Parents Behaving Badly

Shameful, really shameful.

Zzzzzz.

I got whiplash in my sleep.

Memo : Gretchen Vicino and Randy Walther
MUSC Vice Presidents
Town League

Re: Following MUSC Guidlines.

In the above memo you write that some parents "confronted the referees in an argumentative, abusive manner" and how the referees "became quite distraught".

It is my understanding based on my years in Montclair Soccer that any parent acting in "argumentative, and abusive manner" towards the refs should be banned from future games.

What's with the slap on the wrist? You hope these miscreants will apologize?.
Get real!

Please get tough on these out of control parents so our kids might grow up and enjoy the game! Asking for an apology with no punishment will not deter future outburts. Making an example of these idiots will.

"Disgusting and ugly soccer parents screaming at kid refs?"

Couldn't be. Don't they know that this is Montclair? We don't do that here.

"Making an example of these idiots will."

Yeah !

I was an umpire for a bunch of softball playing first graders when I was in eighth grade. One time this dad went so crazy about a call I made we had to kick him out of the game. 1st graders!

Why did you let the dad play in the game with 1st graders?

What about punishing the coaches who allowed this to happen?

"...demanding payback for lost game time."

Is that for real? You get a refund if a game is cut short? What a bunch of BS.

If the Montclair people can't behave, I say we kick them out of Bloomfield. After all, that's where they're playing.

When I was taking my son to his first reffing gig last fall, I warned him that there were some crazy parents out there who might get ugly with the refs. Sure enough, as we walked up to the field, the previous game had just come to a close (this was FIRST-grade boys' town soccer...), and there was an irate dad/coach reaming out the 7th-grade ref for not making a call. I turned to my son and said, This is what I was talking about. Luckily, the other coach stepped in and handled the situation gracefully, allowing the jerk to save face and the ref to walk away with no further damage done. But you should have seen the rapt faces of all those 6-year-olds getting a life lesson in what to do when things don't go your way--awful.

I'd love to hear from anyone who was at that game. Any more details on how many parents were involved or if any of the other parents made a move to stop it? And I'd also love to hear the names of the idiotic parents involved!

Upset U.S. dad pulls gun on son's football coach


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Oct 24, 8:45 AM (ET)

PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - The father of a young football player pulled a gun on his son's coach because he didn't think the boy was getting enough playing time, Philadelphia police said on Monday.

Wayne Derkotch, 40, was charged with aggravated assault after getting in a fight with the coach over the amount of time the boy was getting on the field at a game for 6- and 7-year-olds on Sunday morning, said police spokesman Officer Raul Malveiro.

"There was a physical altercation about what child should play or not play and then he pulled the gun," Malveiro said.

There were no injuries and Derkotch fled before being arrested after a complaint was made by the coach, whose name was not released, Malveiro said.

Parental behavior at children's sports events has come under scrutiny from groups such as the Citizenship Through Sports Alliance. The group's study gave parents a D grade for their conduct and involvement at kids' games.

An Internet straw poll of nearly 3,000 by the U.S. Web-based Center for Sports Parenting (http://www.internationalsport.com/csp/index.cfm) found that 85 percent of the participants had witnessed parents or coaches becoming verbally abusive during games. Forty percent had seen physical abuse.

My son was also subjected to verbal abuse from a parent complaining that he and the other ref did not call all of the "handballs" in a 1st grade game! Fortunately, again, the coach stepped in.

You can't blame the father in Philly for pulling a gun. Blame lies squarely in the hands of the NRA. While we're at it I think Bush, Exxon, Haliburton, Enron, and the rest of the Neocon's deserve blame for this. People should not be held accountable for their own actions, Havesi will tell you that.

