Whole Foods Gets Political

>>>Whole Foods Market® believes that beer and wine are a part of the food experience and that our customers want to be able to purchase beer and wine when shopping for groceries.

Whole Foods is absolutely right. NJ laws surrounding the sale of beer and wine are antiquated.

Agreed, Cosmic. This becomes glaringly apparent to me when I visit other states.

'Ya, but W.F. will charge you double the price that you could buy the same thing for at Bottle King.

While I totally agree the laws are antiquated, making a change of this magnitude without revamping the whole system could be a big disadvantage to small liquor store owners vs. the big grocery stores. And if license access is expanded for grocery stores, this will devalue the value of the existing other liquor licenses. The state would need to come up with some level of compensation for people who already paid a lot for their liquor licenses, if access to licenses is expanded within towns. I'm afraid it isn't as easy as it seems. And believe me, I am all in favor of more liquor and more licenses! But it's a conundrum.

Like I said in the previous thread on this subject, if anyone can put fourth a logical argument for the two-license limit I'll listen. Otherwise I'll be adding my name to the list on my next visit to Whole Paycheck.

"But it's a conundrum."

One of my favorite meritages, Conundrum was formerly made by Caymus until a bitter divorce split up the ownership of the winery. http://www.conundrumwines.com/

I have also found that buying wines at King's in Caldwell was sometimes a bit more expensive than buying them at other retailers, but many times -- when they had some labels on sale -- they were less expensive than package stores. It is hard to beat the prices at Bottle King or Total Wine in W. Orange, but I think the convenience of buying ingredients for a meal and then the wine you wish to serve with it at the same place far outweighs a couple of bucks in prices. When we are entertaining larger groups, we do just that at Costco in Willowbrook.

I am willing to bet that the current system is tightly controlled by a small number of wholesalers with strong political connections. Perhaps it is time to upset the grape cart in New Jersey.

when buying my favorite snack ingredients - ritz crackers and tabasco sauce (remove a ritz from the sleeve and add multiple drops of tabasco)I would prefer that my favorite purveyor of grocery's also was able to supply me with my 6 pack of pabst.

Then how does Bottle King have 13 locations in NJ?

maui, I'm not positive but I don't think this would change the number of available liquor licenses, it just removes the prohabition against one store having more than two. I believe they would still need to obtain a local license.

As far as big versus small business, I understand wanting to keep the smaller guys in business, but I'll yield to capitalism in this case. If any particular town wants to craft their zoning rules to keep the bigger liquor warehouse places out that's fine, but I think it is perfectly reasonable to allow food stores to sell alcohol.

back when whole foods here in montclair did sell wine, i used to buy their own house brand of '365' cabernet, white zinf, etc. for like, 6 dollars a bottle. they were absolutely delicious. i was sad when they stopped carrying wine, because those house brand wines were the bargain of the century.

Damn good question hrh, and I was wondering that myself as I was writing above.

Maybe they are individually owned, or jointly owned, and they license the rights to use the name?

I wish they would sell some hard liquor too. After I'm done with my 6-pack and bottle of cab, I'd like to be able to purchase my Black Haus for a few rounds of shots.

A few years ago, when it was 'Fresh Fields' they sold beer.

They are right. Most other states allow the sale of beer and wine in food markets. Beer and wine are foods.

I love the Puritanical liquor laws that reach back to the 17th century.

About 10 years ago when I lived in Boston, liquor could not be sold on Sundays, unless it was the period between Thanksgiving and New Years Day when you could buy booze from about noon to five pm. I think that the Sunday prohibition was finally removed completely a couple years back.

Pennsyltucky is also one of my favorites. If you want to buy beer, you have to go to a special beer distributor, which only sells beer and you can only purchases cases and kegs (no six packs or twelve packs). The only way to get a 6 pack is to go to a bar that has a special takeout license. And all of the wine and liquor sales are handled by a state run monopoly.

