bat powered screaming one hop line drive off of the miraculous field turf?
There is a reason that only three major league baseball teams still play on the artificial stuff.
I think that the reduction in field use was stated to be 40%. What is the surface at MKA's field on Bloomfield Avenue?
I've driven by plenty of artificial turf fields - the one in Brookdale Park, the one in Montclair near the railroad tracks, the one in Montclair right off of Bloomfield ... none of those have "tricked" me into thinking they were grass. The turf inside the Ashley's soccer dome is pretty cool, but I would guess it's probably an indoor-only type.
Serious Questions About
New-Generation Artificial Turf
That Require Answers
In order to make fiscally and environmentally sound decisions regarding the potential purchase and installation of artificial turf in their communities, decision makers must consider all short- and long-term issues and concerns.
Artificial turf is being widely promoted as a cost-efficient, environmentally- and user-friendly product that can replace natural grass on sports fields and home lawn areas.
Unfortunately a large number of unsubstantiated claims are being made by promoters of the new-generation artificial turf products (particularly those that incorporate ground rubber as part of their base).
Claims made by many artificial promoters include some or all of the following:
Significant questions about the validity of these claims deserve answers.
Of equal or greater concern are questions that typically will not arise during the normal artificial turf sales presentation process, in particular issues related to the health and safety of our children and serious threats to our environment.
These issues require answers.
In a world where we all want the best for our children and where professional or even high school level coaches want the best for their athletes, we search for solutions that on the surface may seem the perfect answer. As experience has proven time and again, "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is," is an adage worthy of contemplation when consideration is being given to constructing an artificial turf area. While "fraud" is a highly charged word, some claims made by some artificial turf companies may fall within the legal definition of that term, while other claims may only be deceptive, over-statements, misstatements or misunderstandings.
The issues raised by the following questions are intended to assist in the decision-making process by focusing on real and serious areas of concern.
Insist on answers to these concerns.
HEALTH CONCERNS
Health and safety are two major principles that guide many of the decisions individuals, parents, athletes and coaches as well as appointed and elected officials must make on a daily basis. When decisions impact children or the environment, ignorance is no excuse, neither is falling under the guile of an agenda- or commission-driven salesperson.
Ground tire rubber
is used in some artificial fields as an impact-softening base. The toxic content (including heavy metals) of tires prohibits their disposal in landfills or through ocean dumping. Yet, this toxic material is being allowed (in large quantities) where children and professional athletes come into direct contact with it.Temperatures on artificial fields have been documented to be upwards of 86.5 degrees (F) hotter than natural grass fields under identical conditions. For example, at one location, when the natural grass surface temperature was 93.5 degrees (F), the measured artificial field temperature was 180 degrees (F).
Field sanitation that includes removal of bodily fluids (spittle, blood, sweat, vomit, urine), and/or bird or animal droppings may present a unique problem for artificial fields.
Abrasive surfaces can result in difficult-to-heal injuries, particularly in the presence of bacterial or viral pathogens.
Field hardness (either too hard or too soft a surface) can result in serious chronic or immediate athletic injury.
Athlete Health and Career
-Longevity can be seriously jeopardized by exposureto extreme temperatures, overly hard or overly soft surfaces, greater speed at point of impact (with the field or other players) and staphylococcus (staph) infections caused by parasitic bacterium present on the playing surface.
ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERNS
Ground rubber and artificial turf particulates are present on the playing field and in the surrounding spectator stands. Pesticides and cleansing products may be routinely applied to the surface, with unknown consequences to the environment.
COST CONCERNS
The initial purchase price of an artificial surface (sports field or home lawn) is many times greater than a natural grass area; however, promoters of the artificial products maintain that tremendous costs savings will be forthcoming because of reduced maintenance costs, as well as the product’s warranty.
Because many of the artificial products are relatively new and not tested over time and use, no- or low-cost maintenance requirement claims that are consistently made by promoters of artificial surfaces may prove to be highly exaggerated.
Wow! This is a wonderful document. Thank you for all the work it obviously required. I had been ok with installation at Hurrell but now I am not so sure. There are some questions here that had not occurred to me and I have not heard from others. One additional one is, if the turf is irrigated to reduce the temperature, does the resulting increase in humidity neutralize the decrease in temperature?
I think that the pro turf crowd is putting on a great display of the "Me Generation" at its finest. I was born a little after the end of the "Baby Boom", so I don't know where that puts me exactly(in generational terms that is). I find it truly incredible to see what some of us view as a necessity. I learned a long time ago that there is a basic difference between wanting something and needing it. We don't as many have stated "need turf now". I'm sure that quite a few sports parents have the best interests of their kids in mind; however, turf fields are not now nor have they ever been a necessity. I understand that many a parent wants what's best for their child, and a nice playing surface seems like something to strive for. What I don't understand is the tenacity of the crowd when they can't get their own way. Could they be in the minority? We will never know, becuase this issue is not to be put up for a town wide vote. But I say, why not live vicariously through your children while you have the chance.
If Ridgewood Ave was a dirt road and we could fix it would we? Yes so your nice car wouldn't get broken, our kids can play on unsafe fields?
Who wrote the article above? Is it published or was it a stream of thought by the writer?
I have just returned from a trip to Brookdale Park to inspect the football-sized turf field that was installed there. After crossing a plain of actual grass, waving in the breeze and spotted here and there with worn places where the living soil shone through, I came through the gate of a tall fence and beheld the field of artificial grass. It looked nothing like grass at all. To my eyes the field appeared to be nothing more than the surface of an enormous pool table. In bright sunlight I thought the fake turf was pretty much the color of cheap felt, and I could almost imagine a bunch of enormous pool balls laying strewn about. The surface is so uniformly and unnaturally flat that I’m sure there isn’t a square inch that’s not perfectly level. Very unnatural. On closer inspection the “grass†looked like the stuff you put in an Easter basket, except so tightly woven that it appears almost solid. When you drag your foot across it, little chunks of rubbery stuff fly into the air and then descend again into the plastic mass. I picked up a few of these pellets, and thought they looked like the stuff at the bottom of a rabbit’s pen. This artificial turf looks as much like real grass as a bad toupee looks like real hair. I am not fooled. I imagine having a picnic on a field like this, or playing frisbee with my kids, and it makes me want to stay home. I’ve heard again and again how you can’t tell this stuff from real grass. Our kids can play on it all hours and all seasons, and it’s only going to cost each and every one of us a couple of hundred bucks a year! As the old saying goes, team sport fans, don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s rain.
