Shiver Me Timbers, Pirates In Newark

Ford Livengood! That's almost as good as Captain Ghoul of the Bloomfield PD. Baristanet is full of public servants with cool names this week.

This kid could have a great career at Microsoft. Are you listening, Bill? Hire this man!

Thank goodness they got him. He nearly put Bill Gates in the poor house. This arrest should also clear up all of the violent crime in Newark.

In order to prove that he did anything immoral, you have to be able to prove that his clients would have payed retail price.

immoral does = illegal

"immoral does = illegal"

Slavery was moral, then.

It's an economic crime - which should be treated more leniently than murder or rape. Of course, the prosecutors of Enron officals would not agree.

Anyhow, piracy of intellectual property greatly offends artists, writers (i.e. the typical Baristaville intellectual) except when they themselves are ripping off a successful owner such as Bill Gates.

"Anyhow, piracy of intellectual property greatly offends artists, writers (i.e. the typical Baristaville intellectual) except when they themselves are ripping off a successful owner such as Bill Gates."

As an artist, I can tell you that downloading music or software (or buying it from a bootlegger selling it at a lower price) is not immoral. While the law says it is, the law is often wrong. I'll demonstrate:

For something to be immoral, it has to violate rights. This is the definition of morality (negative morality, at least - positive morality deals with issues like calling your wife a bitch). Legislating positive morality, however, violates rights - calling your wife a bitch is unethical, but legislation banning this violates free speech.

Since for something to be immoral, we have to be able to prove that it violates a right. Most people would say that the right to property is being violated in this situation. This is not the case.

Property isn't being stolen - there's no theft of a product, as no loss occurs. Stealing a DVD from Best Buy is immoral because Best Buy has payed for the DVD and takes a negative profit from your theft - it's literally taking money out of their pocket. Downloading a DVD, however, takes money out of nobody's pocket. There's no physical product being stolen, so there's no way that someone can lose money from this.

Someone could say "you're committing theft, as you're taking away a sale from the artist" (or video game developer or manufacturer or whoever you choose). This is only the case if you can prove I was going to purchase the DVD/CD/video game in the first place at retail price. If I wasn't going to purchase the DVD in the first place, there's no loss of a sale, so there's no damage done. If I wasn't able to download the DVD, I wouldn't have purchased it. Nothing has changed between these two situations.

Now, if I were to have intended on buying the DVD but didn't because I realized I could get it for free, that would be immoral. This, however, is nearly impossible to determine. Since any civilized, moral government acknowledges that the defense is innocent until proven guilty, the intent to purchase must be proven.

In nearly all situations (there are extreme exceptions), this proof is impossible. The act cannot be construed as immoral, since you can't prove that I intended on purchasing the item.

Thus, laws against downloading software are developed outside of the realm of morality and logic, and are therefore immoral themselves.

(These thoughts can be applied to bootleggers as well - if you're offering a DVD at 20 bucks less than the retailers, you can only say that the purchase/sale of the bootlegged DVD is immoral if you can prove that I would have paid for it at retail price. This is also nearly impossible.)

Let's see if I got this right. If I copy Scupo's art (whatever that might be) and sell it to millions of people who would not have bought it from him, then my action is not immoral and should not be illegal. Methinks he lacks both a moral and legal compass.

Excuse me Schupo for mispelling your name.

Just don't misspell his name when you copy his art and sell it.

"Let's see if I got this right. If I copy Scupo's art (whatever that might be) and sell it to millions of people who would not have bought it from him, then my action is not immoral and should not be illegal."

You'd potentially be committing fraud. If you credited my work to me and made it abundantly clear that you were copying and selling someone elses work, you'd be fine. Yes.

"Methinks he lacks both a moral"

Think logically. Tell me at what point in my argument I'm flawed, and I'll try to be more clear. Take it point by point.

"and legal compass."

I realize what I'm suggesting goes against current copyright law. What I'm saying is that current copyright law is based in something aside from logic (corporate interests? Flawed reasoning? Emotion?) and as such has no place in an intelligent society. The government has no place to legislate positive morality, as is the case here.