My husband and kids were at the Brookdale playground on said Saturday, and "overheard" some of the soccer altercation. All I know is that when my five year-old got home, he asked me "what is a F***ing bastard?" That is what one mom apparently screamed at the ref's back as he walked away...

hey, this is nothing new, people. i will not tell you where i live at present, but we have this stuff over here, too. parents behaving badly is getting to be the national pastime. it's all over, kinda like a fungus among us. don't know what the solution is. maybe less emphasis on winning, more on good sportsmanship? i don't know. these folks have heads like bricks! good luck getting them to apologize!

hey, this is nothing new, people. i will not tell you where i live at present, but we have this stuff over here, too. parents behaving badly is getting to be the national pastime. it's all over, kinda like a fungus among us. don't know what the solution is. maybe less emphasis on winning, more on good sportsmanship? i don't know. these folks have heads like bricks! good luck getting them to apologize!

hey, this is nothing new, people. i will not tell you where i live at present, but we have this stuff over here, too. parents behaving badly is getting to be the national pastime. it's all over, kinda like a fungus among us. don't know what the solution is. maybe less emphasis on winning, more on good sportsmanship? i don't know. these folks have heads like bricks! good luck getting them to apologize!

No one teaches good sportsmanship anymore.

Absolutely no true. I coach softball and soccer for younger girls and we make it a point to teach good sportsmanship. If I saw a parent abusing these refs (usually middle school kids), I'd step in in an instant. Nobody deserves that type of abuse, especially kids of the young age.

Remember how many games a week are played in Montclair alone and how many times do you see/hear of an incident like this? I know 1 time is too many, but I've yet to ever see a confrontation with the kids or refs.

Great Families are in abundance at MUSC. People must remember that every Saturday almost 1500 kids take the fields with their families on the sidelines, guided by over 100 volunteer coaches. The predominant outcome... a good time to be had by all. Healthy activities for the kids, positive lessons in sportsmanship and team work, tasty snacks, quality family time, and social gatherings. We must never allow the actions of a few to become more of a focal point than the wonderful contributions made by all of the dedicated participants in Montclair United Soccer Club. With that in mind... Thank you to all of the kids, parents, coaches, board members, and assorted other volunteers that make MUSC such a worth while orginization.

I coached in the MUSC club a number (actually, a large number) of years ago, and subsequently moved to North Caldwell, where my kids continued their soccer "careers". As part of my NC experience, I was active in both in-town and travel soccer, both as coach and (ultimately) as a FIFA-carded referee.

I can assure most folks that are unfamiliar with soccer in New Jersey that the nexus of most bad sportsmanship/referee abuse/complaining in general is the parents, not the players. Most of the players either understand the rules, or realize that they understand them insufficiently to make a "spirited" argument. Parents, however, do not let a little concept like knowledge get the in the way of their attempting to affect/amend/control the outcome of games, goals, or playing time.

While the conduct of the game is rightfully in the hands of the referee (and ONLY in the hands of the referee - the coaches don't get or have a "vote"), allowing a early teenaged youth to fend for themselves against an (admittedly presumed) ignorant SPECTATOR is a failure on the part of every other adult within earshot.

The "rule" that I have employed in these cases as a referee usually centers around ejecting the offending commenter/gesturer/complainer, or (if the game has already ended) advising the coach of the team with which the offender(s) are affiliated that they (the coach[es]) have just earned a red card. That costs the coach a one-game suspension. If it;s the second red card during the season, the coach takes a seat for the rest of the season and (hopefully) never gets assigned as a coach again. If the ejected spectator will not leave, I issue red cards to the remaining assistant coach(es), until (f necessary) no more coach(es) are eligible. Then, no coach, no game, victory for the "other" team.

If the dispute occurs during the game, the coach is given one chance to shut the offending person up or "ask" them to leave. Beyond that point, the coach (and maybe his/her assistants) are staring at red cards until order is restored or the outcome of the game is determined through the stupidity of the parent(s).

I know that this would seem to be a rather harsh punishment meted out to the other players on the penalized team; however, no other sure-fire way has been determined to get idiot specators to realize just how disruptive and offensive they are.