Dan,
It a Sports Playing Surface. For the Sport Playing Fields. If you want to walk your dog or play Frisbee there is plenty of room for that.In Brookdale or Watsessing Park Hurrell and Carteret FIELDS. Get it.
amazing how so many people who are so sure of themselves make sure that they post anonymously...hmm.
sic of morons,
It's Carteret PARK.
In Glen Ridge, with limited public assets for everyone, sharing of commom space is a necessity. Sports surfaces for sports-playing-fields only? Sounds a bit greedy to me. Maybe "sic of morons" should move someplace where everyone is of a like mind...like some of the sports nuts recommend home-owners move away from Cartaret Street if they don't like glaring krieg lights and parents and coaches hollering well into the evening and all day on weekends, all year round. Didn't they know when they bought their houses that artificial turf was the wave of the future?
My objections to turf are many, but I brought up the aesthetic problem because everyone, not just the fighting teams, will have to look at this stuff. I don't like "fake" anything. Why bother to make a surface for a playing field look like fake grass? It's such a poor copy, the whole notion lacks imagination, at the very least. (Don't object, please, on the grounds that sports players are not concerned with imagination!) Why not have it colored gray, like pavement, or blue or purple? Why have it look like the contents of my kid's easter basket when it could be shaped like anything else? Plastic can take on many forms. If the proponents of artificial surfaces are so gung-ho on it's attributes, don't settle for crappy-looking fake grass. It's an insult to Mother Nature, as well as, for many other reasons, to most of the residents of this town.
Mayor,
One possible way to reduce the bond amount is to begin charging the Bloomfield residents for the free DOOR TO DOOR jitney service they receive to/from the GR train station.
or better yet how about charging the GRAA to use the fields and when you've collected enough money then do the turf.
This seems like robery that the council members would push this through despite all the opposition. If they are that confident that the majority of the town is for it then put it to a town vote. I say impeach the council.
This seems like robery that the council members would push this through despite all the opposition. If they are that confident that the majority of the town is for it then put it to the town for a vote. I say impeach the council.
carteret park is a family park, a neighborhood park and a playing field.
graa needs to be a little(a lot)less selfish. families and children of all ages play in the grass in this park too. we love it.
please dont destroy our park by covering it with artifical turf.
we can all enjoy it as a beautiful, cool natural grass park.
Bob--what are you doing with the 250K annually? Why doesn't anyone from the graa stand up and offer to help pay for what yu want?
As my name suggests, I am a former GR athlete, I graduated about 4 years ago. I believe turfing Hurrell field is a necessity for all the kids and programs of GR. I literally laughed out loud due to the comment above about turf being "too flat". I would MUCH rather play on a field that is flat rather than hoping you don't sprain your ankle with every step you take due to all the divots and bumps on hurrell field. Turf fields have been much improved over the earlier versions which caused injuries,however no turf would cause more injuries than the mud pit named hurell has over the years. Also they must have resodded the grass at least 3 out of 4 years I was in high school, we had to alter our practices in order to TRY and preserve the sod from overuse but in the end it would never work, the grass would be gone a couple of weeks into the season. It is also pretty amusing that in all my 20 or so years living in GR I have hardly ever seen people out enjoying Hurrell field, now that it may be turfed all the masses come out claiming to love using Hurrell all the time and if it was turfed they wouldn't be able to do so. Where have you been all these years? Don't get me started about the track surrounding the field, try running on that gravel all day and blow your nose afterwards, NOT a pretty sight. To be fair, I don't see the need in turfing Carteret also, it seems like overkill to me and also many sports are better played on real grass.
Bob--what are you doing with the 250K annually?
By Say Something
I find this to be the most ignorant statement to date.
Why dont you attend the annual meeting of the GRAA where you can obtain all full accounting of the funds that run through GRAA. At the meeting you can see where it goes additionally you can look around the room and see a group ( a slim select few, you might want to try to give back also )who VOLUNTEER (No cash, no payola) countless hours to organize, and run, an orginization that if it was passed onto a goverment orginization, I am sure it could loose thousands of dollars each year. The fact is when there are excess funds they are donated back to the system, last year new wrestling mats for the high school and equipment for the lacrosse team come to mind. I guess that was not considered by your very narrow mind. Fees lets talk about that, I have a highschol athelete I pay $200.00 extra for that, I have two grade school kids I pay $200 per seaon for that, That is $800.00 out of my pocket. Am I complaining, no just giving all of you who do not support the GRAA (do you donate to the kids) the facts about fees. I have been involved with the people of GRAA for ten years, Bob Salvatelli has just recently taken the job as head of GRAA, Bob also has the high paying job sitting on the board of education. The past president Jim Lopes and his wife Maria have given more to this community in that ten year period than you can dream of. (I do not wish to slight others who have volunteered their time their are many). I just want you all to be aware of the people who give unselfishly of their time and love for GR. GRAA is not the evil empire GRAA is a group of parents that have made a decision to give back to the community. They do not get paid ( except for those jackets paid for with GRAA funds I do belive the coaches are entitled to something the cost of a jacket,$50 bucks the number of hours VOLUNTEERED 100 you do the math) Mayor Bergmanson you have a responsibility to set the record straight, this is not GRAA versus the town it is hundreds of volunteers who want to provide an opportunity for all of the children in Glen Ridge.
Carl,
I was once your neighbor. I played touch Football with you on Sunday mornings. I supported and voted for you and asked family and friends to vote for you. I did this because I thought then that you would make an Honest Mayor someone who would work to make the town better.
