The Pole, The Petition, The Pastor and Police On Park Street

"I hope they will represent the voice of the community."

Not their job, sorry. They are supposed to apply existing zoning laws and ordinances, not just follow the dictates of a loud mob.

How much could the Church possibly be getting for rental of the space? A couple of hundred a month? Why don't the residents just 'pay off" the Church? If the rental was $200/month, the $10K they anticipate spending on legal fees would pay for 50 months!

Of course, this could start a whole new "opportunity" for organizations in Montclair!

Then again, why doesn't the TOWN offer one of its properties, one not close to any homes?

what's more of an eye sore? that banner on your lawn or a tower? i'll go with the banner on the front lawn.

"How much could the Church possibly be getting for rental of the space?"

In an area like this more like $2500 per month.

I think ROC is even low on his estimates, friends of ours own a building downtown that has cell phone towers on top, and they've told us that the towers generate more than double what the entire building generates.

I'm just amazed at the church being such a poor neighbor. As far as my standard Christian upbring goes, selling out to the highest bidder sort of goes against most of the things Jesus taught. Same goes for Martin Luther, come to think of it. I think Pastor Moser needs to read those 95 Theses again...

And if the church is losing members (and money) due to a loss of parishioners, as they claim? Why not close up shop and sell the (valuable) land, prime Montclair real estate, in fact. Maybe the loss of parishioners is speaking volumes that the church can't hear. They might need better connectivity to their flock than a cell tower can provide.

"Baristanet has not heard from Omnipoint/T-Mobile."

They tried but the call was dropped.

The cell tower has nothing to do with the 95 theses posted on the cathedral door, whippersnapper. Be serious. But it does have everything to do with even a church being allowed to do what it wishes with its own property, within reason. As opposed to the "community" telling the church what it can do. (And if Branski moves in protest, others will only line up to buy his home at what his own words would cast as a move made in distress for a house thus being sold at a distressed price.) There is no way to frame this one as any kind of dispute over devotional differences.

And if the parish gains increased revenues from its tower, why, it might then be better able to offer outreach to the Montclair community in the form of new programs, new hymnals, etc. This is surely a more positive step than moving out of Montclair (where at least you don't apparently want this church anyway) altogether. Jesus traditionally is much in favor of proselytization, after all, and to some of us revenues from a cell tower on church property are at least as useful here as a folk mass is to others.

The 95 Theses have to do with independence from Rome/Pope but also disgust with the corruption of the Catholic church and their obsession with wealth and monetary concerns. Seems a tad related to me.

$2500 a month? I have a big yard that they can use. Really, reply here.

And that sign on the lawn is a joke.

Only 300 names on an online petition? That's not a lot. How many cell phone users will benefit?

Buh-Bye Branski. (And if it goes up and you stay...... I hope the church puts up a sign about you).

$2500 a month? Where do I sign up?

"But it does have everything to do with even a church being allowed to do what it wishes with its own property, within reason"

Installing a monstrosity in a residential neighborhood is far from "within reason"
Pastor Moses should hang his head in shame. His actions speak volumes about his love for neighbors. If Pastor Moses and the church want to act like a for-profit company then they should pay taxes like every other corporation and not invoke tax exempt status. I find the church's behavior to be tasteless.

here

How about a compromise - let the church have the tower - but since cell phone companies are not tax exempt the church can no longer be either.

jimmy229oz

From what I read, when a non-profit does this kind of thing they sometimes do have to pay income and property tax on the leased portion. I don't know if this is the specific case here, but would it change your opinion if they did pay the tax on the thing?

in fact, this seems to be the case.

How's this for a solution:

They make some of these towers so they look kind of like trees from a mile off, right? Why not place the tower smack dab in the middle of the church, but make it look like the steeple?

This way, the church can get its extra revenue (which should be taxed) and the neighborhood will only have to deal with a slightly taller, blinking, possibly radiation emitting steeple. Perfect for everyone!

And how, whippersnapper, does either "disgust with the Catholic church" or even with an "obsession" with money by Luther's replacement for it fit into a mere complaint by the local liberal version of bluestockings over a cellphone relay tower? Seems to me you might be letting your own anti-clericalism show from beneath your skirts (the ecclesiastical kind, to be sure) with your comments. Do you even perhaps see the likes of Branski and Thornton as modern-day leaders of the "peasants' revolt?" I'm sure, given their residence in Montclair, that for all their own non-devotional sputtering they're much better off than any German peasants were in the 15th century.

It is much like Baristanet, of course, to provide a forum for the perpetually aggrieved on this one. Maybe, then, those still angry over Christopher Court can merely shift their impotence to this matter.

We are all whores to something, why should the church be any different?

I'll bet every single on of the people with a sign has more than one cell phone in their household.

I'll also bet nearly all the signers of the petition also have cell phones.