Shouts of "hand ball" are usually responded to during halftime with a (hopefully) cogent explanation of just what a hand ball actually is, and the concept of advantage. Merely having a ball strike a hand (or in some cases vice-versa) does not a hand ball penalty make. Most parents generally fall into the category of both (1) not knowing the technical issues of the Laws of Football (Soccer), AND (2) will insist that they are right anyway. Pity them. Their kids, and their kids' teammates, are going to have a tough season in front of them, and really only learn one thing for sure -- that xxxx's parents are indeed goldplated !$!%@#%holes.

Any of you parents who were also spectators at the game and DIDN'T take steps to get involved and defuse the confrontation should be ashamed of yourselves. The actual parents that were involved in the confrontation should be banned from the field for the rest of the season. Their kids can play, but they've waived their opportunity to watch.

(right around now, I blow my whistle, indicate who has the ball, and re-start the game) Play on.

"The "rule" that I have employed in these cases as a referee usually centers around ejecting the offending commenter/gesturer/complainer, or (if the game has already ended) advising the coach of the team with which the offender(s) are affiliated that they (the coach[es]) have just earned a red card. That costs the coach a one-game suspension. If it;s the second red card during the season, the coach takes a seat for the rest of the season and (hopefully) never gets assigned as a coach again."

Wow, kind of harsh to the coach. I would of course not let a parent abuse a ref, but during the game, I'm not really aware of what is happening all the way across the field on the far sideline. I'm too busy coaching the kids and trying to sub them enough to make sure everyone gets equal playing time (not as easy as it sounds).

Usually the refs on the far sideline can't hear me, so the chance of me hearing conversations on that side is small, unless there is some wild gesticulating! I would at least hope before you red card coaches that you bring it to their attention and give them a chance to intervene.

To the "Hiding" at 1:35 -- indeed you are right, it is a harsh penalty to the coach; however, the coaches and the players are the only parties on (or at) the field over whom the referee has any direct control. It is up to the coach to control (strangle if necessary) the offending parents.

As to the fact that the coach can't hear the words said or gestures made on the other side of the field -- again, you're right, but the ref can't eject a spectator in the absence of some sort of direct means of control.

I've only been obliged to resort to the full "treatment" twice; virtually all coaches quickly grasp the importance of the situation, and take the steps to corral the parents as necessary.

Nonetheless, the referee can only directly control the players and coaches; he/she doesn't own the field or the stands or the parking lot. But the ref does have an obligation to the 16 or 22 players on the field (depending on age) as well as the other players and coaches, to ensure that a well-played game ensues under conditions that are not abusive to the ref, the players, or the coaches.

You should be aware that there's a fair number of cases I've seen where spectators have been ragging on the opposing coach or individual players, not just the ref. The game and the sportsmanship under which it is played is the only paramount concern to the ref, and he/she has to take the appropriate steps to make sure that the conditions are amenable to that outcome. Boorish spectators ruin the game for many of the people there, and should be dealt with early in their "careers". Otherwise, the parents will become serial abusers at the games, since they will perceive that there is no downside to trying to affect the outcome.

While I agree, I think strangling (while probably tongue in cheek?) is just wrong, two wrongs?

The coach really has no more control over a parent then a ref (at least an adult ref like yourself) has. A coach could ask a parent to calm down or leave, but they can really eject them either. If it comes to that, a call to the police is necessary.

Again, the statement that "hopefully never gets assigned as a coach again" is so harsh in the context you provide. Please at least tell me you meant that you'd only do this AFTER you made sure the coach was aware of the situation.

My son has been a ref for years and the level of abuse that he's endured from coaches is totally abysmal. They follow him when the game is over, scream in his face, demand to know how much he makes each game...These are adults???? Maybe MUSC needs to do more investigating and training to the coaches that they let loose on the fields ---given the events of this fall season there may not be many refs left for the spring season.

My daughter once had a horrible coach who was banned from coaching after that season--he yelled abuse at EVERYONE on the field (the ref, his own players, opposing coach/players) and was thoroughly demoralizing. But he stands out partly because every other coach we've had has been terrific and generous with his/her time and talents--all volunteers, of course, and I'm very grateful to them. Gretchen is right in her post above--let's look at the positives, too.