I have been a Volunteer Coach in town from the day I moved in. It's something I really enjoy. I spend alot of time on our Playing Fields, they are a disgrace.
At the Town Meeting you stated that it is the responsibility of the Mayor and Council that if something is in disrepair that you would do your best to fix it. You agreed that the fields were in disrepair, you also agreed that attempts to Seed or Sod had failed.
At the Town Meeting you stated " I do not have a vote. Thank God I don't".
your words. You said that the Council would gather all the information and make a decision and the you would BACK THE COUNCIL on that decision.
I have been told by people that I am selfish for wanting this Bond approved. If selfish is wanting what's best for my children then yes I'm selfish. I want the Best Schools,the best Teachers,the best Books,the best Auditurioms,the best Library,the best Town Hall,the best DPW yard,the best Police Department,the best Tennis Courts, and yes the best Playgrounds,Parks and Playing Fields. does that make me selfish, a Bully? If my wife and I need to cut back on 3 or 4 dinners out per year to offset this cost then that's what we'll do. I see this as an incredible opportunity to improve our Beautiful Town.
In closing I'm sorry to say the Mayor I see now is one who talks down to his Council Members, belittles residents and does not hold true to his statements,please allow the Council to do what will make our TOWN better.
Respectfully.
Jim Grady
I think what Jim Grady doesn't understand is that the potential increase in taxes for the ENTIRE bond, not just the fields, is more than "3 or 4 dinners out per year" for some families. It's a month worth of groceries. It's deciding WHICH kid of your three gets to participate in an activity. It's new shoes for the kids for a year.
So while families like Jim Grady's may just be able to write that check, others will have to decide what REAL necessity goes unattended.
Say Something: You expect the GRAA or Bob Salvatelli to respond to annonymous posters on this ridiculous forum? Why don't you pick the phone up & call Bob if you are concerned. You have every right to do so, therefore, there is no reason to not identify yourself when you call. The GRAA has an annual meeting each year where a financial report is disseminated. There is nothing untoward nor is anyone hiding anything. How ludicrious that you think that this forum is a place where you can annonymously demand this information. This site means nothing to the GRAA. Frankly, it's frightening that our Mayor would rather share information here than in public. But at least he does identify himself. By the way, this is not a GRAA only issue. The primary field user is the High School. It's amazing that some people have tried to vilify the GRAA here. This group does more in this town than any other. They are not the enemy.
Carteret for the most part is not a park, there is no pond, families do not layout and have picnics there. It is a playing field plain and simple, and almost everyday of every week, our town sport programs need to use it. If I understand correctly the Mayor has stated himself that nothing else has worked. So, if we want to be able to properly use the field, turf is the only way to accomplish this. As for the tax increase, please just stop it! The amount that it is going to increase is minimal compared to the benefits. All of it is needed, not just the fields. Enjoy your weekend.
just looked at the turf field at brookdale. funny, it looks like it needs a good vacuum.
and who play football on that field? anyone know?
God Like,
If the Bond goes through please send me your childrens Shoe Sizes. I will gladly buy them a new pair. I'm serious...
There is comparision between the field at Brookdale & the newer generation fields.
Should have read NO comparision.
Dear Extremely Concerned,
I live on Carteret street right by the park. Let me tell you, it IS a park.
Live across from it for 3-4 years, watch it for season after season, day after day, and you will see people getting a lot of use out of one of the few open spaces in GR.
WHen the field is not gated off with temporary fences (as it is now) people do play on the field, fly kites, sled in the winter, and run around playing touch football in the summer at dusk. I see the use of this field by the community every single day -- it is only used a few hours a day for sports for a few months out of the year. The rest of the day, people do use the field as a nice open space.
Carteret Park is a PARK for everyone in the area, it should not be turned into a HS athletic field with turf which would be hotter, costlier, harsher on skinned knees and have to be replaced in 5 years anyway.
As a resident of Carteret St, I am strongly letting the officials of this town know that turf is not wanted.
Seems like the tone of "Pro" comments are starting to change. Getting a little nervous are we?
Mr. Mayor. Most people today, don't understand that governing requires tough choices. They are part of the entitlement generation that puts "me" first. Stand strong even if you loose a couple of so called friends.
TURFERS> YOU WANT IT, YOU PAY FOR IT. SKIP A FEW DINNERS, HOLD A BAKE SALE!
SHOW YOUR KIDS WHAT IT MEANS TO GIVE NOT ONLY YOURSELF, BUT WHAT YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT. YOUR MONEY.
Oh yeah I forgot. Can't wait for three years down the road when GRAA comes back and says: "Kids cant see the ball, we need lights."
This is the description of Carteret Park (AKA Barrows FIELD), this of course comes from the official web site of GR. Next question.
Athletic & Recreational Facilities
Carteret Park: Enter on Carteret Street or Lorraine Street located between Midland Avenue and Hawthorne Avenue. Features include children's playground, regulation baseball diamond, softball/youth baseball diamond, soccer field, skate park (seasonal) and field house.
Forest Avenue Field: Located on Forest Avenue between Sunset Avenue and Glen Ridge Parkway. Features include children's playground, softball/youth baseball diamond, field hockey/soccer field.
Sherman Avenue Field: Located on Sherman Avenue between Bay Avenue and Baldwin Street. Features include softball/youth baseball diamond, and youth soccer field.
Clay Field: Located at the intersection of Sherman Avenue and Belleville Avenue. Features include children's playground, youth softball/tee-ball diamond, youth soccer field and paddleball courts.
Hurrell Field: Enter on Bloomfield Avenue or Belleville Avenue located between Highland Avenue and Herman Street. Features include regulation baseball diamond, football/soccer field, quarter-mile running track and basketball court and field house.
You don't have to wait three years...it's already in the mix.
Brookdale is a new surface isn't it?
Dear Jess,
If I was unclear my apologies, but you are correct on how it is being used, and it will continue to be used that was with the turf, and will be better. And I hope that everyone in the town will use it even more! The even better news, is there will be no more fences (like now). Also, the expected life of the turf is 10 years not five. Enjoy the Field.
