Full-Day K At Risk In Bloomfield

Oh good grief. The district is asking for cap waivers. No wonder the state said "no" to putting a very expensive new initiative in the budget. Like the State isn't pissed off enough at the Bloomfield BOE already? On the heels of the audit, let's not forget we have not heard anything about the QSAC report yet. Can't afford a new roof at the high school. Didn't want to pay for a new heater for Oak View (though they don't mind bragging about OV's blue ribbon). Not going to do anything about the ancient cornice that is contributing to structural deterioration at the high school. But for kindergarten, what the hell, what's $500K among friends?

"We hear some parents are taking immediate action"

They should have done that years ago when the budget for the HS renovation was being dicussed. That's where the all day K money went. I guess it time to hire some of those all important high school kids to babysit after school at the expense of the parents. I'm one more BOE upset away from saying homeschool all of them!

Nah, they didn't treat the high school kids like they were important. More like they were lab rats. How many mazes can they run through and still get to class on time? How much carbon monoxide can they inhale and still pass the HSPA? How much mold can we grow beneath the leaking cornice before they all have allergic reactions to mold?

I love your line: One more BOE upset away from saying homeschool all of them!

I guess now I need to call Rice and Codey and tell them NOT to support this appeal.

This is something that should rightfullly be decided by the taxpayers of Bloomfield who will paying for it, not state legislators who have time and again proved they are much better at spending other people's money than exerting anything resembling fiscal discipline.

As for me, I'll be voting no. Yes, full-day K would be nice, but since moving to Bloomfield 2 years ago, my annual property tax increase has been well more than double my raise at work - and most of that's the school portion.

Sorry folks, but I'm tapped out. And I'm not alone. Digesere knows that, too. That's why he wants to do an end-run around the voters and force us to pay for this against our will.

This is silly. Bloomfield needs to catch up with other towns and set up full day K as soon as possible. I will be calling Rice and Codey and whoever else I can find a number for. See you March 25!

You're killing me. Ron Rice couldn't find his way to Bloomfield with a map and a flashlight. You do know this is the man who voted AGAINST the funding formula that recently brought four million extra dollars in State aid to Bloomfield. But go ahead, call him.

I whole heartedly agree with Pork Roll. The taxpayers should decide whether or not to pay for full time day care or kindergarten.

"More like they were lab rats. How many mazes can they run through and still get to class on time? How much carbon monoxide can they inhale and still pass the HSPA? "

Funny ha ha - at Montclair High we had to cross streets to go from class to class and smoking was still allowed on campus. These days what's a little carbon monoxide and some indoor mazes...

Yes the tax payers should decide. Yes, if this decision doesn't get changed, it should be added as a 2nd question on the budget so the citizens of Bloomfield can decide which way they want their town to go.

Facts:

? With full-day Kindergarten, teachers would be working with a maximum of 25 students per day, enabling them to give more individual attention on a daily basis and the ability to address student?s and parent?s needs more quickly. Currently, half-day programs have 1 teacher handling up to 50 students.

? Children in full-day Kindergarten have twice the time to engage in learning and reinforce those lessons with more hands on activities. Therefore, allowing the child more time to transition between subjects with less stress.

? Providing full-time Kindergarten would hold our school district to the same standards as many of our neighboring communities such as Montclair, Cedar Grove, Clifton and Glen Ridge, who currently have full-day programs.

? A full-day Kindergarten is attractive to outside home buyers and is an asset to our community as a whole by providing an appealing environment for new families.

Transition between subjects? Addressing student and parent concerns???

We are talking about Kindergarten, right?

When I was in grade K; our subjects were Snack Time, Nap Time, Recess, and (for the advanced kids) shoe tying and the ABCs. WTF are 6 year olds learning these days that they won't also pick up in day-care or from a well-trained nanny or half-competent parent for the other half of the day?

Sounds like some Bloomfield parents are just looking for an excuse to have the rest of the town chip in for their day-care bills. If they felt so strongly in the justness of their cause, they'd let this come to a vote and live with the results instead of trying to circumvent the system.