Maybe I should clarify - the downloading of software (or purchasing from an unauthorized vendor at a reduced price) has no inherent moral standing. If you would have bought it for retail price but aren't because it's available for a lower price elsewhere, this is immoral. What I'm saying is that since this is almost impossible to prove, it's equally impossible to prosecute someone for that "crime". Only with proper evidence can someone be convicted of a crime, and in this case, the evidence rarely ever exists - you'd need something close to a signed, sworn, notorized statement of intent to purchase the work.

Your logic is flawed. Aren't you the same Schupo who posted anti-semitic comments in another thread.

I have no respect for you and your opinions you BIGOT.

I agree with "hiding" that your logic is flawed, I pass on his/her bigotry accusation.

Even using your "economic loss" as a basis for your morality, your argument fails. Reasonable users would prefer to patronize the original artist at a price that suited them - but under your analysis the artist is being deprived of the opportunity to sell to the bargain hunters at a bargain price. However, I do not accept your basis of analysis. Morality does not depend upon whether you are depriving someone of a buck.

Now that he's been caught everyone can go back to leaving their cars unlocked.

Ha! That's fantastic Hiding, nice Godwin . That was the about the quickest I have ever seen.

I happen to know that Hiding steals fruit from Fresh Fields and hates Eurasian Trombonists.

This be some foolish blatherin of "pirates" and "anti-piracy" laws. What manner of "pirate" be operatin from his mother's apartment and not be standin tall on a rolling deck? His mommy's apartment?!? Arrghh! It insults me, Drake, Morgan, Kidd, Bonny, Bellamy and thems like us. Nay this Derek Ramirez be a lubber and a common thief. Not even a fight before they took him. And who be these fools you have makin ye laws? Why not a feather of lead, bright smoke, cold fire, sick health! Stuff and nonsense sez I. Curious people and curious times these be.

I don't know any Eurasian Trombonists and have never been to Fresh Fields (is there one in the area?).

I do know schupo from another thread where he called people anti-semitic names (I consider jew-boy to be anti-semitic) and then claimed to be jewish himself.

It's not a Godwin when you are talking about past statements from a poster--try looking that up.

ps- you'll notice that schupo the great has had nothing to say since!!!!

"Your logic is flawed. Aren't you the same Schupo who posted anti-semitic comments in another thread."

Show how my logic is flawed. I'm willing to accept it if you can prove it.

I'm no more anti-semitic than Sarah Silverman.

"I do know schupo from another thread where he called people anti-semitic names (I consider jew-boy to be anti-semitic) and then claimed to be jewish himself."

Would it help you to know that I was a member of temple Ner Tamid where I had my Bar Mitzvah? Would it help you to know that I light the candles and say the kiddush? Would it help you to know that I have JEWISH BLOOD so even if I were to deny my religion I would still be of Jewish ancestry? If I seriously hated Jews, I'd be hating myself.

But I guess posting on Baristanet is going to get me a lot of knee-jerk liberals pissed off that I said something that might be misconstrued as racist because they chose to take it that way.

"ps- you'll notice that schupo the great has had nothing to say since!!!!"

I don't sit around the computer watching this website. I apologize profusely, but I take adantage of saturday nights to go out.

"Would it help you to know that I was a member of temple Ner Tamid where I had my Bar Mitzvah? Would it help you to know that I light the candles and say the kiddush? Would it help you to know that I have JEWISH BLOOD so even if I were to deny my religion I would still be of Jewish ancestry? If I seriously hated Jews, I'd be hating myself."

We'll you may hate yourself but that's your own business, when you spread that hatred out to the world and it's specifically against Jews it's called anti-semitism.

Maybe Rabbi Kushner can help you work out your feelings of self hated. In the meantime stop calling people Jew-boy. It's an insult and anti-semitic.

sorry- didn't know your schedule- please post it in advance...

"We'll you may hate yourself but that's your own business, when you spread that hatred out to the world and it's specifically against Jews it's called anti-semitism."

I'm assuming you rally against Lenny Bruce, Sarah Silverman, and Mel Brooks for their anti-semitism?

If you post negatively against Jews it's anti-semitism, women it's sexism, blacks it's racism.

You may think you're being funny but you're not, you're being offensive.

