Teens Accused in Montclair Sex Assault

Montclair makes the news again...

I saw a channel 4 news van in front of the municipal building and heard this story from the camera man.

Horrible story and I hope these guys get whatever the maximum punishment is.

reminiscent, yes. but nowhere in the source article does it say anything about the girl being handicapped, or attending special needs classes. Please tell me you aren't making that part up

One of the articles on the story said:

"The mental capacity of the girl was still being determined", for whatever that is worth.

I hope the girl is OK. And if these guys actually did this, lock em up for a very long time.

Apparently a loose definition of reminisent, jimmytown.

According to information given out at the press conference, there was mention of the victim?s diminished capacity, and she is being tested to determine he status. It was also mentioned that she was a student with a disability, but exactly what type was not disclosed.

charge them as adults....

If Walter van Tilburg Clark were still alive, he could write a version of "The Ox-Bow Incident" that takes place almost entirely over the Web.

Is there never any posting self-control over these issues?

cathar

I don't see a rush to vigilante justice in the posts above. I think you just like to reference Walter van Tillburg Clark. (Great book, by the way)

What can I say? You know how I feel about teenage boys. Let's leave it at that. My thoughts go out to the young woman and her family.

Spicoli, I respectfully disagree. At least in theory, too, these posters (who rarely seem to qualify their words) partly constitute the potential jury pool should the accused lads ever come to trial.

And try Clark's very long novel about growing up in Reno, someday, "The City of Trembling Leaves." There's more to the man than just that staple of h.s. English classes.

cathar,

You are correct. Please amend my comment (if only in your mind, since we cannot edit posts already made) to add the words "Should they be convicted" before my desire for maximum punishment.

Come the Rapture, Generically..., you are one liberal I shall surely plead be spared.

And I share your desire if they are tried and convicted. (As well as if they're guilty in the first place, which is a somewhat different matter.)

Everyone here: how is this different from our government officials' behavoir???

Hopefully Montclair will learn from Glen Ridge's mistakes and the town and citizens will not rally to support the accused while discrediting and blaming the victim.

It's not, gracie, it's not. Exactly the same.

gracie,

Certainly you are not trying to equate this assault with what Spitzer did, are you?

If so, I would say perhaps you should read both accounts again.

There are no similarities.

...gracie:

Last I checked, solicitation (whether high-priced call girls, ie: Vitter/Spitzer or trolling the men's room, ie: Craig) is defined legally as something quite different than sexual assualt.

I trust walleroo was trying to be ironic in his reply to gracie, and that he'll quickly affirm this.

Or are we the impaired public, assaulted by the "jock" politicians? Not a good time for that analogy.

Sad to say if the latest "broom stick" is true; I don't know, after you cry, after the rage, how do you deal with this? More than sad or even tragic.

Great! Reason #110 why you want to avoid this town. First we deport the criminals, then tear down that ugly tin can of a house! Look at that piece of shit! It should have been removed in the first place and maybe it would not have occurred! Think about it! Shit attracts shit!

Does Montclair have any standards? Let's enforce some codes and clean up this shit hole of a town! I plan to retire in 10 years and would like to be able to sell my house. At the rate we are going, this place will be another Irvington or East Orange!

Duh, as my teenager would say.

Hideous.

Problems in Paradise Folks!
Tonight while in an unnamed pizza joint , my child pointed out a normal looking kid and and said "you think he looks ok?? ...well he is a drug dealer at MHS.." and then added how many people smoke "blunts" right outside in the grassy area of the high school... adding that no one cares if you go to class either. People hang out there all the time.
Maybe it's time to hire new security at the High School and counselors for at risk kids in addition to the ones who pass along "college prep" information. Maybe if there were counselors who would seek kids out and whom they could relate too, since the parents obviously are either too busy surviving or absent, they might not sit at home on a school day performing the hideous acts of March 6.
Damn! the poor girl. grrr

Ms Loonie,

Take your pills and go to bed.

Your Doctor

Bewsie,

As someone who knows Montclair High very well, your evaluation of the situation is a hard one to swallow. First, in no way can you blame the high school for a few sick students. Second, students smoke cigarettes not illicit substances on Montclair High School. While the cigarette activity degrades the educational environment, is against the rules, and must be stopped, it is very different from cannabis smoking, which does not occur on campus. (And yes there is a drug problem at Montclair High School. Finally, yes the security and counselors must be improved. But it seems like you expect too much from a public school. Although we send a heft portion of our income to the school system, your standards are too high for a public school of 2,000 students. If you want counselors that personally connect with every students, send your kids to MKA. Montclair High has many problems but the manner in which you criticize it is certainly not constructive.

Why do people think a private school (MKA) is better equipped to handle out of control students? The counselors are no better than the public school counselors. The parents are just better advocates for their kids and MKA will do everything in it's power to keep problems out of the public eye. The kids have more money for more and better drugs/alcohol. The "grass" might be greener on the other side but not because the counselors are better.

On the premise of the story as presented, first and foremost is the finding out the why (in the case of a hoax, the same would apply). What caused these kids to lose their empathy that allowed them to commit such a heinous act? These things happen all over; sometimes it's just the longitude and latitude of an individual. You can't punish, condemn, change nor blame any system or person until you know why.
However, as Tom said, hideous, my best thoughts and sympathy are for the victim and family.

I can hardly waiting for the obligatory hand wringing about "what this says about our community."

It says nothing about Montclair. Zip. Nada. It's about a couple of obviously fked up kids. And their absentee parents. It's what's going on in 1000s of towns across America. Young kids being raised by an elderly grandparent because the parents are somewhere else. