DeCamp: Can You Hear This?

Great! Now I can park in the Sushi Hana parking lot again without being hassled by Rascal's goons.

Thanks BaristaGals!

Folks - even if you cannot boycott that day, please sign the petition.

We respect that you need to get to work, so whatever you can do to help is greatly appreciated.

I applaud this move for its clear logic!

Boycotting an obviously failing business will surely improve the company's performance.

And what does "And how could you not boycott without a petition?" mean?

Let's see: a petition being promoted by an unidentified person? how is that even legal or valid? DeCamp has the right to face its accusers.

I wrote it hopped up on double shots and 3 hours of sleep...I think what I meant was "boycotting=making a statement=signing a petition=change"?

Sorry for my post above...I meant to post it under the Red Cheetah/Rascal's story.

At any rate, we only have 6 signatures on the petition. Surely we have more people in Baristaville who are outraged at DeCamp!

Actually, I'm identified on the petition. You have to give your full legal name when creating it.

If you'd like to call DeCamp yourself, my name is:
Kate Rados
katerados@yahoo.com

Cool?

Perhaps, if there was much good will towards DeCamp, from the Montclair community, they would have had some support in this case.

When the general feeling is we are being overcharged for poor and often rude service, it's hard to generate some goodwill towards DeCamp's case.

How bout a permanent change to the Train or NJ transit?

Oh, I forgot to mention the lack of a Monthly pass. If DeCamp really believes they have the right to so many daily commuters, they should show some respect and offer a monthly plan. The plan should also be within range of NJ transit rates.

Real Hawker
don't they offer a monthly.? It comes in the form of tickets but it's still discounted vs what you would pay for 40 individual tickets.

Maybe Im just misunderstanding.

I think what Realhawker means (correct me if I am wrong) is that it would be nice if DeCamp offered a monthly pass like the train does: One card or ticket, instead of an accordian of 40 tickets or more! I would much rather carry around a monthly pass than that mess.

Boycotting an obviously failing business will surely improve the company's performance.

It could serve as a wake up call to DeCamp that relatively poorer customer service versus Midtown Direct is the bigger cause of decreased ridership, not the $0.65 fare difference. If a boycott moved DeCamp to publicly and energetically make clear to its customers that they appreciate their business, it could improve things.

I will go out of my way to fly Virgin Atlantic versus British Airways or American Airlines, even when BA or AA has a better schedule or a nonstop where Virgin has a stopover. Why? Even against two well-established and very good airlines, it is the superior offering. Every time I fly Virgin, the employees seem like they like their jobs and truly appreciate my business.

DeCamp can't just sit around bitching about how unfair it all is and suing on shaky legal claims. They need to become the superior offering for commuters or they will lose, period.

And what's with all the talk of DeCamp not being subsidized? Don't they get various credits and subsidies from government programs? Being able to use the Port Authority Bus Terminal must be subsidized. I believe that they've gotten special support for newer coaches. They get a special lane during rush hours. All those are subsidies.

isn't the problem rather obvious?

A single card, in a town without clear moral fibre, would just get passed around and used multiple times by "friends" and "family".

"It could serve as a wake up call to DeCamp that relatively poorer customer service versus Midtown Direct is the bigger cause of decreased ridership, not the $0.65 fare difference."

They "wake up" and then see that there is still no competition, and then go back to sleep again.

Everyone will not ride for a day (well, 10 or so people anyway) and then the next day, they'll all ride again.

Good luck with that.

ROC: The train offers monthly cards/passes...what's the diff?

MM: NJT obviously doesn't mind the sharing. Also I suspect a conductor might have a little more time than the driver to check ID's.

Aren't you always the one talking about apples and oranges?

I took the train for years. Never once did a conductor ask to see my ID.

But, really, shouldn't we move on to the more serious problems with the tickets? The shoddy perforations and bad fonts used?

ROC, NJ Transit bus drivers also have to view monthly bus passes. They simply have to check the security features, usually a color or hologram, to verify authenticity. Nary a delay for that.

Maybe you look honest?

Looney, the problem (and I am just speculating here) might be NOT that the passes are counterfeit but than they are shared.

I must say if I were running a bus company in a town where regularly I hear people boasting about NOT reporting their rennovations (in order to cheat on their property taxes) I'd issue one-use tickets too!