And incidentally, you are NO Lenny Bruce, Sarah Silverman (whoever that is) or Mel Brooks. You are just a name caller and an anti-semite and you should get yourself some help.

There are lots of good therapists in the area- take advantage of that.

So, Schupo, you admit to being an anti-semite?

"If you post negatively against Jews it's anti-semitism, women it's sexism, blacks it's racism.

You may think you're being funny but you're not, you're being offensive.

And incidentally, you are NO Lenny Bruce, Sarah Silverman (whoever that is) or Mel Brooks. You are just a name caller and an anti-semite and you should get yourself some help.

There are lots of good therapists in the area- take advantage of that."

Knee-jerk political correctness for 1000, Alex.

"So, Schupo, you admit to being an anti-semite?"

No.

Then you should really begin therapy work since recognizing the problem is the first step.

I see being Jewish and calling people jew-boy as a manifestation of self-hatred and loathing.

It's not easy being a Jew in these United States- take advantage of all the networking that you can and work on your problem.

Good luck!

"I see being Jewish and calling people jew-boy as a manifestation of self-hatred and loathing."

You'd make a terrible therapist.

I'm not a therapist just a Jewish individual who recognizes that you have a problem.

Poor schupo, you outed yourself and now won't admit it.

Maybe Conversations on Race would be of some help to you
http://www.montclairnjusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=500&Itemid=429

973 509-4907

CRPMontclair@yahoo.com

Sleepysleek, here's another great name from today's Washington Post article on the milk lobby...

"Virginia dairy farmers had helped win the key support of Robert W. Goodlatte (R-Va.), chairman of the Agriculture Committee,"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/09/AR2006120900925_pf.html

Professor Sander L. Gilman of the University of Illinois-Chicago defines Self-Hatred as:

...the internalization of the negative stereotypes about who you are--the identification with the reference group's image of you as 'the other' in society. The person who is labeled as different wants to find out why he or she fits the stereotype, or to prove that he/she does not. But the more one attempts to identify with societal definitions in order to fit in, the more one accepts the attitudes of the determining group, the farther away from true acceptability one seems to be." Obviously this statement could be applied to any group which is the subject of bigotry.

Many psychologists have attempted to explain this phenomenon. According to some theorists, Jewish self-hatred may result from feelings of inferiority brought upon by anti-Semitism they have suffered in the past.

This can lead to attempts to distance themselves from their Jewish identity by avoiding activities and styles of dress and appearance currently or traditionally associated with Jewish people.

They may also attempt to adopt the behavior patterns and characteristics more predominantly associated with Gentiles.

In some cases a Jew will not only distance themselves from other Jews but actually engage in discrimination against other Jews.

A famous instance of this happening was the case of Dan Burros who repudiated his Jewish background and joined the Ku Klux Klan, eventually rising to Grand Dragon status, until he committed suicide after the New York Times reported that he was, in fact, Jewish. The film The Believer was loosely based on his life.

This phenomenon may also contribute to what has been dubbed the Silent Holocaust of modern assimilated Jews in free societies.

Based on his widely publicized anti-Semitic statements, Bobby Fischer could be considered another example.

An extreme example is Adam Yahiye Gadahn, a former Jew who serves as a spokesman for Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

The best way I can describe myself right now is this:

http://www.bized.co.uk/images/exhausted.jpg

that would be you. You need to work on getting some help for your self esteem issues- then you'll look like this:

http://www.framedartoutlet.com/images/framedcanvastransfers/bearddanicingbears.jpg

"that would be you."

In an "oh jesus christ are these people serious" way, not an "oh god I hate my life" way.

PLEASE LEAVE SCHUPO ALONE!!
The person(s) who keeps going on about it is self-righteous and fascist...
Get a life and stop demanding that all people be exactly like you.

Thanks Lactose Lobby Intolerant! Nice. That sounds like something the Onion would make up. I guess Rep. Goodlatte (R) won't be chairman of the Ag committee for much longer. Maybe he'll retire and get a job as a highly-paid lobbyist for Starbucks.