Sadly this isn't about what is better for the kids or the school system anymore. This is about accountability for over spending and while it's the BOE's mess it's the kids who will suffer the consequences. I hate being involved with school budgets- I've always felt that it should be up to the parents, but the parents have really let things get too far. And to say we have to do this to keep up with neighboring towns in silly- just another version of keeping up with the Jones. If you want the resources another town has then move there and pay the already outrageous taxes but don't force this town to be it's also overtaxed equal.

The state for once made ABSOLUTLEY the right decision. There is no justification for the cap waiver here. This is clearly a second question type of item. I would hate to think the system actually works, but it is sure working here.

Id like to clarify this point: "Currently, half-day programs have 1 teacher handling up to 50 students."

ONE teacher is not teaching 50 kids at a time. One teacher teaches an AM & PM class which may or may not have the full 25 per class.

When I moved to Bloomfield in 1986 I got involved in the BOE and attended board meetings when I was pregnant with my first child and full-day kindergarten was being bandied around way back then and I was told then that it would be a'comin soon as it was going to be state mandated. That was 19 years ago.

As a 2 parent working household we put our child in full day kindergarten/aftercare (fortunately provided by my comapny at the time) and while I agree that many folks think it is a waste, the times are not the same as they were way back when. Technology has made so many advances that many kids are at a disadvanatage when coming into first grade without a solid K base. Especially since most of the school day is spent "teaching to the test" that are mandated and passing them ties into how much money we get as a district. Also it helps the ELS population get a leg up on mastering the english language so they will not be so far behind their peers.

That being said - I would rather see our money make the necessary repairs to the HS roof and the very important building upkeep cause let's face it folks, when the buildings really start falling down it won't matter a hill of beans if there is 1/2 day or full day kindergarten if you can't use the building.

Put it to a second question and lets take care of first things first!

Just for the record- the State of New Jersey will, in 3-5 years, mandate that for educational reasons, full day K will be a part of all schools. It is better for the children.This is uncontested. If you want your school systems to be of value- it is a critical part. It will eventually effect all grades more than any other program. Most towns have full day Kindergarten. If you want to go against this reality, fine. But just know that people will not be moving to Bloomfield for this reason, and people will certainly be moving out. The fact that pilot programs aren't Plan C- say- full day Kindergarten in a few of the elementary schools- with a combination of "in need" and "tuition basis" where K parents help pay for the pilot program, is an obvious solution to the mess. Obviously, parents with young families generally don't post on sites like this so you are not hearing the overwhelming need for this.

Considering our tax and BOE situation and planned condo development, childfree people seem to be who we want to attract.

Also all the snarky comments on the Bloomfield, NJ.com forum about how slummy the center is and how full of those people probably aren't inspiring young families to move here any more or less then half day kindy.

No, Mary, it's not so obvious. I'm pretty darn sure that you cannot charge tuition for a public school program to in-town residents. But you should attend the next BOE meeting and ask.

BTW, I have been mostly an at-home mom &/or pt employed mom. When my kids were in kindergarten, the educational day did not end at 11:35 in the morning. After lunch we read books, did craft projects, went to the library and bookstore for story hours. We went to the park, went grocery shopping, cooked together. Education is not confined to what goes on inside the schools' classrooms. So I guess in essence my kids did have full-day kindergarten and certainly could read, write, operate a computer, and do basic math before entering first grade.

I think something people are forgetting is that there is a pre-k program in Bloomfield, which serves the needs of the population. In the quest for full-day kindergarten, they wanted to eliminate the pre-k. Was there a plan to deal with the consence? (ie/ more basic skills instruction in kindergarten and primary grades to play catch up for those children?)

GNM would I be correct in guessing you don't have kids?

The Bloomfield Library and Town Rec department have great programs set up for pre-k.

hrh, I think it's more about keeping up with the educational standard. I could give a damn about keeping up with the Jones. My kids are going to be at a disadvantage when they have to take mandated tests and compete with other kids in the area that do have the benefit of full day K. I'd like to see Bloomfield kids on an even footing with the majority of the other towns in our area. It will have a profound effect on the rest of their lives. Anne states it very well above, better than I can.