ROC-

Nobody gives a crap if passes are shared. They can't be used by more than 1 person (with the same commuting hours) on a given day so there is no difference. This is a non issue.

In fact, a monthly pass would actually benefit DeCamp's profits because the current ticket method allows the purchaser to spread the rides across 2 months. Whereas a monthly pass would allow service in only 1 given month.

Also Im quite glad DeCamp allows you to buy your monthly on a rolling basis as you need it, so we never face the monster lines that the NJT riders face at the first of each month.

Be careful what we wish for folks, we might just get it.

Chiming in again.

Yeah, the monthly pass/no-pass issue is a difficult one.

What got me so revved up about DeCamp isn't so much about the money.

It's about the TREATMENT of their customers.

I've seen people being insulted, mocked and verbally abused. I've heard tales about their lack of customer service and downright rude behavior.

And, as we've seen lately, they've made paying customers cry.

Having the basic human right to a safe and enjoyable ride should be top priority, no matter the cost.

"Having the basic human right to a safe and enjoyable ride should be top priority, no matter the cost"

I just LOVE Montclair, really I wouldn't live anywhere else!

and I've just lit candles and started a drum circle.

I honestly had to laugh at all of the OUTRAGE here...what the hell is wrong with people? If you don't like the service, take the train and that will be that. DeCamp is clearly already hurting, so an exodus of passengers will drive them out of business anyway.

There are about 8 million things we truly ought to be OUTRAGED about going on in the world rather than shitty bus service. I suggest that all the whiners expend their energies on something that will truly make a difference and get over yourselves.

I am totally going to share my pass if they offer one! I'm going to go into the city each morning. Then give the pass to my wife, child and dog to use. I will do this by... um... going back out of the city and then... or I'm going to FEDEX my pass back over to da 'Clair.. or... damn this isn't going to work.

Are you going to pick me up and drive me to the train every morning Whippersnapper?

Not everyone has the luxury of an alternative.

I'd have to drive myself to NYC which is not a fiscally sound option.

Wrathos, you I like!

I am all for trying to improve Decamp's service. But we don't have weekend train service people! So suggesting that having Decamp go completely out of business would be a good thing is a bit off track.
Personally I would rather take the train any day but for late nights getting back it is nice to have both options. And on weekends at this point it's still all we've got.
I wouldn't expect Decamp to improve much. It's an ancient company that was handed down to people who aren't exactly full of business sense.

The real issue should be the traffic congestion on Rte 3. DeCamp is only operating in a crappy envionment. What has to be done is 1) create a disincentive for individuals to drive into Manahattan. I look out from the #66 each morning; I can't count the number of cars with one person in them. the Port Authority should charge $10-$15 to one person at Hudson crossings. 2) hard and fast bus lanes, with enforcement for infractions. 3) less cars, faster bus rides, happier commuters. PERIOD

I occasionally commute on Decamp and marvel at how remarkably rude and abusive the drivers can be. I can't understand why anyone thinks you can treat customers that way...

Great post earlier on Virgin Air vs. AA or Delta. Cost is not the factor but quality of customer service.

Any/everyone can boycott DeCamp by simply taking a little more time in the morning and evening to get on NJ Transit. Or combine with your neighbor to carpool or bicycle to the train station (no one on the DeCamp routes lives further than a 20 minute bus ride).

Decamp must stop whining and bitching as if they are the victims instead of acknowledging their old operating model.

The real issue should be the traffic congestion on Rte 3. DeCamp is only operating in a crappy envionment. What has to be done is 1) create a disincentive for individuals to drive into Manahattan. I look out from the #66 each morning; I can't count the number of cars with one person in them. the Port Authority should charge $10-$15 to one person at Hudson crossings. 2) hard and fast bus lanes, with enforcement for infractions. 3) less cars, faster bus rides, happier commuters. PERIOD

The real issue should be the traffic congestion on Rte 3. DeCamp is only operating in a crappy envionment. What has to be done is 1) create a disincentive for individuals to drive into Manahattan. I look out from the #66 each morning; I can't count the number of cars with one person in them. the Port Authority should charge $10-$15 to one person at Hudson crossings. 2) hard and fast bus lanes, with enforcement for infractions. 3) less cars, faster bus rides, happier commuters. PERIOD

