Department of Wishful Thinking

Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If to-day he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him, — 'I see no probability of the British invading us;' but he will say to you, 'Be silent: I see it, if you don't.'

"The provision of the Constitution giving the war making power to Congress was dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons: Kings had always been involving and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally, if not always, that the good of the people was the object. This our convention understood to be the most oppressive of all kingly oppressions, and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us. But your view destroys the whole matter, and places our President where kings have always stood," -

Abraham Lincoln

um, maybe the links are relevant because --for better or worse depending on who you are--bush and cheney are the current president/vice-president?

goddamn its a slow news day in baristaville

"Again, it is a singular omission in this message, that it, no where intimates when the President expects the war to terminate. At it's beginning, Genl. Scott was, by this same President, driven into disfavor, if not disgrace, for intimating that peace could not be conquered in less than three or four months. But now, at the end of about twenty months, during which time our arms have given us the most splendid successes--every department, and every part, land and water, officers and privates, regulars and volunteers, doing all that men could do, and hundreds of things which it had ever before been thought men could not do,--after all this, this same President gives us a long message, without showing us, that, as to the end, he himself, has, even an imaginary conception. As I have before said, he knows not where he is. He is a bewildered, confounded, and miserably perplexed man. God grant he may be able to show, there is not something about his conscious, more painful than all his mental perplexity!" A. Lincoln on James Polk's incursion into Mexico

"What is conservatism? Is it not adherence to the old and tried, against the new and untried?" Lincoln's Cooper Institute Address, February 27, 1860.

"...But other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play ?"

"The greatness of Napoleon, Caesar or Washington is only moonlight by the sun of Lincoln. His example is universal and will last thousands of years....He was bigger than his country--bigger than all the Presidents together...and as a great character he will live as long as the world lives."--Leo Tolstoy, The World, New York, 1909

Imagine if he had lived to finish out his second term, how much better off this country would have been 100 years later....

He deserves his own Holiday

Imagine if Gore had been rightfully installed as President in 2000, how much better off America would have been...

my hope is that some more boring gasbags out there search the internet for ironic lincoln quotes and paste them at length here...

and yeah, we would have been just great with gore. he was a real whiz-bang like bush

Despite the efforts of the rollicking libertarian crew down at Auburn and at the Mises Institute to paint Lincoln as a reprehensible tyrant, he remains one of our very greatest Presidents. He was committed to the sanctity and the importance of the union of states. And he was a generous man to his political enemies in the main, as, famously, neither Clinton nor Carter has ever been.

Amazingly, too, he was a Republican. (Did you know that, lasermikey?)

And for the poster who wrote in the most simplified of terms of Polk's "incursion" into Mexico, you are much welcome to agitate that we give back, oh, let's say Texas and California and much of Arizona and New Mexico to the Mexicans. But that might have you in common cause with some very radical groups indeed, and you really wouldn't want that, would you?

"Imagine if Gore...."

Yeah no more Global warming(despite a week of 14 degrees)

But the we'd all be dead from mad arab extremists who walked all over a pacifist President.

Are you referring to Carter as a pacifist president? Um, if so, those were not arabs...

....But WHY is it illeagle to scream "FIRE" in a theatre (when there is none) ~ but NOT against the law to scream "THEATRE" in the middle of a Fire ? Ummmm. You say, Open thread to discuss any/all things Lincoln up top. Okay, my 2003 Lincoln Town Car is the best car I've ever had. 3.5 years & not a single problem, big or small. Worth every penny.

Oh, Happy Lincoln's Birthday day to all !! :)

this one's a knee slapper too

http://www.whitehouse.org/

Thousands More Dead In Continuing Iraq Victory
December 18, 2006 | Issue 42•51

Statistics released by the Department Of Defense estimated that 2,937 U.S. troops and over 100,000 Iraqi civilians have died in the ongoing American military victory in Iraq.

General George Casey, Jr. lauds "another plainly measurable step" in America's victory.
"Victory deaths are at a higher level than we had anticipated, yes," Gen. George Casey, Jr. said at a press conference shortly after the figures were released. "But one of the crucial lessons of our Vietnam experience is that a victory, in order to remain victorious, can't be abandoned halfway through, or in the case of Iraq, one-eighth of the way through."

"And significantly more troops may be required if we are to continue to enjoy that victory, especially if this turns into an all-out civil war," Casey added, stressing that it was still too early to deem the victory a "quagmire."