To Hiding @1:58 - perhaps my first post above wasn't clear enough. The coach gets one chance to recfify the situation without penalty. He/she is advised of that circumstance directly (by me) prior to being advised that the offending spectator needs to leave.

As to the strangulation, it was indeed a little wishful thinking, but tongue as indeed well-seated in cheek.

Also, soccermom at 2:03 is perhaps validation of why the "harshness" of the penalty is not reallly out of proportion. Many coaches get too caught up in adult-type competitive behavior, and let their own intensity ruin the experience for MANY others. They all need to be reminded (if only they would listen) that it is only a game -- these kids are not playing for the world cup, nor college scholarships, nor any other moment-specific life-and-death matter. The kids want to play (even the older ones who you might think would get caught up in the competitive stuff), rather then watch a bunch of ill-behaving parents overact.

For the parents, it becomes a power play - for the kids, it's still a game. The parents need to put their behavior in perspective and examine what image they are showing to their own kids, their neighbors, and others in the community. Bad behavior seems to beget more bad behavior, and somebody has to stop te cycle of escalation.

If the referee is a child (remember, many rec-league games are officiated by teenagers) behavior like that mentioned in the original post has no excuse. It's over the top, and should be treated as such. Other alleged "responsible" adults who won't take steps to defuse the situation (like the coaches that soccermom refers to) should be punished. They (the abusive parents, whether or not we call them "coach") are acting improperly, and should be removed from the scene for however long it takes for them to realize the damage they do.

The fact that the coaches are abusing the teenaged refs should be considered a compelling consideratiion. If the coach can't respect the authority of the ref, the coach should not be involved in the game, period, end of story.

Please understand that I am NOT saying that the coach(es) should be penalized without warning; however, the "I can't change their behavior" defense doesn't stand up to the ref's "but I can change YOUR behavior" rebuttal.

Since most Refs are kids, it's not fair to expect them to handle anything other than calling the game.

When a parent becomes belligerent, a procedure needs to be put in place where the ref stops the game, and both coaches and parents from both teams step in as a group to control the situation (not a 15 year old ref). The parent can either voluntarily not attend future games, or the kid is removed from the team. MUSC needs to establish something at the beginning of the season to address this.

If one of the coaches is the culprit, then the game stops and the coach is removed from further coaching. This should be a one strike and your out situation.

There was a fight at a soccer game last year between parents. At rec soccer none the less. This is totally unacceptable. I love watching my kid play rec soccer. Their team has not won one game yet unfortunately, but they have fun. There are too many kids that just don't understand the game at the rec level. Some kids are even doing cartwheels while on defense and their team is on the offensive. With a loose attitude like that, you can't realistically take rec soccer game victories seriously.
Out of 15 players on a typical team, maybe 5 take the game seriously. That's great for those kids, and they try hard and usually excel at the game. But the other 10 players are having fun, and socializing with their friends and getting exercise. It just is not the environment to stress the importance of winning.

Under these conditions, why would anyone get worked up when a bad call gets made?

I feel bad for soccermom above. If I were in her situation, I would not allow my son to ref.

There was a fight at a soccer game last year between parents.

Was that the one involving the two Northeast parents?

"the "I can't change their behavior" defense doesn't stand up to the ref's "but I can change YOUR behavior" rebuttal."

That wasn't my defense, I only pointed out...

"The coach really has no more control over a parent then a ref (at least an adult ref like yourself) has. A coach could ask a parent to calm down or leave, but they can't really eject them either. If it comes to that, a call to the police is necessary."

Other than that, we seem to agree.

"When a parent becomes belligerent, a procedure needs to be put in place where the ref stops the game, and both coaches and parents from both teams step in as a group to control the situation (not a 15 year old ref). The parent can either voluntarily not attend future games, or the kid is removed from the team. MUSC needs to establish something at the beginning of the season to address this."