Oh whine, whine. I don't have to drive you to the city, because look what I found after 2 seconds on Google--options for traveling to the city when DeCamp was on strike. Options galore...

http://www.njtransit.com/var/var_servlet.srv?hdnPageAction=deCampTo

Read this from a former Baristanet post--great advice for the DeCamp weary:

Drive two or three miles to the Allwood Park and Ride in Clifton (Route 3 and Broad). Two huge parking lots (both being expanded), and plenty of street parking, all free. NJTransit buses during rush hour run every four minutes or so, gets right onto 3 into the city. Drivers invariably nice, and you'll save hundreds of dollar a year (unlimited monthly now $101, going up about 10 percent in July, I think, but will then also "cross-honor," meaning you can take the train home to Montclair at night, or vice versa).

I just did your legwork for you in 5 minutes (including the time it took to write this post).

i didnt ask you drive me to the city. I asked you to drive me to the train. If I take the car what does my wife do about taking care of erands and doing things with the kids. Oh wait Im supposed to get a commuter who doesn't know me from a hole in the wall to come pick me up and drive me to Allwood.

And then what about my daily exercise that I get from walking to/from the bus stop each day? Are you going to pay for gym membership to replace the exercise I lose on a weekly basis? Google that and let me know what you find.

So you are an expert at Google searches, save it for someone who cares

In Buenos Aires they really know how to "send a wake up call"!

I'm not getting any of this, all of which sounds like an enormous amount of whining to me.

Did I read somebody bitching about having a stack of tickets rather than a monthly pass??? Are you for real? Do you not own a briefcase or a purse? I actually LIKE the tickets. I can share them with family members or friends who ride only occasionally. I can spread them out over 2 months which covers me on months where I commute less because of vacation, etc. And watching the ticket guys at Port Authority fold them as they come out of the machine is one of those stupid simple pleasures that I kind of look forward to -- I always compliment the ones who fold them into a single rather than a double stack.

Rude bus drivers?? One or two maybe (one in particular on the 33G in the evenings), but exactly how do you propose to petition niceness into existence? You're commuting to New York folks. Get over yourselves. Rudeness is an art form here. Besides, there are a couple of drivers who are so pleasant they more or less make up for the others. (I do worry that a couple of them are seriously overcaffenated, however.)

I've been riding the 33G and occasionally the 66 for about 3 years. I'm generally very happy with the service. It may not be the cheapest commuting option, but it's still a bargain.

I agree with the post that says that boycotting a business which is in serious financial trouble is just plain stupid. The real problem is dwindling ridership. I've driven a few mornings, mostly out of shear laziness -- there's just no way driving is (or should be) more convenient than taking the bus. And if you live within walking distance to a bus stop and are a typical commuter, there's virtually no justification for driving. I think everyone's time here would be better spent ENCOURAGING DeCamp bus ridership and supporting policies that discourage all of those single occupant cars stacked up at the entrance to the tunnel. My personal favorites are the single occupant Lincoln Navigators. Talk about rude bus drivers -- these people are driving their own personal buses into the city every day.

Finally, a note of sanity from "anonymous". bunch of crybabies. I've been on #66 for over 10 years. RARELY have I seen the driver behavior that so many here seem to think is endemic. You get as good as you give, people; starting a conversation with the dispatcher or drivers with "where is the 5:25?" isn't helpful. if you think about it, there are so many variables in the commute - traffic, weather, accidents - that can influence the ride, it's a wonder that there is any regularity at all. Finally, almost 40 signatories to the whiny petition? that's almost one whole busload. Now THAT will send a message.

Patience, Tribble (That's the trouble with you tribbles!).

It's only been up for a day.

How about a pool?

I say 100 max. The winner gets a train ticket!

To the Naysayers:

Thanks - you just helped prove my earlier point that everyone should be allowed to have their opinion.

I and a few others believe differently from you. Last I checked, that should be ok. It's ok with us that you disagree.

It's just too bad that your energy couldn't be used to help bump up the signatures to a higher number.

Oh and to those who complained about our complaining and then complained about their lack of alternate transportation?