Dear Mr.Epstein, Unfortunetly those FIELDS are fenced off alot arent they? Do you realize that when the FIELD TURF is installed you'll be able to fly your kite 12 months a year?
As for I was taught.
Do you think the Municipal employees should also dig into their pockets to pay for a new roof? Should the Police officers pay for the improvements to their Department maybe they should use their own cars on the job? How about our Public Workers? maybe they could work on the side as landscapers and donate that money for their imporvements......
SaySomethingtoWho says: "You expect the GRAA or Bob Salvatelli to respond to annonymous posters on this ridiculous forum?
Then how ridiculous must you be to post anonymously as well? Hypocrite.
Dear Mr. Grady, actually they are only fenced off in the soccer season to stop the balls rolling too far. the summer and spring (if i recall) have no such fencing.
the turf would be fenced in to protect it from abuse/overuse/dog doo wouldn't it?
if not, it would be even more wasteful than it already is.
I strongly encourage all sides of the debate to study this pdf
http://www.sportsturfmanager.org/_Files/_Items/STMA-MR-TAB2-1416/Docs/STMA%20SyntheticTurfGuideHI.pdf
It is a great, factual document about how much it will take to care and maintain a turf field.
I especially bring to your attention the long list of equipment needed to adequately maintain the surface (page 10), including specail grooming and brushing equipment as well as the heat which can be 95-140 degrees hotter (on surface leve) than grass, and can cause damage to players. If turf does go in, i hope the GRAA will have an infared thermometer measuring temperatures on the turf fields and will call off play if it is past a safe point.
I also think that this link to Purdue's turf grass agriculture dept.
http://www.agry.purdue.edu/turf/tips/2006/sf424.htm
raises other points which should be considered when looking at the program the GRAA wants.
If the board votes yes, (and i hope it does not!) but if it does we have to invest the money to make sure the fields are maintained at
a very high level.
Obviously, managing drainage, soil preservation, fertilizer, aerating, reseeding, and using pesticides/herbicides on the grass at hurrell and carteret to maintain the fields was not properly done.
Sincerely,
CANTOR (Not Mr.) Epstein
i predict endless arguement & nothing getting done, other than the bond getting voted down because of this. face it, like Bloomfield, you'll ultimately have to fix up your HS football field. i recommend getting only the HS field done, purists will have to endure that horror, it's upkeep may save the town $$, maybe that can be their silver lining. i'll give two reasons for why this is how it should go: first, i think it would be good for the students, secondly, the compromise would keep people living in GR, they won't move to our town where there are three magnificent fields and a modest middle class of happy campers
Mr. Dephillips and Say something to who,
I think as taxpayers we deserve to know the budget of the GRAA. Their financial statement should definitely affect this debate and vote since they are the primary users of these fields. No, I am not going to attend a GRAA annual meeting or call Bob.
But is there a public record or internet address where this info is accessible? Perhaps it would shed some light on why every citizen of this town needs to pay for turf.
of course one could picnic on a turf surface, but it is not the same as grass. go see it. it is not the same, and i wouldn't consider sitting on it a treat.
Apples and Oranges, Jimmie.
Again, the GRAA is not hiding anything. They have no obligation at all to post that information on this website. You want to complain and cast aspersions, yet you're not willing to attend a meeting or make a call or even send an e-mail for that matter. This site is not an official Town site. You think volunteers who give countless hours of their free time to the children of this town care what you say?
Just got my "new" tax bill!
My taxes have officially doubled in just over five years. Now the question is how much more they want to raise it. The higher the taxes go, the less money I can sell my house for (not that I want to move, but you all may be taxing me out of here) so tying to raise money for turf through donations would make more sense to me, but STILL not at Carteret Park.
Why not wait on the turf, or just not turf Carteret Park. By installing turf you will only take away the "Parks" natural beauty. This town (or at least 80%+) is mostly historic. You drive down these nice gas-lamped streets with the historic housing, then BAM!, you'll get turf shocked. I'm here for my children's EDUCATION, not for the GRAA. As far as our mayor goes, I believe he has done a fine job and does not deserve the way he has been treated by the "elite" in town.
The revaluation is next. I'd personally like to see the streets and sidewalks fixed first. Please wait, I just can't afford this anymore!!!!
Maybe we can do away with the CCC and get some real thinkers in here that will get what we deserve from the State and not be lead around by their noses. Glen Ridge is nice, but (based on the property taxes) BUT, not that nice.
Mitch: The difference is, I might be posting annonomously but I'm not saying anything negative about someone else. By the way, you posted annon. also tough guy!
Jim,
First of all, it was never my intent to belittle you, or anyone else. I don't believe that you are being selfish for wanting the fields improved; I want them improved as well, and in fact I am committed to improving the playing conditions at all of our playing fields. I dislike personal attacks, and I have not engaged in any, despite having my character unfairly impugned here and at the council meeting.
I was disappointed that instead of calling me, or writing me, or emailing me, like hundreds of other folks have done (many of whom I’ve never met), you instead chose to attack me anonymously here in this forum. That said, I do understand that you have strong feelings on this issue because you care about our town.
I have made every effort to be upfront on this issue, and I have said from the beginning that I would not support turf at Carteret if it was not supported by the neighbors.
You are also correct to say that this is the council’s vote. It is, and I support their right to make that vote, but state statute is very clear that I am to be a part of the discussion leading up to that vote, and that that vote is just another step in the process. As Council President Mehrotra made clear at the last meeting, the Council has not yet voted. Until they do, I will continue to try and persuade them that the best way to proceed is to come to a consensus.
Carl
P.S. When I said “Thank God I don't†that was an attempt to introduce a bit of levity into the discussion. Obviously, since I’m going to have to make whatever is ultimately decided actually happen, I would want as much input into the decision as possible.