Excellent. Well put. Feel free to red card a coach that WON'T intervene, but red carding a coach that TRIES to intervene and can't control the parent, what does that accomplish? Nothing. Do you actually think the parent is going to then calm down just because a coach got a red card? No. You want to shut them up, probably threatening to remove their kid from the team is the best bet, sad as it is for the kid.

I agree that Gretchen is right in her post above--that we should look at the positives -- of which there are many -- with the MUSC programs. It's a great organization run by terrifc volunteers who work very hard to make soccer in this town the FANTASTIC experience that it is. But this one example of parents abusing young refs is where MUSC must step up to the plate and take action. MUSC knows who the offenders are -- they know this because they spoke to the coaches about this incident. The coaches themselves allowed this to happen. That's equally appalling. But having MUSC Vice Presidents asking for the offending parents to apologize to the young refs is simply not enough. It sends the message that MUSC is not really that serious about out of control parent behavior.
Gretchen admits that "the referees became quite distraught". Hello -- that's a huge RED FLAG -- adults at this game made the young refs feel threatened -- and MUSC is not gonna take action?. There are policies in place at MUSC to protect kids on the field, but what about the young refs? Gretchen Vicino and Randy Walther please rethink your position on this and not let these offending parents get away with their over the top behavior. What's wrong with banning them from a few games and let them think about their embarrassing actions for a couple of weekends?

"There was a fight at a soccer game last year between parents.
Was that the one involving the two Northeast parents?"

I guess that makes 2. I am aware of that one as well. Nothing to do with Soccer, but equally disgusting.

apologies to everyone for my letter being printed 3 times. must have pressed a wrong button somewhere. excellent letters and wonderful suggestions here, too. very, very interesting topic!

my kids played various sports too. some of us moms would make a point to demonstrate sporting behavior. when we saw the other team get off the bus or approach the field, we'd welcome them and tell them we were glad they came to play. if the other team's player was hurt we'd clap for them when they left the field. when we cheered we only used positives for our team, such as "good defense" or whatever, NEVER anything negative about the other team. after the game, we'd thank the other team for playing and congratulate them for a good job. does this all sound pollyanna and saccharine? maybe, but we were sincere in our desire to create a friendly experience for the kids. we encouraged competition and skill, not berserk reactions. and they all had a great time!

The real sad part of this whole story is that these adults (both coaches and sideline parents) look at these refs as easy targets..They have the age factor working with them and know how to bully and intimidate. Refs are told to shorten games in certain circumstances, yet somehow the coaches didn't get that message? There's also the issue of the rules of the game that my son has had to stop and explain why it was a throw in, a goal kick...then there's the parents that question the ref a million times and want 100% clarification..(maybe go take a class or read on line?). MUSC does do a great job, and i know the kids have a great time...everyone should learn to work within those parameters and accept it for what it is.

My daughter was one of the refs at this game. She was very happy to have received a nice email of support from MUSC but noted that not one coach nor parent from either team bothered to apologize. Both of these girls deserved better especially from the coaches. Very disappointing that they did not step in...

My daughter was one of the refs at this game. She was very happy to have received a nice email of support from MUSC but noted that not one coach nor parent from either team bothered to apologize. Both of these girls deserved better especially from the coaches. Very disappointing that they did not step in...

My daughter was one of the refs at this game. She was very happy to have received a nice email of support from MUSC but noted that not one coach nor parent from either team bothered to apologize. Both of these girls deserved better especially from the coaches. Very disappointing that they did not step in...

I used to ref soccer with one of my friends. We went through the whole deal of getting certified and it was a long horrible process, but we figured the job would be fun.The parents of these little kids are horrible and some of the coaches aren't much better. The parents yell and make a fool of themselves while watching their kids play. The sport is supposed to be fun, and if taken too seriously, it's not. The kids aren't playing professional soccer, it's not that big of a deal. CHILL OUT! They obviously don't understand that yelling at a 14 year old is obnoxious. We ended up quitting after reffing five or six games because of this.