Tell Schupo not to post insults calling people jew-boy anymore and I'll stop. I have heard no apology just rationalization that he's Jewish and therefore can't insult other Jews by calling them names.

sorry not a fascist by any definition:

a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

So, do you idolize Bobby Fischer, in a fascist kind of way?

schupo, see the error of your ways and repent while you have a chance.

convert too if you don't like the religion that you were born into.

schupo, You should change your moniker to schmucko

Your logic for determining theft of copyrighted materials is idiotic.

All I see are ad hominem attacks saying that since I'm apparently anti-semitic (which is absurd and I'm no longer going to address), my argument about copyright law is invalid.

You have three options.

a) Refute my point by showing a flaw in my logic.
b) Accept my point as the truth and adjust your position on copyright law accordingly
c) Suffer intellectual cowardice.

Those are the only options available to you.

"Tell Schupo not to post insults calling people jew-boy anymore and I'll stop. I have heard no apology just rationalization that he's Jewish and therefore can't insult other Jews by calling them names."

I will not, jewboy.

"schmucko"
now there's a good Yiddish word.

and here's another
A nahr bleibt a nahr - A fool remains a fool

Schupo,
Didn’t Ramirez violate the rights of the artist when he sold their work without their authorization? Whether or not the customers would have bought a legit copy instead is irrelevant.

In the software world, there are copywrites such as the GPL by the free software foundation
http://www.gnu.org/
that do not require compensation at all. If you distribute software using this copywrite, such as Linux, without including the source code with any modifications that you made, you are in violation of the copywrite.

It is similar to trespassing. If someone comes into your house without your permission, they are guilty of trespassing, even if they don't eat your porridge or beak a chair.

Bitpusher is correct. Using somebody's exclusive property without their permission is a theft. It's not so much that the music/movie/whatever is stolen, it's that the right to make copies is in itself a piece of property.

Since it's an intangible right and it is transferrable, doctrines such as fair use have arisen to prevent copyright holders from having undue control over the affairs of others, but fair use does not extend to copying entire works for distribution to third parties.

Ah, the gpl. My bread and butter. I think you'll find over time that restrictive copyrights, patents, etc will become obsolete by their very nature. The the DMCA, unreasonable EULA licenses, and copyright smack downs is just bad business. No one ever got anywhere by attacking there customers or fan base.

Lets not forget Creative Commons for other types of copyrights.

Well Lasermike is certainly consistent. Take from those who produce and give to those who consume. He would fit perfectly in Chavez' republic.

Actually, the RIAA is getting a lot of payback for "attacking" what you call their customers. Where I am from, your customers are people who buy your stuff with money. The smackdowns by the RIAA, coupled with the easy access, price and selection of iTunes and competitors have resulted in a lot of people realizing that buying stuff is more fair to the people who make and distribute that stuff.

Open source software is entirely different, because the people who made it wanted to give it away.

I warned you Schupo, that in the Peoples Republic of Montclair, the artists and writers (who do not hesistate to tell people what to do with their real estate) would be outraged by your claim that they should not be able to control the copyrights of their works.

The current system is not fair to the artist. I don't see the lion share of the money going to the artist. The only leverage the music industry has is marketing. Distribution has been taken over by the internet legally. What the internet did for distribution it will do for marketing. Its already begun.

These restrictive copyrights will go away over time because the concept of "intellectual" propriety is flawed. You can not own something that doesn't have physical form. To own something is to have physical dominion over an object. Information is ethereal and there for can not be owned. Fortunately, this legal thought experiment is coming to a close.

Not only is the current music industry legally flawed its current business model is flawed and will not scale globally. Most of the world doesn't believe in intellectual property and intellectual property law is fiercely resisted in other western societies not to mention the rest of the world.

You can not interfere the primal forces of nature! AND! YOU! MUST! ATONE! /snicker snicker/

Fortunately, this legal thought experiment is coming to a close.

I encourage you to keep experimenting with thought, as your "theory" that intangible property can't be owned needs a lot of work. Intellectual property is respected around the world, just without much zeal in some places for the property rights of foreigners (China, for example, strictly enforces intellectual property concepts without hesitation when it's their intellectual property at stake). Any time you have property, physical or not, in a foreign jurisdiction, it is at risk of government taking or theft (sometimes the same thing) -- the 5th Amendment doesn't apply.