If you really needed a fix on a Sunday in Massachusettes, you would just drive up to New Hampshire. A bit laborious but it worked - especially since Kitty Dukakis Day was on a Sunday.

State Street Pete and anyone else who wonders why the two license limit is in force, research the state's late 70's proceeedings against Art Stock and the issue of "hidden or undisclosed beneficial interests" in liquor licenses. The matter also refers back, in part, to fears of organized crime infiltration and money laundering, and to a somewhat understandable desire to protect mom and pop liquor stores from larger-scaled competitors.

The Big Daddy's chain in Florida is also sometimes referenced as something New Jersey legislators don't want in this state. For those who don't quite get this one, Big Daddy's advertising slogan used to be "You never know who you'll meet at Big Daddy's." Well, some young Florida women in fact first met Ted Bundy at their neighborhood branch of this chain.

Anyway, it's a complicated story, which Whole Foods should acknowledge. And there is also the issue of "buying co-ops" which are in fact common in this state already, where liquor stores combine to buy wholesale and to advertise jointly. These too might come to fear the marketing might of Whole Foods if the existing laws were changed. So while "you" might wish to buy your beer and wine at Whole Foods in West Orange, this alteration in procedure could affect existing spirits vendors in this town and most others across the state. New Jersey is one of very few states where beer and wine sales are rare in markets, yes. But it's also one of a relative few states where liquor stores exist in such profusion, and the two issues are linked.

"New Jersey is one of very few states where beer and wine sales are rare in markets, yes. But it's also one of a relative few states where liquor stores exist in such profusion, and the two issues are linked."

I think it's really supply and demand coupled with population density. The amount of stores is still relative to population. At least this is a state with a strong handle on organized crime and corruption or it would really be out of control.

I was out on Rt 23 last week and passed many furniture stores. Got to wondering why none of them sold bread ?

Just a little wit, to make my /\ point.

I think Whole Foods and the like should stick to what they do best, and allow the independant wine & spirts shop owners to make a living as well, rather than try & invade as many markets as possible. Lets say they DO get total clearance for liquor and wine & beer. Whats next ? Putting in a bakery?
I'm all for expansion in their field, bless them. But not at the expense of folks involved in the retail merchandising of other products, with smaller investment capital available.
By the way, many A & P markets do sell hard, soft & beer. It's a very very old license still honored.

I lived in NY, where there are no laws like here that I know of.

I will tell you that there are PLENTY of liquor stores thriving, despite how many supermarkets sell beer.

I agree with RealHawker. Almost every other state in the country allows supermarkets to sell beer and or wine-- and still has room for tons of liquor stores (that are successful).

I agree with RealHawker. Almost every other state in the country allows supermarkets to sell beer and or wine-- and still has room for tons of liquor stores (that are successful).

I agree with RealHawker. Almost every other state in the country allows supermarkets to sell beer and or wine-- and still has room for tons of liquor stores (that are successful).

I used to regularly buy wine from Whole Foods when they still had a liquor license a few years ago. I seem to remember that they had a great selection of inexpensive good wine (~$12) and they were (for the most part) from smaller wineries (i.e. not the stuff you'd fine everywhere else). Now I regularly make the trek out to Springfield to visit Wine Library...they have an awesome selection and the prices are decent.

Just got back from Colorado where you can't buy anything but 3.2 beer in a grocery store.

Would love to be able to pick up a bottle of wine at WF.

Connecticut banned Sunday sales when I lived there in the late '90s. And the Massachusetts laws were bizarre: they used to close the bars for something like four hours on election day so the drunks would have nothing else to do but vote. Perhaps that is how they got Dukakis. Or Romney. Or even my Uncle Teddy!

Hey, I've been to Wine Library a few times, too! But usually Bottle King on Blmfd. Ave on the Blmfd/Glen Ridge line. I hate the traffic & conjestion on Rt 22. It's a mad house at rush hour.