And I'm sure there are those who will say, then move to one of those other towns with Full Day K. Well, I'm afraid we might. I like Bloomfield a lot and I don't want to leave, but we've been wrestling with this literally for years. All other things being equal, nice town, nice people, etc, if the educational opportunities are lacking people are going to go elsewhere. I know more than a few folks who have left, or who plan to leave Bloomfield once their kids get to 1st grade, and I've tried to convince them that Bloomfield is a good place to live, but I can't blame them for wanting better for their kids, and I fear eventually we will have to follow them.

GnM - You've made remarkable progress since your days in remedial Kindergarten.

my kids learned how to read, write, spell, add, subtract, use a computer, etc... in K. there was no play time. the pre-k program is for a limited number of kids and they must be tested first to qualify.

Sorry- sent that too fast. Ideally, both pre K and full day K would be up and running. This will be mandated in 3-5 years.
And yes, I guess this town doesn't want new families with kids. Let's get the word out to realtors.

Sorry- sent that too fast. Ideally, both pre K and full day K would be up and running. This will be mandated in 3-5 years.
And yes, I guess this town doesn't want new families with kids. Let's get the word out to realtors.

Mary, are you dense? The school district's pre-k program is available to students on the basis of academic need, following the results of screening sessions. Mr. Abramo showed the value of the program in that the students made significant strides... That's not the same as story hour or play sessions at the library or rec department.

fyi- the preschool program is not only for special needs children- children in the school district that have preschool- which are only a few of the schools- generally get in. many special needs children are paying for preschool, like many children who do not have special needs.

Oye. There is special needs pre-k which is state mandated for students so identified. There is also the "regular" pre-k which in Bloomfield requires screening and the students identified as most in need of early intervention are enrolled. It's not a "come one come all" pre-k. It serves a specific purpose.

But, I do apologize for calling you dense, it wasn't nice.

anyways- i wish you get everything you want. in your town and in your school system. i've obviously got to sign off on this subject.
good luck

Parents need to pay up and stop whining!

You gave birth to those things, so you take care of them!

I say cut, cut, cut, cut, cut the fat out. If the parents can't pay, then find a relative or one of the 70 people at the soup kitchen to watch the monsters--pay them a few bucks an hour! It will give those people who need a few bucks a job!

And if you are saying, "why I would never leave my child with someone like that," you should of thought about that during the moment of intense passion!

avidreader, that's exactly right. not every kid can attend the pre-k. it has nothing to do with special ed/needs. that's a different program.

Just for the record- the State of New Jersey will, in 3-5 years, mandate that for educational reasons, full day K will be a part of all schools.
I doubt it. State legislators will be in no position to mandate it, and taxypayers will be in no mood to approve it. Severe (yet necessary) state budget cutbacks, a recession, a very unfriendly business environment, and a continued exodus of residents in search of more afforable venues will cause state tax revenues to shrink in the next 3-5 years.

(Not that our legislators acknowlege this, of course, since they are boldly forging ahead with family leave and universal healthcare!)

If you want to go against this reality, fine.
The reality is that the majority of Bloomfield taxpayers cannot afford to subsidize this. The overall socioeconomic demographics of Bloomfield are much closer to Belleville, Lyndhurst, and Kearney than Montclair, Cedar Grove, Clifton and Glen Ridge. People in this town are not as affluent as the towns you would compare us to.

But just know that people will not be moving to Bloomfield for this reason,
This would not be as detrimental as you would have us believe. If the township can ever get it's act together on downtown revitalization, and really leverage our great transportation options, Bloomfield could be an ideal destination for young professionals, empty nesters, singles, and other folks for whom a full-day K is not a great concern.

and people will certainly be moving out.
I've got news for you - people are and will be moving out because they cannot afford the cost of living here anymore, the primary component of which are our exhorbitant property taxes!