Sweden's Pirate Party. Party type coming to a democracy near you!

"Didn’t Ramirez violate the rights of the artist when he sold their work without their authorization?"

Unless you're signing a contract upon purchase that says that you agree to not copy the work, the above applies. It has EVERYTHING to do with whether or not the person would have paid for the product at retail price. That's the only way to determine if a sale was lost to the bootlegger, which in turn is the only way to tell if a moral crime was committed.

Theft isn't immoral because you're getting something for nothing, it's immoral because your denying someone their property. In this case, no property that belongs to the original artist or manufacturer is being stolen or sold (the DVDs being sold aren't stolen from a retailer, they're burned on a computer).

Most fortunately of all, lasermikey neither teaches logic nor Engish grammar and spelling at any accredited school.

Got congress?

I'm disgusted at the comments on this thread. It just goes to show you that hate towards Jewish people is alive and well in Montclair!

Never mind all that! It seems convenient you had to mention the young man by his "ethnic" name Ramirez and also mention the number of stories in his house, just to make sure all the white people reading this rest easy that it's one of "those" people in an overcrowded house in the ghetto that did it, not a white person!

Consider the terms thrown around on this site in relation to Newark: "pirated," "counterfeit," "sent to the slammer." What about the good people in the community? Why all this talk of crime and jail whenever you say anything about Newark? Is it because Newark is predominantly black?

Maybe someone should alter the software in your racist minds!

Unless you're signing a contract upon purchase that says that you agree to not copy the work, the above applies

Most software, books, cd's etc. have come with some sort of disclaimer stating that the distribution of the product is conditional on the receiver agree not to copy and re-distribute the contents. Ramerez, therefor had implicitly accepted this when he obtained the origuinals (unless of course he had stollen them in the first place).

As a matter of fact, mikey, there is a fair dinkum amount of "congress" in my life.

Plus, unlike thee, an understanding of grammatical congruence and the need for and uses of Thomistic logic.

Something, as it happens, you share with Reverend Al (if not the marshmallow-puffed glory of his hair, all sheen and sprayed obedience but without the least bit of substance). The Rev, however, is so successful a race baiter and hustler that politicians will always these days take his calls. Whereas I doubt that occurs even when you telephone Councilman Mattox, laserlad.

cathar,

will you be at the holiday party?

j

Cathar, you're babbling.

"Most software, books, cd's etc. have come with some sort of disclaimer stating that the distribution of the product is conditional on the receiver agree not to copy and re-distribute the contents. Ramerez, therefor had implicitly accepted this when he obtained the origuinals (unless of course he had stollen them in the first place)."

EULAs are not legally (or morally, since they're on the INSIDE of the package and can only be read after purchase, making the contract void) binding. They're tossed out of court regularly.

Schupo -

Your antisemitic comments are disgusting and offensive. You need help and guidance. In the meantime keep your hate to yourself.

"Your antisemitic comments are disgusting and offensive. You need help and guidance. In the meantime keep your hate to yourself."

I've already addressed the accusations of antisemitism. Your accusations are falling on deaf ears - there's no hate at all.

That's what Hitler said, "hiding."

Have some courage and announce who you are, for God's sake!

The smackdowns by the RIAA, coupled with the easy access, price and selection of iTunes and competitors have resulted in a lot of people realizing that buying stuff is more fair to the people who make and distribute that stuff.

True Appletony, but I wonder if the music industry ever would have caught up to the 21st century and allowed legal downloads if it weren't to counter the threat from illegal downloads.

It's easier just to steal all that stuff. Who cares about the stupid artists

The smackdowns by the RIAA, coupled with the easy access, price and selection of iTunes and competitors have resulted in a lot of people realizing that buying stuff is more fair to the people who make and distribute that stuff.

There is a large body of people, some organized, who strongly disagree with this view on many levels.

"That's what Hitler said, "hiding." "

Godwin's Law prevails once again.