I watched the council meeting on Channel 36 today and was surprised the way a few of my fellow citizens acted, even though they knew the cameras were rolling. George Buchman made a good point it seems. The stuff can get extremely hot, hotter than a natural grass field. I believe he stated 140 degrees. That's a bit much don't you think? As a kid playing in the grass during the summer I don't ever recall having to worry about 2nd degree burns.
SaySomethingToWho wrote:
Frankly, it's frightening that our Mayor would rather share information here than in public.
That's a pretty unfair statement. I have spoken at every public meeting and done my best to answer every question. In fact, after the drop-in session I was hoarse the next day. I have spoken to people on the corner, in my car, while walking to the post office and for hours on the phone. And I have received hundreds of email, and have personally replied to each one.
In addition, we have made the staff available and brought in outside experts to meet with the public at the drop-in meeting, and we should have a detailed cost analysis of sod vs. grass up on the town website by this afternoon, along with an explanation of the remaining steps in the bond process which I'm working on right now.
Dear How Do (use a real name and I will get a copy and deliver to your house)
Currently GRAA is working on expanding the website GRAA.org to include the financial statement. Unfortunately for now you must get a copy from Bob, but as I stated I will bring one to you.
The money that comes into GRAA pays for all of its own expenses (no tax to you). If there are any excess funds they are donated to the town facilities in need.
Please let me know why you do not want to see children exercise, compete, participate in a team enviroment,and develop self esteem in a safe enviroment
It cannot be that you hate children, because you are apparantley there for the library, the rennovation of town hall.
If you want to examine financial statements I suggest you speak to our town administrators and ask them about the projected increase in tax revnues that the town will be recieving with the adition of Mountainside Hospital changing to a for profit orginization, the taxable units that will be added with the new development of 78 housing units on Bloomfield Avenue. Best guess estimate, an additional 3 Million of revenue that could pay off all of the improvements in two and a half years.
I do not believe incounting my chickens before eggs hatch. So let's not count on those revenues, especially since if I were looking for a place to live and stumbled onto this site I would believe that Glen Ridge is a town that does not want the best for their children.
I have stated publicly but I must say it again, I do not strive for mediocrity,in my family life, or in my work, why then should I except it in my community.
I am on record asking this question of our Mayor. He explained they look to have the fields in good repair.I do not want good repair, I strive for excellent solutions to age old problems. How old look to some of the ridgers who claim to have played on broken fields assuming that they are not maikng the story up, thats 20+ years.
Very simple, to those who have commented on the fact that we do not need to be embarassed when other towns come to visit. We do not need to keep up with the Jonses! I couldnt agree more, we should be the JONSES and let them chase us.
Remember, if you moved here recently what were your motivations; schools, easy commute to NYC, a safe enviroment. If you moved here twenty years ago and your children are gone, come to Hurrell field tomorrow starting at 8:30 am and watch the magic of kids playing football, its FREE ( I know you will like that) and you will see people who VOLUNTEER because they care.
Mayor: How do you know that Mr. Grady posted annonymously? Do you have access to this information?
Enough with the debate how hot it gets or whether it is safe. There are these kinds of fields all over the country and this is not being mentioned as one of the problems with these fields. This is not a heat issue. I suggest George Buchman spend some time down south and see what real heat is.
In addition, I find it interesting that one of the founders of this website would knock people for using it the way it was set-up. How much activity do you think you would get if everyone had to identify themselves? How much advertising would be lost? This is how these sites work. Don't knock people for using it the way you developed it!
It is ironic that Carl was disappointed about the anonymous posting on this site. Carl, didn't you set the rules as a founder prior 50% owner and current 5% owner?
Are we now approaching McCarthy style politics where a controversial public speaker is brandished "YOU ARE AN ANONYMOUS ONLINE POSTER!"?
After all, if Mr Grady was so concerned about confidentiality why would he get up and confront you in public?
What does it matter to the Mayor if he was or not posting. The Man got up and spoke directly to him, let him know his concerns, and then 2 cousilmen agreeded.
Why the personal attacks on the Mayor? Can't we just debate the stupidity of turning Carteret Park into a giant welcome mat?
As I said previously, and as you clearly read, I am not involved in any aspect of this site (other than as a user). Therefore, I have no access of any kind to any information about who posted what, nor do I have any say in how the site is constructed, edited, run, or anything else related to it.
The site is set up for people to post their names, some choose not to. Frankly, I don't generally have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with people who choose to hide behind anonymity in any medium to personally attack anyone.
Like most useful things, it is possible to use Baristanet for good or ill. The fault with using it for ill lies with the user, not the site.
How dare you state in public to Mr. Grady "next time you post on the internet use your name". How do you know he posted and what gives you the right to knock anyone to use this site like the majority of the people do.
First of all, I'm not knocking Mr. Grady. He was a good neighbor and he's a nice guy who does a lot for the kids he coaches. He's even a pretty good quarterback.
While it is true that quite a few people post here anonymously, very few of them use this site to personally attack others, and when they do, let me go on the record as saying that I'm disappointed with each of them.
In any case, your argument is flawed. Even if every single person here posted anonymous personal attacks on others, that would not make any individual attack any more acceptable.
It appears that the arguments are so incredibly contentious because the town is completey divided on the issue. Let's face it: we all are grateful to the coaches for volunteering their time. I am sure your children enjoy it most of all. We all would love to live in an ideal town with state of the art facilities. There just doesn't appear to have been any concrete studies completed to determine the cost, the environmental impact, the tax ramifications, etc. Why can't studies be completed and the town be given the benefit of a vote?
Did you have knowledge of Mr. Grady posting? Yes or No! Basically, you were calling him a coward for posting annonymously immediately after he addressed you to your face. Does that make sense?
Catrinka,
The way the state sets all of this out is a long, drawn-out process.
Frankly, since none of us has ever done this before, to some extent, we have to learn it as we go along. Over the last two days, the town administration and our attorney have been researching the entire process, and the administration is putting together a step-by-step description of the entire process for the Mayor and Council to follow.
I have asked that a copy of that guideline be placed on the Borough website once it is completed, because I'm sure the public has questions about it as well.