If you look at some of the original posts, we said that even if you cannot boycott, you would be able to help by signing the petition. In fact, if you check comment #2, you'll see a something to that effect.

These ideas aren't fun unless you cut them down, right?

Meanwhile, it's been a fun exercise of our right to free speech and our right to take a stand...as little as it is.

Baby steps!

Wrathos

Oh and I'm in, ROC. I'll play Price is Right and go for 101 :)

Let's hear it for 44 posts and counting!!!

I hate Decamp so good luck runnin' them (and their stinkin' busses) out of town!!

(But then again, I drive to work).

The reason I'm not signing the petition, if my prior post was unclear, is not that my time and energies are misdirected, but that I think the premises on which the petition are based are false and that the petition itself is unfocused, vague and largely misses the point.

Thanks for your opinion Anon. Sincerely.

The bus sucks. Drive to the train station and be done with it. Plus there's a liquor store in hoboken and brews all over the place in penn station for the ride home. You can't brew up on the bus without getting a summons.

I'm with ROC...I can't stand the font on the tix either.

Yup - I sent a note to the 160+ bus Clever Commuters...as well as 300+ train people

"If you don't like the service, take the train and that will be that."

That isn't that. The bus runs later than the train, so if you are out past 11:52 you HAVE to take the bus home. Often when I am at the bus station to catch the last bus I can't buy a ticket because the ticket window has closed early. I can't buy a ticket on the bus because the bus driver won't sell tickets on the bus leaving Manhattan.

Speed limits? Optional. The DeCamp drivers drive like maniacs (except for this one old guy). I notice this when I'm on the bus and where I live along the 66 route. The buses are constantly speeding in the 25 mph zone.

Tailgating? Mandatory. Sharing the road with DeCamp is super stressful. It is really annoying being tailgated by these guys all the time driving 25-30 mph in the 20-30 mph zone. It's worse on Rte 3. 60 mph is never fast enough.

Stop signs and red lights? Optional for a DeCamp driver.

Turn signals? Optional. You ever follow a DeCamp bus? See them on Rte 3? You never know where they are going. Cutting people off to them is an art form.

If there is one thing that bothers the drivers to no end, it's when unsuspecting passengers try and pay their fare to NYC with unexact change or with bills in larger denominations (esp $20).

Is DeCamp that cash poor that they can't ply their drivers with $100 in 5 dollar bills before each route? Do they understand that people bank at ATMs in this century and typically the smallest denomination is a $20?

ICeman-

Sometimes the typeface exceeds the space on ticket and carries past the perforation.

This is cause for great concern as you never know if you will be ceremoniously accused of poor ticket ripping or some other lackluster personality trait by the drivers.

Seriously it keeps me up at night.

All th way to 54, now. Power to the people! Did some of you riders ever think about buying more than one ticket at a time? they are good for 6 months. And, driving to the train or to the NJT lot in Allwood costs you gas money, aggravation, and is bad for the environment, no?

my breakfast guy was mean to me last week, and the sandwich was sloppy. i'd like to start a new petition against him. i guess i could go to a different diner down the road, but i'm lazy.

For any and all barista residents who are don't have a NYC commute, you are not comprehending the levels of frustration that Xtreme commuting can reach.

You are not fit to comment.

Please do not ask us to Google our way to better solutions
or refer to those who are impacted on a daily basis as whiners.

Our concerns are valid and until you are an Xtreme commuter yourself you will never understand.

Sure the call for 'friendlier drivers' might seem a bit drastic on it's own, but couple that need with some basic service problems then the want for change becomes clear.

"Please do not ask us to Google our way to better solutions or refer to those who are impacted on a daily basis..."

No need for you to Google. A daily enema will take care of that little problem quite handily.

are you speaking from experience?

I am surprised at you Crank. It is always helpful to use Google.

Those who talk shit should first look within their own bowels.

Sorry crank I didnt realize I was ever speaking to you first.

But thank you for taking my screen name so literally.

Whipper,

I made the move to NJT buses from Clifton park and ride over a year ago.... never looked back. Saving $100 a month is nice... and I get my Monthly MAILED to me, and charged to my companies transitcheck... can't beat that.

There is a slight cattle feeling at clifton park and ride though... and the fact that you have to drive there.

Real Hawker

do the buses really arrive every 5 minutes?