If you're going to accuse me of antisemitism, you'd better have an argument other than my use of the phrase "jewboy". You know nothing about me or my philosophies on free speech. You don't know my family, you don't know my friends, you don't know my dating patterns, nothing. It's immediately assumed that because I used a six letter word that you, not I, have associated with antisemitism rather than a tongue-in-cheek jab, that I'm antisemitic. Suddenly everyone is an armchair psychologist with the capability to determine that I have some sort of psychological disease.

People seem almost eager to find antisemitism, so they jump at the first chance to sink their teeth into what they wish to see as hate speech.

I refuse to apologize for my statement. I refuse to accept your claims that I'm somehow an anti-semite. If you're going to believe that the use of a word, and not the INTENT behind the word, is what makes someone antisemitic, then you'd damn well better think that Eddie Murphy, Richard Pryor, Dave Chappelle all hate black people when they use the word nigger. Anything less would be hypocritical. And, coincidentally, anything near that would be stupidity.

If you really want to find out who I am, you can find out. Google does wonders.

You're a German helmet?

Article 1 Section 8:
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

This "exclusive Right" not only includes the right to make money, but the right to set conditions on distribution (the GPL,as I mentioned before, may create "free software", but it also puts very specific conditions upon its distribution).

There is a real problem with big business pushing to extend "limited time", so that the copywrite is changing to be a way of encouraging the creators to create to a way of protecting corporate "cash cows".

Ramerez is makingng money of the labor of others and not compensating them for it. He is an exploiter.

"You're a German helmet?"

With a nazi attitude, to boot.

No, keep trying. I didn't say it would be easy, but it's out there.

"Article 1 Section 8:"

I don't recognize laws as having any moral standing - often the law is not based in any reasonable thought, as in the case of the criminalization of marijuana.

On the topic of downloading Music:

Today on WNYC FM. Also available at www.wnyc.org, live, by podcast and archived for later listening:

This Download Brought to You by Coke
Soundcheck
Airs weekdays at 2PM on 93.9 FM
Online file-sharing is routinely blamed for the steady decay in record sales. But record companies are now starting to work with the same networks they’d previously been suing. Can the "if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em" strategy work? Today, we talk with our guests about file-sharing as a marketing tool and what it means for music fans.

"I refuse to apologize for my statement."

You are an embarassment to Temple Ner Tamid.

You are an embarassment to your "Jewish Blood".

You are an embarassment!

"You are an embarassment to Temple Ner Tamid.

You are an embarassment to your "Jewish Blood".

You are an embarassment!"

Whatever you say, hypersensitive politically correct anonymous internet dweller!

whatever you say, BIGOT

"whatever you say, BIGOT"

Prove it.

Schupo is a disgusting anti-semite.

The best thing to do is totally ignore his ignorant hate-filled statements

Linda Silver is anti-American and despises free speech. Ignore her attempts to destroy the philosophy behind the first amendment and force her beliefs on appropriate language on other people.

SHE'S A FASCIST! CALL THE UN!

Please shun schupo. He's a bigot and a troll.

"Please shun schupo. He's a bigot and a troll."

Cowards. The lot of you.

maybe we should call him schmuko as suggested above since he does seems to be some form of penis!!!!

"maybe we should call him schmuko as suggested above since he does seems to be some form of penis!!!!"

loL!!!

you can wiggle
and you can dance

but the last drop always gets on your Schupo

He played / a sax / had no B.O. / but his whiskers scratched / so she let him go / Schupo

"I'm your penis/I'm your bundle of joy, desire."

I'm your penis/I'm your bundle of joy, Schupo

I'm your Penis I'm your fire, At you desire, schupo

Said Farmer Brown, / who's bald on top, / "Wish I could / rotate the crop/Schupo

This isn't a joke. Schupo is a virulent racist and anti-semite based on his awful comments. Please do not even dignify his hate speech with a response.

LINDA_SILVER

A++++++++ TROLLING WILL TROLL AGAIN

Schupo, I have no great interest in this matter either way. But you've aroused the local version of the Furies here because you said something truly stupid. So, whatever you're really like, just back off and go to ground, because at this point you're just defending your "right" to toss around a very base canard indeed. It does you no credit, you know? To some, it's even as if you're posting from that "conference" they're holding right now in Teheran, the one even David Duke is attending. You dug this hole, all subsequent efforts at a response by you do nothing more than widen it.

shupo is crap

ignore him

i really hate anti-semite schupo

move to iran

"So, whatever you're really like, just back off and go to ground, because at this point you're just defending your "right" to toss around a very base canard indeed."