Of course, I’m not an attorney, and I haven’t seen the final document yet, but as it has been explained to me, this cannot be put out to a binding referendum at this point in the process. However, there is a point later in process, once a bond ordinance is finally passed and published, that the public may challenge the bond ordinance in court, or they can petition to have it placed on the ballot.
"I want the Best Schools,the best Teachers,the best Books,the best Auditurioms,the best Library,the best Town Hall,the best DPW yard,the best Police Department,the best Tennis Courts, and yes the best Playgrounds,Parks and Playing Fields."
It's just a shame you cant give them the best Fantasy Football team ;)
Keep it up Jimmy, you are fighting a good fight.
If we are going to debate this, let's debate with facts.
The primary user of the fields in Glen Ridge is not the High School. If you look at the field use on the borough website (supplied by the recreation department), the HS currently has 43% of the events scheduled at Hurrell and 29% of the events scheduled at Carteret.
Therefore, 57% of the events at Hurrell and 71% of the events at Carteret are scheduled by the GRAA.
My husband and I are residents on Carteret street and our living room window overlooks the park.
I see the use of Carteret Park by the community every single day -- NOT only for students in organized sports.
Carteret Park is a park for everyone in Glen Ridge and we are happy to live across the way from such a beautiful green space.
It will be a shame to see gas lights illuminating plastic grass and comprising the asthetic of the surrounding neighborhood. In addition, it will be hard to deal with the increased traffic problems, noise, sky high fence that eventurally goes around the field (to fend off vandalism-to protect our >$1 million investment) and the stadum lights that go in after a long battle predicted by the neighborhood in the near future. And on top of that our property value depleting in result, along with an increase in taxes.
Please help save the green space on Carteret Street from artificial turf.
As residents of Carteret St, we want to let the Mayor and Council know that artificial turf is not wanted.
There are countless people who give to this town in a thousand ways and have done so for well over 100 years. We wouldn’t have the community we do if that were not the case. Bob gives a great deal of time, so does Carl and so do a lot of other people. None should be insulted…questioned but not insulted.
If the financial impact were merely a question of shoes for one family’s children, we would have no problem. This is a community that would quietly take care of those naked feet. The bigger problem is that there are many families who live here and never intended to leave but are now questioning their ability to stay here. And by families I mean households with or without children.
Taxes have been high here as compared to other communities for a long time but I think the differential may be greater now. At one time, we actually did get more that the paltry state aid we now receive. The people who built the town we chose for our families deserve to be able stay here. Do we really think this should be a community where there are only families with children? We think there are problems now? Do you realize what would happen if an additional 10% of houses turned over on top of those that would typically change ownership? New residents usually have children or are planning on it. Tipping the scale further toward households with children means a need for more school space…and even more fields.
While high taxes are our biggest problem, it is one over which we have limited control unless we decide to abandon the core asset of the community, our educational system…something we can probably agree we don’t want to do. Trenton would prefer to just do away with towns like ours. This bond issue is one way we can impact the size of our tax bills and is a much bigger question than whether we install artificial playing surfaces or not. I am reminded of the adage, “be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.â€
Compromises have also been made in the past. The original proposal for the school auditorium was, as I recall, at least 1.5 million. It was scaled back.
The original proposal for the new band room in the HS addition would have accomodated many more band students. This proposal was seriously cut back. Next year the HS Concert Band will probably be split in two because the new band room will not hold all of them at one time. This is like saying that the varisty football team will practice on two different fields at the same time. It makes no sense.
But, Concert Band is an academic subject. If we are going to compromise on academic subjects, then we also need to compromise in other areas.
The post by "more questions than answers" had the header: "Serious Questions About New-Generation Artificial Turf That Require Answers." While lengthy, this was a very serious post, with 100% legitimate questions. There was no anger, no judgment, no hot-blooded response - just serious, scientific, articulate questions. For all those who shout out "we need turf" and "we're embarrassed of our fields" and "the turf really does look like grass" ... put your emotions aside for a moment and just answer these questions in an equally articulate fashion. This is the most-grown-up questioning I've seen, I'd like to see a grown-up answer. Answer those questions in a way that eliminates all concerns and I will vote turf all the way. Until then, check your emotions and prove your point.
I'd like to point out: Hurrell Field is in the middle of town (in the only somewhat non-residential part of town), and Carteret Park is on the south end of town (squeezed in a corner between Bloomfield, South Orange, and Montclair). Are there any parks on the north end of town that might be available to take advantage of fake turf? Or is it just the Forrest school playground and Country Club that are non-residential spaces? Easy enough for 50% of the town to say "we'll turf your backyard because we don't have any place up here to turf." Reminds me of the clown who said "I live next to Carteret Park, they ought to put in french drains," yet he's never been there to know that they have french drains. How many of the Council Members making this decision live south of Washington Street?
Please Answer the Question has a good point.
Have we moved from McCarthyism to the Clinton era? Carl really didnt answer the question.
Did he or didnt he know that Jim Grady was the anonymous online poster?
...if not, should he be using his bully pulpit to accuse people of being an anonymous online poster?
Sorry, make that "squeezed in a corner between Bloomfield, EAST ORANGE, and Montclair."
Hey, "bigbrotheriswatching," what makes you think this is the "Clinton era?' Sounds like a conservative republican yelp that deserves a wet newspaper smack on the snout. Bad puppy! Let's leave national politics out of this and discuss the issues of Glen Ridge, for which Bill Clinton has no concern or care (or influence).
Let's please stop the north/south thing. Both councilmen who are not supporting artifical turf at Carteret live north of Washington, north of Bloomfield Ave. and even north of Baldwin.
Okay, "Been Around," I accept your response about the two councilpersons not supporting the turf living on the north end. Believe me, I respect that. But I think there's a lot of hyped-up posters here who wouldn't know Carteret Park from Central Park (including those on the south end who have no first hand experience with the park). It's easy to talk about a concept (turfing a field) but another to live next to it, deal with the consequences (extended hours for sports, lights, traffic, pollution, the view of fake grass, reduced home property values, etc.).