Debate continues over whether U.S. troops should be withdrawn from the Iraqi theater of victory. While some in Congress argue that a withdrawal would force Iraqi leadership to enforce the victory on their own, many military experts say that Iraqi troops remain insufficiently trained and unprepared to handle the daily perils of victory.

President Bush has consistently warned that if we hand over victory to local forces right away, there's a risk that victory may worsen, as Iraqis won't be able to contend with the guerrilla attacks and improvised explosive devices that claim the lives of dozens of the victorious every day.

"We're paying dearly in the form of American lives," Bush said, "but, plainly speaking, that's just victory for you."

Casey's remarks came nearly two weeks after some 200 Iraqi Shi'ites died in a series of car bombs in Baghdad's Sadr City, the largest single victory-related death toll since the U.S. won the Iraq War in 2003.

In an address to the nation Dec. 10, President Bush predicted that, if efforts continue as they have in Iraq, "This could become America's longest victory ever," Bush said.

We have had presidents who were great leaders like Lincoln and FDR. We have also had presidents who were terrible and dangerous tyrants like Jackson and Nixon. Mark my words, history will not be kind to George W. Bush.

The president has too much power. We have known this since Nixon and probably long before that. How can we say there are coequal branches of government when the office of the president has one giant vote with teeth, the supreme court has 9 indelible votes, and the congress struggles to gather all its votes into a cohesive will. This form government is obsolete and is only effective in denying it citizens their democratic desires.

I believe its time to do away with the executive branch and reform the congress into a parliament. If a prime minister get out of line then he is sent back home. Parties would come and go like the wind. We might have a government that embodies what Lincoln said in The Gettysburg Address, “government of the people, by the people, for the people.”

We have had presidents who were great leaders like Lincoln and FDR. We have also had presidents who were terrible and dangerous tyrants like Jackson and Nixon. Mark my words, history will not be kind to George W. Bush.

The president has too much power. We have known this since Nixon and probably long before that. How can we say there are coequal branches of government when the office of the president has one giant vote with teeth, the supreme court has 9 indelible votes, and the congress struggles to gather all its votes into a cohesive will. This form of government is obsolete and is only effective in denying it citizens their democratic desires.

I believe its time to do away with the executive branch and reform the congress into a parliament. If a prime minister get out of line then he or she is sent back home. Parties would come and go like the wind. We might have a government that embodies what Lincoln said in The Gettysburg Address, “government of the people, by the people, for the people.”

"This form of government is obsolete and is only effective in denying it citizens their democratic desires"

Take it up with Mr. Jefferson, oh dim-witted one.

When someone like lasernutter uses a phrase like "mark my words," it is time to revoke forever his day pass from the asylum.

And mikey, "reform the congress into a parliament?" Like the one Oliver Cromwell served in? I genuinely cannot imagine what prompts your nonsensical, crazed posts, but their tone worsens as you rant on. You get dumber with age and exposure. Are you so desperate for attention that you spout this cant? And at 2:38 this past morning, presumably because you were out of Ambien?

Under the present system, I can divide my votes for the president, the senate and the house among the various parties (usually two) as I see fit. This makes the congress more independent of the executive power. Under a parliamentary systems, the parties would be even more powerful than they are now.

Obviously, parliamentary systems do work for many countries, but our system has worked for us for over two centuries.

"If you had a European prime minister who experienced what we've experienced it would be expected that he would retire or resign," - William F.Buckley on George Bush's handling of Iraq

"" How can we say there are coequal branches of government when:

the office of the president has one giant vote with teeth,

the supreme court has 9 indelible votes,

and the congress struggles to gather all its votes into a cohesive will.

This form of government is obsolete and is only effective in denying it citizens their democratic desires."

--
Exactly how the founders envisioned it.

The Nitwit only likes the system when the libs are at the helm.

Problem is Mickie the libs are wasting their time with meaningless resolutions.

You libs are making a mortal mistake here. Your blind hatred of one man is clouding your judgment.

Before the election you had no plan. Today you have no plan.

Before the election you were in disarray. Today "congress struggles to gather all its votes into a cohesive will" ?????????????????

How can you strugle if your "VOTE" (meaningless resolution) means NUTHING ???????????

Good luck "gathering your collective will".

In the mean time serious people are making serious decisions on how to win the war.

Mickie,

The seRGE is coming.........................

Breaking News from North Korea

Bill Richardson reports that

Kim has agreed to a nuclear agreement.