Hey, I'm all for giving our children the best education we can, but we have to balance that with the need to keep our town affordable, especially for the folks on the lower rungs of the economic ladder.

Obviously, parents with young families generally don't post on sites like this so you are not hearing the overwhelming need for this.
Right, which is why it should be put to a public vote, not decided on Baristanet...or decided behind the closed doors of the BOE or the state legislature!

and people will certainly be moving out.
I've got news for you - people are and will be moving out because they cannot afford the cost of living here anymore, the primary component of which are our exhorbitant property taxes!

People are already moving out of Bloomfield because of the crime rate--this will only expedite their move!

I can't believe the taxes that the residents pay there! You are not getting police protection. Who is greasing their pockets--residents of Bloomfield?

and people will certainly be moving out.
I've got news for you - people are and will be moving out because they cannot afford the cost of living here anymore, the primary component of which are our exhorbitant property taxes!

People are already moving out of Bloomfield because of the crime rate--this will only expedite their move!

I can't believe the taxes that the residents pay there! You are not getting police protection. Who is greasing their pockets--residents of Bloomfield?

I can't believe that for my 11k in taxes imy child is not even guaranteed a public school education that will help him to excel in his academic career! Children these days are not only learning to read and write in kindergarten, but they're also learning a second language and to do simple math. How can we expect our kids to master these skills if we don't give them ample classroom time to do so. Everyone is so quick to say that they can't possibly pay any more in taxes and that Bloomfield shouldn't be compared to it's more affluent neighbors. Well folks, is seems like this is a no pain no gain situation. Our neighbors may bring home bigger paychecks, but that doesn't mean that their children should have a better public education then ours. And don't forget...if we make our town a more desirable place to live, then you bellyachers can sell your houses for a bundle more than you bought them and move to where the grass is greener.

Not, your 11k in taxes pays for one child. So if you have one, your tax dollars don't pay for school, roads, police, fire, garbage, administration and all the rest.

So now an extra half-day of kindergarten is going to make or break our kids for the rest of their lives?

But then again, if that extra half-day is so crucial to the destiny of your child, then it's certainly worth you paying to place your child in a full-day kindergarten in a private school from your own pocket, no?

Our neighbors may bring home bigger paychecks, but that doesn't mean that their children should have a better public education then ours.
That's a rather naive statement. It probably shouldn't, but that's the way of the world. Just hike over a few blocks to Glen Ridge and you'll see why. More $$$ = nicer stuff and more opportunity. That's why I went to community college and then Rutgers, not Princeton or Harvard straight out of high school, even though going to an ivy-league school would, I'm sure, have helped me "excel" in my academic and professional career. Yet would it have been reasonable for me to have expected your parents to kick in a share to send me to Princeton, especially when they had to foot the bill to send you to college?

Yet this is what our property tax-fueled public education system hath wrought: a very unequal distribution of resources and limited choice as to how those resources are allocated.

I offer two suggestions:
- Lobby your public officials and state legislators to replace our current system of funding local schools thru property taxes with some sort of system in which all the tax dollars get funneled thru the state and then distributed to each town on an equal per-capita basis. That will level the paying field because each district will have to make do with the same X dollars per student, and those schools that excel will do so based on their ability to manage their limited resources wisely, not based on the depth of taxpayer pockets.

- Ditto for school vouchers so you can take your $11k to the school that you feel will do the best job educating your child.

"No pain, no gain" is a callously dismissive response to a very legitimate concern over the cost of education and higher property taxes. Besides, there is only so much pain I am willing to endure for your gain.

Just for the record, had full day kindergarten been in the budget- it would have cost each householder about 20-50 dollars more each year. As it stands, the school tax is going to be about 150-190 dollars, because of various loans. With full day included into the budget, it was going to be around 215.00. Although it sounds like the whole thing is off the table. This is how much money we are talking about. So if you want your taxes to go down, you'd better scream about something else.

Taxes to go down!? I'd just be happy if they would merely increase less than the rate of inflation!