Rocko, our homes should be special places to us that give us a feeling of security, comfort, and refuge. When it is impacted by events beyond our control it is distressing, and rightly so. This goes for modest homes or the more grand. Those decorated and painted by the owner or by the latest must-have professional. It is human nature. Maybe some thought on this would help pave the way to better understanding of the issues raised by a lot of of the neighbors. Many have been through an awful lot over the years.
"The post by "more questions than answers" had the header: "Serious Questions About New-Generation Artificial Turf That Require Answers." While lengthy, this was a very serious post, with 100% legitimate questions. There was no anger, no judgment, no hot-blooded response - just serious, scientific, articulate questions"
It should be noted it was also cut and pasted from another site. Just google it and you'll get multiple hits. You can read it online as a web page, or you can download it as a PDF. Every site I found it on was a turfgrass proponent.
sportsturfmanager.org also seems to be similar. Indeed in googling the term "sports turf", it seems to be an industry term for grass. If you review the application for the sportsturfmanager field of the year award, some of the question seem to be indicative of grass only eligibility.
There may be some validity, but how much is tinged by their bias.
I suspect neither are "fair and balanced"
Real grass makes me sneeze!
However, I believe I'd miss the smell. Please don't turf Carteret Park. This is not the right location for it. I'd prefer to sneeze than to "catch" some outgassing rubber cootie that "may" kill me in ten years (just long enough to pay it off). It will take away from the neighborhood charm and It "may" drive down the market value of our homes in the area. The EPA just cleaned this site up, now we want to lay down tons of an oil based product. Last time I checked oil/petroleum was considered toxic waste.
Please Wait!
ps: You can buy a hellavalot of grass seed for that kind of money. I think Public works needs to step up and do a better job. These fields were in 100% better shape when that Carl Bowles fella was running the show. Maybe we can send the new foreman to "grass school", like they do at the golf courses.
If turf gets passed, will the trees that border the park be ripped out to lay down the turf?
Will new signage go up shutting the doors to residents who want to use the park? What about to dogs?
Will there be lineage on the fields striped in blue, white, purple and other hideous colors for the various sports that are played...stripped one color for lacrosse, another color for soccer, what about hot pink for other sports?!
Will warning signs go up when the temperature outside is too hot and turf will be dangerous for children to bare? Who will be in charge of the sprinkler system? Is that automatic? Will there be a big thermometer on the field?
Who will be watching out for vandalism to protect our greater than $1 million investment? Will there be a sky high fence that goes in or will be there be police car sitting in front of the park at night?
What will come next? Will there be field lights and stadium seating? Are we going to rip out the gas lights too?
What about the noise volume? And the traffic problems? And the waft of rubber tire smell in the air?
This is the beginning of Giants Stadium on Carteret Street.
My husband and I beg the Mayor and Council to please save Carteret Street and the neighboring streets from synthenic grass.
"This is the beginning of Giants Stadium on Carteret Street."
I think you forgot the fall of Western Civilization, didn't you?
At least hysteria is never out of fashion.
P.S.
And why would you stripe your lineage? Wouldn't appropriate uniforms be sufficient?
Will new signage go up shutting the doors to residents who want to use the park? What about to dogs?
These questions were asked and answered again at the most recent town meeting.
The answer to fences and locking out residents was no.
The answer to dogs is that they are prohibited from being on the field now. It may not be enforced, but it's already on the books.
Councilwoman Brewster stated during the meeting all of the finer points of this 3rd generation turf that we are to be getting. She said that it is organic. Well that's wonderful, but so is the gasoline that I put in the fuel tank of my car. Cow dung is organic, but I don't wish to play on or in it. So why is it so great that this stuff is organic? Maybe it was just a little something on the nice glossy promotional brochure that she happened to remember and wanted to use as a retort at that particular point in the meeting.
Doesn't she know something about this sort of thing? She has a green (organic?) lawn service or something. Remember the leaf blower thing?
Can I use the left over turf to do my lawn?
You know they are gonna vote this way, Don't cha.
Oh, wouldn't that be against the "Historic Preservation Commission"?
VOTE THE BUMS OUT!
SAY NO TO TURF!
Artificial Glen Ridge |,
Geese will be imported from Montclair to be used as watchgeese. They will alarm if anyone enters the field during off-hours
did the vote take place?
hearing rumors that hurrell is in; carteret is out?
did the vote take place?
hearing rumors that hurrell is in; carteret is out?
It's easy for people to call others "hysterical" when it is not YOUR home that will be across or near a landscape of bright green fake grass that never changes with the seasons. Not to mention that your home (which is suppoed to be a refuge froms the world) is already in an area where you are eating dinner and can hear horns, screaming and coaches' whistles all through your meal. Not only that, but if you have a party, your guests have to park around the corner and walk half a block to get to your house because your street is blocked with cars coming to a game. And not only that, but when you are outside playing with your young kids, you get to expose them early on to Nine Inch Nails or some other lovely explicit music being blasted from the lacrosse teams' stereo, conveniently positioned smack in the middle of the field for all to hear. Not to mention that when you wake up on a Saturday morning at 7:30 am, there is already a small crowd right outside your front window practicing lacrosse. And when you wake up the next morning, you will get the treat of viewing garbage strewn in the field across from said wondow, on your street and curb from the same crowd. Oh, and I forgot - when the park's bathrooms are locked because of previous vandalism, you get to have special guests (the opposing teams' family members) knocking on your door asking to use your bathroom. So I really, really think that people should stop calling those who live near Carteret or oppose the turf "hysterical". They put up with a lot and consistently get a raw deal, considering they pay the same taxes as everyone else in town. For once, it would be really nice for the powers that be in GR think about these families and give them a damn break and let the grass stay. And while you're at it, how about a few less games per weekend and some speed bumps so the kids don't get killed by the soccer moms racing to get their kids to practice or the teenagers speeding down Carteret, honking their horns after winning a big game. Oops, sorry - am I getting hysterical?