This is a tremendous break through and only points out the power of negotiation.

Richardson is recommending that the President send NK more nuclear reactors uranium 235, plutonium 239 and tons of money as a result of their promise.

More on this later. A lot more...

here's a news flash: bush lied about WMDs in Iraq and stole the 2000 election

The president is breaking the law and violating the constitution. The congress can not gather the consensus to remove him from power. I would say that is a big problem. The president has too much power and this has to change.

The Nitwit only likes the system when the libs are at the helm.

Unfortunately, this is a problem with both liberals and conservatives.

BTW, isn't possible to refute another's arguments without all of the name calling?

The seRGE is coming.........................

sounds as if you like to play with yourself.

"...our system has worked for us for over two centuries."

Ah, but that's before the likes of Lasermike came around to illuminate us all.

If the Republic party had the fidelity needed for their positions they would have impeached the president long ago. Where is that party that was so concerned about the constitution and the bill of rights?

Do tell nit wit.

congress is your fault.

even if they had a voice they could do nuthing.

because you push a vote for something that means nuthing.

Mickie has a new word

"Republic party"

The Republic Party

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsqprEihjXg

"The seRGE is coming."

FYI:

serge 1 (sûrj)n.
A twilled cloth of worsted or worsted and wool, often used for suits.

I would like to know what the code means. "seRGE" what is with the upper and lower case?

Another gem from Washington Post

In keeping with their constant quest to saddle the USA with the fault for the growing unrest in he Middle East, the Washington Post has unleashed another article, replete with some efforts to blame-the-USA-first, titled "Across Arab World, a Widening Rift".

In the first paragraph, writer Anthony Shadid illustrates the traditionally intertwined nature of Egypt's Sunni and Shiite communities showing us how they have so easily coexisted in the recent past but quickly gets to the warnings of the danger of the Shiites "rising".

Naturally, this is the fault of the USA who has left Arabs with a sense of "powerlessness and a persistent suspicion of American intentions." The rise of unrest is also blamed on the "United States and others for inflaming it".

Later in the piece, Shadid takes further aim at the USA in particular and the West in general.

Fascism and racism all in one post. You stupidity is astounding and just a friendly reminder that Nazism is always lurking.

"Fascism and racism all in one post. You stupidity is astounding and just a friendly reminder that Nazism is always lurking."

Fascism is the only system of government that has the potential (POTENTIAL) for absolute freedom and equality.

WOW! We have an actual fascist here! That is amazing! What town do you live in?

To "Yes we are at war w/ Arabs"

I am of "Arab" decent, born here in the United States. Who exactly am I at war with?

"WOW! We have an actual fascist here! That is amazing! What town do you live in?"

Jumping to conclusions again?

Can we all take a collection and send Lasermike back to school so he can study history?

yousef evidently

No, just reading your post. Sound pretty fascist to me. Freedom is slavery? Slavery is freedom?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/02/12/kevin-rudd-attacks-aussie-prime-minister-john-howard-over-obama-remarks/

What parliament looks like. The prime minister steps out of line, WACK!

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/02/12/kevin-rudd-attacks-aussie-prime-minister-john-howard-over-obama-remarks/

http://www.crooksandliars.....

Stopped reading right there.

Mikey, no accusations of Nazism today. In fact, never. They're grossly crazed and wildly unfair. We all know you're a total numbnut, and I even think the "we" includes yourself, for all your hapless blustering. You're so easy to get a rise out of, that's the only reason somebody above "praised" fascism, because they knew it'd set you to writhing and frothing. Sometimes, I'm even actually sorry for you that you've so easily become the posting equivalent of the village idiot here.

And no video suggestions, either. I already know you really can't read for comprehension and that you don't read much anyway.

Mikey, no accusations of Nazism today. In fact, never. They're grossly crazed and wildly unfair. We all know you're a total numbnut, and I even think the "we" includes yourself, for all your hapless blustering. You're so easy to get a rise out of ( and believe me , I know a thing or two about "rises" !) that's the only reason somebody above "praised" fascism, because they knew it'd set you to writhing and frothing. Sometimes, I'm even actually sorry for you that you've so easily become the posting equivalent of the village idiot here, whereas I prefer to be the poster boy for the Village People ( gosh, I love men in cowboy suits !!)

And no video suggestions, either. I already know you really can't read for comprehension and that you don't read much anyway.

Laser boy,

"The president is breaking the law and violating the constitution"...Huh?