But $20-50 here for this, $20-50 for that, and before you know it (as Everett Dirksen might say), you're talking about some real money.

This is incredibly important- or was. I agree, 20-50 here, there, is an issue. But this program would have come back to you in spades, in the long run. I promise. That said, its all probably a moot point.
Avidreader- you were mistaking the pre-k program with Early Intervention, which begins at the age of 2- perhaps even earlier, It is a phenominal program avail to all citizens- free therapists for those who qualify. Everyone who thinks their child may have special needs- should have their child checked. There is help for you.
I do not know if you can charge tuition for public school- but I do know the only area town that has pre-k, is Glen Ridge, and they charge 1,000.00 for ianyone using it.
Obviously, there is a tremendous amount of mis-information floating about.
Listen, we are all, basically confounded by our local government. Regardless of our opinions, that is one thing we have in common- be it the school or our town.
How are we going to work together to understand each other, understand whats going on, and change things.
This, I don't know.

No, Mary. I am not confusing the two pre-k programs. I am fully aware that sped students are entitled to a full range of services, including pre-k.

In addition to that program, Bloomfield runs a second pre-k... the one that's often placed in the second ballot question. That program has a limited # of seats that are available town-wide to 4 year olds who have been identified through a screening process to be most in need of the program. You don't just sign your kid up for that, it was not available to anyone who decided to register their kid. The child is interviewed and based on a scoring system is accepted or not to the limited # of seats available in the program, which is held at several of the elementary schools.

It was put in to place to catch the kids who appear that they will need basic skills assistance once they start school.

The full-day kindergarten fiasco would have eliminated the second pre-k program (not the sped pre-k) to the detriment of those children. Subsequently, you'd probably see a rise in the # of kids needing basic skills and resource assistance once they moved through the grades.

Wow, kindergarten doesn't seem like much fun anymore.

I went to nursery school, which I imagine is the equivalent to the much heralded Pre-K. My parents paid cash money for me to go. I remember collecting bugs and napping on a carpet remenent. Honestly, that's it.

Why does this now need to be paid for now out of tax dollars? My tax dollars.

Its no surprise I'm childless, but really why can't parents seem to understand that they have to pay for things when they choose to have a child--and that that should be taken into account before that decision is made?

Why should pre-k and full-day kindergarten be expected?

Well I didn't have the benefit of a full day Kindy - I'm amazed I can even type this - but let's do some math.

Bloomfield population is listed as 47,683 residents. Dividing that by 4, to make a rough guess at households, equals 11920.75.

11920.75 multiplied by $20 per household equals $238,415.

Now maybe my lack of education is holding me back, but that seems like a lot of money. However, when I include the knowledge that we have several people earning 6 figures on our BOE then I know the money is available to pay for this program ? we just have to get the funds allocated by taking control of the overspending and apply cash management to the situation, as well as accountability to the people doing the overspending.

You want full day Kindy ? then I guess its up to the parents to get the bigger issues resolved. The money train has to end and sadly this is the first program to be affected.

avidreader. go to the pre-k class. it has both special needs and kids without special need. again, basically it handles children in the few schools that are zoned for pre-k. 120 children. full day was going to be for ALL the children- around 400- in every elementary school. and yes, pre-k, particularly for special needs children, is important and both of these programs will inevitably be in place.
again, the majority of people pay for pre-k in bloomfield- whether they are special needs kids or not. just like they do in most towns. most towns do have full day kindergarten.
and yes, i agree- the bigger issues are a disaster and that is a very valid point indeed. do we stop the progress? do we all go downhill? or can we continue with the progress and resolve the bigger issues at the same time.
That is the key question, and one I can thoroughly empathize with. obviously, i am trying to continue the progress and get to the core of the disaster at the same time. you are perfectly legit in having the opinin that the whole nightmare has to be completely and totally chopped down.
if anyone actually cares, there is still the tuesday night board meeting that is going to be firey, i am sure. home and school associations and a huge network of parents are emailing and fighting away. jump out of baristanet, and into the battle field- whatever your opinion is-

I have neighbors with kids who have moved for better schools. They didn't leave over the 1/2 day kindergarten. They were very satisfied with the elementary schools. They left because of the test scores in the middle and high schools. Perhaps that should be the focus.