Hysterical, well stated, but I think you left out one thing. All of these people come to your neighborhood and get to teach your children all sorts of new colorful phrases. I would think that some of these athletes and their parents could learn to speak with a civil tongue.
Here is the email address for the Borough of Glen Ridge. Now I'm not sure who will actually receive the emails that you may send, but it couldn't hurt to try and make our voices heard. If your are unable to simply click on this link to email the borough, then just drag your mouse over it. Right click on it once it is highlighted and select copy. Then open your email server and paste it to the address box. info@glenridgenj.org
Malick, thanks for your support but I have to say I never had that experience at Carteret, except for once (from my BACKYARD across the street)I heard a counselor at the rec summer camp using a "colorful phrase" while reprimanding a young camper who was crying. One of my least favorite memories.
Anyway, I no longer live there but am very saddended by this issue and how it has seemingly divided the town yet again. I do not understand why the neighboring homeowners' opinions on this subject are not given more weight. I wrote that post in support of my former neighbors who I know have already been through a lot of stress and annoyances over the years with the park - from radon to excavation to traffic, pesticides, noise, etc. And for the record, Carl Bergmanson is a wonderful person and a passionate, involved mayor. You are lucky to have him.
"Anyway, I no longer live there..."
All this and you don't live there anymore?
(backing slowly away and avoiding direct eye contact)
ROC, not sure where you live, but Glen Ridge is a very special place for many reasons - one of which is that the people who live there are just extraordinary and are willing to pay a premium (the taxes) to be there. Living on Carteret Street was a great experience and while we had many wonderful times there, we also had a lot of difficulties because of the nature of the street with the park, DPW, etc. I'm sure you'll have a nice snarky reply for me, but to sum it up - you just wouldn't understand unless you lived there.
ROC... For your information, we purchased our home just a year ago from the woman who posted by the name "hysterical." She has every right to her comments and was very involved and well respected in GR when her and her family lived here. Jane - Thank you for supporting us in our comments. There is absolutely nothing "hysterical" with NOT supporting the turfing of Carteret Park. We want the Mayor and Council to please vote against against artificial turf at Carteret Park.
I've lived in GR for 44 years (Good grief!) and have seen many fiscal debacles, including, I may add, whether to build a new high school back in the 60's. I was also a member of the Borough Council and involved in budgetary decision making. But here, it's not just the money and the increase in taxes. There are different issues in the matter of installing artificial grass. We are in the throes of a TURF war. And that is sad for our long-standing community. Civility appears to have disappeared from public view. Impugning a volunteer mayor in public is despicable. True, the GRAA is a volunteer organization and they have done wonderful things for children. I even sent many generous contributions to their organization when my daughters were in school. But, the vitriol that is coming forth currently is not what Glen Ridge is all about. I also hope that our borough residents are aware that Nutley and other surrounding towns received hefty government grants for artificial turf installations. Because of our affluence, NJ looks at us as a community not in need of help.However we are getting older and less solvent with each passing year. And as the "let's turf the whole town" mentality becomes channeled into the paying for college tuition phase, it will be interesting to see if residents will continue to yield to future hysteria of wanting it all at any cost.
I've lived in GR for 44 years (Good grief!) and have seen many fiscal debacles, including, I may add, whether to build a new high school back in the 60's. I was also a member of the Borough Council and involved in budgetary decision making. But here, it's not just the money and the increase in taxes. There are different issues in the matter of installing artificial grass. We are in the throes of a TURF war. And that is sad for our long-standing community. Civility appears to have disappeared from public view. Impugning a volunteer mayor in public is despicable. True, the GRAA is a volunteer organization and they have done wonderful things for children. I even sent many generous contributions to their organization when my daughters were in school. But, the vitriol that is coming forth currently is not what Glen Ridge is all about. I also hope that our borough residents are aware that Nutley and other surrounding towns received hefty government grants for artificial turf installations. Because of our affluence, NJ looks at us as a community not in need of help.However we are getting older and less solvent with each passing year. And as the "let's turf the whole town" mentality becomes channeled into the paying for college tuition phase, it will be interesting to see if residents will continue to yield to future hysteria of wanting it all at any cost.
""Anyway, I no longer live there..."
All this and you don't live there anymore?
(backing slowly away and avoiding direct eye contact)
Posted by: Right of Center â„¢ | September 30, 2006 11:23 PM "
It's my understanding ROC that you don't live in Glen Ridge either
ROC - who are you? Do you live in GR? What kind of email address do you have? whoof@whoof.whoof? That's seems pretty hysterical to me.
I am not sure anyone should be surprised when they buy a house accross from a playing field and then find it's played on.
I was on the fields yesterday and I noticed that the entrance has a sign noting the rules and regulation, the last line of which indicates that field use is by permit only.
Doesn't that indicate that the casual use that folks are fighting to prevent is already banned by town regs? Where was the outcry then? Or is the sign misleading?
make that :Doesn't that indicate that the casual use that folks are fighting to PROTECT
Helene mentions a good point. Current college tuition + living expenses + books at a private college in the NE or mid-atlantic, better figure at least $45,000 per year per child with an annual increase of 4-5%. And there are no athletic scholarships except at division I (not sure about the very few D-2s). A (very) few kids from GR have gotten them but the most you can generally hope for is a greased path top admission...maybe.
That means if you have a 12 year old better figure on $56,000 per year to start making that BA tab run close to $250,000.
Oh and all of those scholarships you hear go wanting every yeat, that is because most of them are for a 1 legged runner who speaks Swahili and has sailed around the world in a bath tub solo.
There are of course less expensive alternatives and I would suggest skipping the game and going to church to pray really hard that you child picks one of them as first choice. If not, you may not be here to see the new turf wear out.
Tonight is the final council meeting where the public will have an opportunity to speak out about the 7 milllion dollar bond, which includes astro turf [there! iI said it, wait, actually i mean 3rd generation organic synthetic playable surface...blah blah blah] Come at 7:30 to tell the town council where you stand or don't want to stand on this one.