Thanks

Those who hate Decamp will have nothing to worry about, come Fall 2008. That is when NJT is expected to begin weekend train service. You will be able to buy a used Decamp bus at auction soon after that.

62, now. up from 54 at 8am. wow...i guess attentions have wandered to ridiculing Crisco...ha!

Sorry crank I didnt realize I was ever speaking to you first.

But thank you for taking my screen name so literally.

Posted by Shitalker | May 17, 2007 10:27 AM

------------------------------------

LOL! I thought that was a direct response to my little joke! That's one on me!

6:25am, #66 bus. on-time tis morning at Watchung Plaza. Whene got to Bellevue Plaza, the driver waited for one passenger, running down Bellevue Ave from North Mountain. Yeah, ALL the drivers are rude and inconsiderate....

I have been riding the 33/88 for over 10 years. The quality of DeCamp's service has clearly dropped over time.

The reduction in buses on the route, the many drivers who seem to be interested in seeing how fast they can drive to NY rather than keeping to a schedule (not to mention the often unbelievable rudeness to passengers), the incredible inability of the dispatchers in Montclair to be able to give you any meaningful information about where any of there buses are at any point in time, all add up to an incredibly frustrating and unpleasant way to start and often end a day.

Whine? We all pay for the right - not the privilege - to ride the bus. God help the poor people who have to get on an Four Corners who regularly have to stand in often heavy traffic on the way to NY. If there were a real alternative for many people they would clearly take it. Until there is, everyone should yell out loud about the problems we face.

I have been riding the 33/88 for over 10 years. The quality of DeCamp's service has clearly dropped over time.

The reduction in buses on the route, the many drivers who seem to be interested in seeing how fast they can drive to NY rather than keeping to a schedule (not to mention the often unbelievable rudeness to passengers), the incredible inability of the dispatchers in Montclair to be able to give you any meaningful information about where any of there buses are at any point in time, all add up to an incredibly frustrating and unpleasant way to start and often end a day.

Whine? We all pay for the right - not the privilege - to ride the bus. God help the poor people who have to get on an Four Corners who regularly have to stand in often heavy traffic on the way to NY. If there were a real alternative for many people they would clearly take it. Until there is, everyone should yell out loud about the problems we face.

I dont like conflicts and getting into altercations I can normally avoid. I dont normally like to complain about service or customer relations. I generally take bad luck and happenstance in stride; however I believe that my latest incident with DeCamp is a good summary of the companys lackluster customer service.

After leaving work late, I was running down the PABT fourth floor hallway in order to make the 12:45AM Route 33 Bus.

As some riders may know, this is the absolute last bus on this route and missing it means either a $60 taxi ride back to Essex County or a phonebook hunt to find someones available couch in Manhattan.

I slammed open the gate door only to watch in horror as the bus was backing out. However I felt relieved that I was able to make eye contact with the driver, hoping that he shared the same painful thoughts of being stranded in the Big Apple.

As I sprinted towards the slowly reversing coach, I tripped over my right foot and landed face first in front of the bus onto the dirty and filthy concrete, splitting open my chin and gushing a considerable amount of blood. I was dazed a little bit but collected myself rather quickly with the intention of getting on this bus, controlling the bleeding and getting the hell home.

Once the coach ceased its backward maneuver and turned its wheels to exit the gate I reached the door of and once again made eye contact with the driver while vigorously pressing a hankie against my injured chin. I waited for what seemed like one or two seconds for him to open the door, however I was stunned with I heard the bus thrown into gear and speed off toward the ramp leaving me dirty, bloodied, and now stranded in New York.

I wearily took an expensive cab back home spending all of the tips that I had earned that night.

My phone and email inquires to the company have gone ignored.

What kind of company would leave one of their regular customers stranded AND injured?

I am a student and need to save every scrap I earn in order to make a living while I am in school. DeCamp is one of the few luxuries I am willing to put up with because it is the closest service to my folks house.

I dont have a car. I have no means of getting to alternative forms of transportation. My student health insurance barely covered the hydrogen peroxide and large Band-Aid it took to fix my chin.

I see most complaints are about customer relations. I am complaining about the lack of social responsibility.

But what does DeCamp care? Im just another $158 a month to them.