Please cite us one credible incident where our Pres has broken the law and violated the Constitution. There there, don't you feel better now knowing that Bush may not be your version of a competent leader but he is doing his best to uphold the Constitution. Your issue is that the Congress doesn't have the 'balls' to stand up to the Executive Office.

Oh, remember we are fighting a war against criminals who murdered over 3,000 innocent Americans and all the Dems want to complain about is that we denied some prisoners the 'right' to be read their religious material.

Don't ever forget 9/11/2001

Hey Mickie,

Seems as though Mookie Sodie has left Iraq and the Madhi's for Iran.

Seems as though he fears that the seRGE was gonna get him..

All this on the day when your boys in the House voted on a meaningless resolution against the President of the United States.

Oh yeah...... but they support the troops. God Bless the troops. We just need a few more to die so we can prance their bodies on ABC NBC CBS news.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Guess Mookie didn't get Imam Iman Al Zwahiri's memo today.

Iceman -

When the president conducted domestic wiretapping without a FISA court order.

It is illegal for the president, the administration, or any government agency to torture POW's inside and outside the United States. The supreme court ruled on that. It would appear that the president knew about water boarding and other nasty torture techniques.

Cathar, read "Conservatives Without Conscience" by John Dean.

Mikey, go read the Koran, the Bible and, on both the medieval and modern Mideast, Sir Bernard Lewis, Jonathan Riley-Smith and J. Bowyer Bell. But first, let's be sure the material I've suggested is age-appropriate. Can you read at a high school graduate's comprehension level? (Do you even have, for example, the slightest real understanding of the National Socialism you seem so fond of accusing others of practicing?)

Why, lasernutball, are you so fond of recommending that others read this or that tract that, uh, "buttresses" your claimed "progressivism?" But never anything of real edification to the contrary? I'd say you have a closed mind, but as you surely know, I remain dubious you have any sort of mind at all.

It must bug you no end, nonetheless, that you're simply not important enough to have your own government shadow or to have your phone tapped. But there you have it, you're not that important and never will be. And when people here (including self) stop responding to your dumb, mulish accusations and posts, it will finally dawn on you just how insignificant, and significantly unlettered, you really are. And you'll be lonely, to boot. (Which is a perfect opening for my "parrot," purposely.)

John Dean goes in depth...

Given the rather distinct beliefs of the various conservative factions, which have only grown more complex with time, how have conservatives succeeded in coalescing as a political force? The simple answer is through the power of negative thinking, and specifically, the ability to find common enemies. . . .

Important conservative opinion journals, like the National Review and Human Events, see the world as bipolar: conservative versus liberal. Right-wing talk radio could not survive without its endless bloviating about the horrors of liberalism. Trashing liberals is nothing short of a cottage industry for conservative authors. . . .

The exaggerated hostility also apparently satisfies a psychological need for antagonism toward the “out group,” reinforces the self-esteem of the conservative base, and increases solidarity within the ranks.

The heart of [New York University Professor John] Jost and his collaborators’ findings was that people become or remain political conservatives because they have a “heightened psychological need to manage uncertainty and threat.” More specifically, the study established that the various psychological factors associated with political conservatives included (and here I am paraphrasing) fear, intolerance of ambiguity, need for certainty or structure in life, overreaction to threats, and a disposition to dominate others.

This data was collected from conservatives willing to explain their beliefs and have their related psychological dynamics studied through various objective testing techniques. These characteristics, Dr. Jost said, typically cannot be ascribed to liberals. - John Dean

Sound familiar?

When "a person acting under authority performs actions that seem to violate his standards of conscience, it would not be true to say that he loses his moral sense," Milgram concluded. Rather, that person simply places his moral views aside. His "moral concern shifts to a consideration of how well he is living up to the expectations of the authority figure." - John Dean

Anything ringing a bell here?

I especially like how you over look that well established law breaking by this president. At least you admit it.

"Right-wing talk radio could not survive without its endless bloviating about the horrors of liberalism. Trashing liberals is nothing short of a cottage industry for conservative . . . ."

Sorry pal RWR survives on it's own merits. People listen because they identify with what they hear. Trashing libs is a layup, look at the ammo you put forth.

People "tune out" left wing radio it is tone deaf and because the are bombarded w/ Liberish (TM) all day long.

Air AmeriKa comes to mind as the poster child for the fairness doctrine in order for AA or any other lefty show to be viable the FCC must reinvent competition.