I'm not defending my right to speak however I want (despite the fact that I would if that were challenged). There's no logical train of thought to go from be calling someone jewboy to the accusation of anti-semitism. If someone draws that connection, it's based on their own interpretation of my words and is their fault, not mine. If they want to act on their emotions and not on logic, so be it, but illogical thought is at best cowardice.

Schupo, illogical thought is the very driving stuff of Baristanet, be serious here. (Didn't you note how a hider picked up on the Iran thing after I first mentioned it?) And have as pleasant a night as possible, even as you please can the debate, which is senseless and will only lead to lasermikey entering the fray. Just smooth your feathers and shut up for a while.

"Schupo, illogical thought is the very driving stuff of Baristanet, be serious here."

Which is the precise reason I push buttons here. I enjoy watching other people get irrationally emotional. Other people's idiocy gets me through the day.

in the middle of the night
in the middle of the night i call
your name
oh schupo, oh dchupo, my love will
turn you on
in the middle of the bath
in the middle of the bath i call
your name

" Don't use your jew-trickery to harm me, as I'm impervious to your attacks.

Posted by: Schupo | December 2, 2006 1:05 PM "

So now:
Jewboy and
jew-trickery

but NO, it's not anti-semitism " If someone draws that connection, it's based on their own interpretation of my words and is their fault, not mine."

Yes, it's everyone elses's fault that you, SCHUPO ARE A BIGOT!!!!!

Dear Schupo,

I sent your comments to Rabbi Kushner at temple Ner Tamid in the hope that you can be helped with your self hatred and self loathing.

You don't have to live with the pain that you have. I do think that you are a prime candidate for conversion to Catholicism. There are many nice churches in Baristaville. Pick one- you'll never have to tell anyone that you were once a Jew.

Respectfully, the post above which seems to display anti-Catholicism (famously referred to as "the liberal form of anti-Semitism") really only adds peat fuel to the fire. And it and so many other posts jumping on the rather hapless, weirdly defiant Schupo are of course by anonymous hiders. If you want your own words to be a bright beacon against bigotry, after all, it helps to supply a valid email address so that others may contact you and then congratulate you properly for being such an exemplar.

"Yes, it's everyone elses's fault that you, SCHUPO ARE A BIGOT!!!!!"

Did you ever stop to think that I, as a jew, am using jew as an "insult" in order to disarm the word? If I throw around the word kike like it's meaningless, when the KKK tries to throw it at me, it means nothing. Words only have the meaning that YOU grant them, and I'm not granting jew as an insult any meaning.

It's the fault of people like YOU - those who think that "jew" is capable of being an insult - that fuel anti-semitism, NOT ME. Just like the people who get upset at the word nigger - it's just a word, and so long as you choose to get offended by it, the racists are going to have ammunition to fight their battle.

"You don't have to live with the pain that you have. I do think that you are a prime candidate for conversion to Catholicism. There are many nice churches in Baristaville. Pick one- you'll never have to tell anyone that you were once a Jew."

Now who's the bigot, hypocrite?

jew-trickery isn't an insult?

It is to me...and I'm a Jew.

"jew-trickery isn't an insult?"

It's an insult if you choose to take it as an insult. This, however, can only be blamed on you.

blame? You BLAME ME for your bigotted statements.

I bet you blame your teachers for the facts that you didn't learn and your parents for who you are.

Take some responsibility for your own life.

Main Entry: 1blame
Pronunciation: 'blAm
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): blamed; blam·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French blamer, blasmer, from Late Latin blasphemare to blaspheme, from Greek blasphEmein
1 : to find fault with : CENSURE
2 a : to hold responsible b : to place responsibility for
- blam·er noun
- to blame : at fault : RESPONSIBLE
usage Use of blame in sense 2b with on has occasionally been disparaged as wrong. Such disparagement is without basis; blame on occurs as frequently in carefully edited prose as blame for. Both are standard.