I'm surprised no one has awarded Miss Martta for the best comment of the day!

We do reward Miss Martta every day Kay....We all love her

"Maybe, then, those still angry over Christopher Court can merely shift their impotence to this matter."

300 signed the petition-- Me thinks they already have.

As I learn every time Baristanet runs an item even tangentially related to matters of faith and morals, posters here aren't the least bit devotionally minded. (Their idea of someone speaking ex cathedra might as well be Ted Mattox as the Archbishop of Canterbury.)

Making them, I'm guessing, the sorts who check that "spiritual but not religious" box on online dating applications. In any case, and I'm not a Lutheran (don't even play one on Sundays), I do wish they'd leave this local church alone on this one.

And your point is what, Cathar? That you need to belong to a denomination to speak about a church's actions within the community it serves? And what exactly does their desire to make money from a cellphone tower have to do with either faith or morals?

Awww, thanks, whomever you are. I rarely receive accolades on this site.

I have AT&T & I get fine coverage on Park Street.

Does AT&T have an 80-foot tower somewhere nearby? If not, why does T-Mobile need this one?

Whether this, or other religious congregations in Montclair, continue to be "local" may be central to this disagreement. As generations of families move and properties change ownership, older congregations have become "commuter congregations." This change has resulted in many congregation vs community disagreements in all types of neighborhoods, in Montclair and other municipalities. The phenomenon is so common that some foundations require congregations to submit letters of agreement from immediate neighbors before funding new congregational construction or outreach programs.

Over a half-century, I have been a witness and victim of astonishing changes in how these commuter congregations disregard the impact they can have on their neighbors' quality of life and property values. Isn't there something in the Judeo-Christian doctrine about "doing unto others as ye would have them do unto you."?

why should the church stop at cellphone towers? how about a huge bank of vending machines in the front yard too?
the right to swing your arm ends where your neighbor's nose begins. let's see a show of hands--who would love to have one of these monstrosities in their neighbors yard, sitting a foot away from their property line, with their children playing in its shadow?
my children attend the high school, half a block away, and i am very upset about this proposed tower.

I still want to know why the TOWN isn't jumping into this. At $2500 a month they should be volunteering their properties! We've LOTS of them where they could put a cell phone tower.

"I'll bet every single on of the people with a sign has more than one cell phone in their household.

I'll also bet nearly all the signers of the petition also have cell phones."

THANK YOU, roc. it's more than a little hypocritical for Montclair moms and dads, who no doubt talk endlessly on their cell phones (even while driving with their tots in the back seat) and who probably have Blackberries and laptops, too, to protest a cell phone tower. How do they think their wireless gadgets work?

I wonder if they'd be so up in arms if the tower were going up in East Orange or Newark. I think not.

My point, loki, is that people here are awfully quick to yammer over the possibility that a local congregation may make a few bucks via a cell phone tower. So quickly that it indicates they don't at all care that a church might thus make a few extra denarii, and no matter that such added revenues would allow said congregation to continue spreading faith and good works. And I suspect much of this is simply Baristaville's brand of anti-clericalism. (The rush to wet-feathered sputtering, of course, seems typical of Baristaville at any time.)

For your penance, you might wish to give up your own cell phone for a while. If not now, at least the next time Lent rolls around. Since a "dig we must..." sort of situation seems to impel phone companies to build these towers, yes, it does seem a little teensy bit better that houses of worship might profit from this need as opposed to mere private citizens. Particularly since so few private citizens conveniently have steeples on their property already.

What are the odds of Zeta Jones being there for the big erection?.....of the tower

If only it were called Park Place and not Park Street... then Annette's Alliteration could be Absolute!

The income from 3 five year leasess could be in excess of one million dollars. The town needs to wake up. The pole can go near in the town yard 300 yards from this site and be one of many deals the town can make. Cell service in that area is horrible. This pole can carry 4 carriers at 25000 per year each.

The income from 3 five year leasess could be in excess of one million dollars. The town needs to wake up. The pole can go near in the town yard 300 yards from this site and be one of many deals the town can make. Cell service in that area is horrible. This pole can carry 4 carriers at 25000 per year each.

"If Pastor Moses and the church want to act like a for-profit company then they should pay taxes like every other corporation and not invoke tax exempt status."Posted by jimmy229oz

I agree! Why is a church allowed do this and not be taxed? When Churches act like businesses, they should be taxed as business.

Can I erect a tower for profit in my yard? Why is it OK for them?

"If Pastor Moses and the church want to act like a for-profit company then they should pay taxes like every other corporation and not invoke tax exempt status."Posted by jimmy229oz

I agree! Why is a church allowed do this and not be taxed? When Churches act like businesses, they should be taxed as business.

Can I erect a tower for profit in my yard? Why is it OK for them?