And Mickey,

"When the president conducted domestic wiretapping without a FISA court order.

"It is illegal for the president, the administration, or any government agency to torture POW's inside and outside the United States. The supreme court ruled on that. It would appear that the president knew about water boarding and other nasty torture techniques."

Your RIGHT, it is illegal to do the above...................................

Thats why W is still in office, cause he acted w/in the limits of the law.........

How's your resolution coming you numbskull?

lasermike, you pontificate about "well established lawbreaking" yet you do not know the law. You rely on people with an agenda to tell you the law but, simply, you do not know it or the nuances needed to establish whether or not the executive's actions may be constitutional even if (and it is an if) contrary to statute.

James Risen, Richard Clark, Bob Woodward, the NY Times, the Washington Post, and a slew of other reporters and news sources have it worked out. What's your excuse?

The only reason the president is not being impeached is because the congress is nearly split. Prosecution of administration officials are being conducted at this moment and more are on the way. CIA officials are being prosecuted in Germany in absentia. The administration admits to what they have done but claim they have authority to do so. The American people are so beyond all this stuff. It is you few who are the fringe. You are not mainstream and you never really were.

laser , don't worry about these clowns - they're pissed and frustrated because their votes don't count anymore especially if they're living in this part of the country. So let them rail all they want. The rest of the Country has passed them by.

"We found the weapons of mass destruction." –President Bush, in an interview with Polish television, May 29, 2003 "Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere!" —President Bush, joking about his administration's failure to find WMDs in Iraq as he narrated a comic slideshow during the Radio & TV Correspondents' Association dinner, March 25, 2004

"We found the weapons of mass destruction." –President Bush, in an interview with Polish television, May 29, 2003 "Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere!" —President Bush, joking about his administration's failure to find WMDs in Iraq as he narrated a comic slideshow during the Radio & TV Correspondents' Association dinner, March 25, 2004

"We found the weapons of mass destruction." –President Bush, in an interview with Polish television, May 29, 2003 "Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be somewhere!" —President Bush, joking about his administration's failure to find WMDs in Iraq as he narrated a comic slideshow during the Radio & TV Correspondents' Association dinner, March 25, 2004

"Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties." —President Bush, discussing the Iraq war with Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson, after Robertson told him he should prepare the American people for casualties

"And you'll be lonely, to boot. (Which is a perfect opening for my "parrot," purposely.)"

Actually, your pet gerbil would be better positioned to discuss "perfect openings" with you, loser.

"Don't ever forget 9/11/2001"

Don't forget what? 9/11/2001? What happened then?

Poor Icehole, still confusing Iraq with 9/11 when even the Poster Boy in Chief has given up trying to sell that lie to the American People.

Where's Bin Laden, Icehole ? You know, the guy who actully masterminded the 9/11 attacks ?

Stupid Shit.

Bin Laden who? Is that Saddam's brother? What's his involvement in this war?

Can't believe there are still people out there that are supporting this administration. Damn, I guess people have too much invested to back out now.

That Kool-Aid is some powerful stuff - Colin Powell

Hey Mickie,

The seRGE is coming

Hey "Cancelled by a ratio of 3:1"

Give me something new

Ever look at a red/blue map of the US?

Fly over country toots.

You don't win unless you win in the middle

RGE?!? Not RGE?!? ahhh ahh ah.

....

Posted by: your doin wonders in Joisey |

yo brains, then explain the last elections. your vote still does not count.

And thats what the democrats won, the middle.

" The rest of the Country"

IS RED only the fringe coast are blue.

Good luck in 08

The seRGE is coming

Iraq
Afghanistan

and

Iran.

Let's get it on

"The seRGE is coming"

The wool commonly used in suits is coming?

BTW, you is crazy.

Hey Mickie, could this be it?

Report:

Baghdad, Feb 15: Thunderous booms were heard across Baghdad as US and Iraqi forces launched a major operation in a Sunni insurgent-infested neighborhood on Thursday, a spokesman said.

Iraqi Army Brig. Qassim Moussawi, spokesman for the Iraqi commander of the Baghdad security plan, said a joint US-Iraqi force had moved into the southern neighborhood of Dora.

The statement came a day after thousands of US troops swept house-to-house through mostly Shiite areas near a militia stronghold in northeastern Baghdad in the opening phase of the long-awaited Baghdad security crackdown.

Interesting if we are losing and the war is hopeless, why did Mookie go?