Sigh.

Mary, I don't need to "go to the pre-k class". Been there, done that. I've got one child who has graduated out of BHS and another who will be shortly. I have a list of home and school/boe involvement as long as your arm. I've read the literature, listened to the dog&pony presentations, haggled over the placement of the "typical" pre-k on the 2nd question a coupleafew times...

How old are your kids and how long have you been involved, and more important who's giving you information? Because you're getting some that's misleading.

You are correct that there are two distinct pre-k type classes in Bloomfield. One is for special education (by IEP). Students so-identified are entitled to public education from (I believe) age 3. The second pre-school program is for students who will be in "typical" classrooms in K-12, but who may struggle in class and require basic skills instruction (a prediction based on their pre-k screening). The "typical" (as opposed to sped) pre-k is in place as a way to provide early intervention for those kids so they're "ready" for kindergarten the following year, possibly not needing basic skills instruction later on.

Joe Abramo, the Director of Curriculum & Instruction, whose position was filled by Marie Cirasella (with new title) upon Joe's retirement, used to talk about this ("typical", not the sped) program all the time. Information would be presented annually at BOE meetings to justify its existance.

These "typical" pre-k classes (the ones that would be eliminated to make room for full-day kindergarten) are absolutely not open enrollment for anyone who lives in the area that's zoned to attend any of the elementary schools that house the program. The pre-k is not limited to students from those neighborhoods. The program (not the sped, the "typical") has been expanded over the years. Originally it was housed in 2 elementary schools. I believe space has been allotted in 4 in recent years. Any child of appropriate age who meets the screening criteria may attend the pre-K. If I live in Fairview and you live in Berkeley, and Berkeley has a pre-k classroom, your child will not receive preferential placement into the class based on geography. If my child has the "need" mine will be admitted and yours won't.

Like I said, you're being given some bad information.

While I applaud your wanting to get involved and fight for something you believe in (the kindergarten full-day program... this pre-k discussion being off track, actually) please make sure you are armed with facts before you attend the BOE meeting.

AvidReader-I am just on the phone with Ed Zilinski trying to get to the bottom of all this. Financial Details: the INCREASE in the school budget, will currently be aprox. 188.00 if the budget passes without full day, and around 215.00 with full day included. The school budget is around 48 percent of our taxes. Just wanted to make that clear.
Frankly, everyone is in a "damned if you do damned if you don't" position right now.
Just for the record, Ed Zilinski said the board HAS NOT made a decision on whether full day kindergarten should be added as a seperate vote- they will decide THIS COMING TUESDAY, in public, at the Board of Ed Meeting. This goes against what the Bloomfield School District website says, but appariently, this is the truth.
I have gotten my information about the pre-k program from mothers who are in it right now, and mothers who live in the district of the elementary schools right now. Perhaps they are lying to me.
Honestly, we are all in a very complicated position.
Be well.

avidreader is exactly right about the pre-k. my daughter was in it.

While this was the original and correct aim of pre-k, things have been fudged in recent years. the pre-k program needs to be cleaned up. pre-k should be offered to special needs children, only, and it should be in the 2 or 3 schools with the lowest test scores- however many classes are needed- be it 2, or 3.

Hey when my kids where in Kindergarden my wife stayed home from work and we had to suck it up and not go to disney land until we were able to afford the trip. Now its sounds like parents want to have thier cake and eat it too. Why should I as a Bloomfield tax payer, pay for your fullday daycare. This is what it sounds like to me parents now a days want the goverment and tax payers to do it all. Do as we did and many others did 20 years ago SUCK it up and take responsibility for your kids. So you cant take them to disney until they are 12 or so and SO what you cant drive a BMW your kids will be better off with a parent then in fullday kindergarden. I for one DO NOT want to pay for your fullday daycare.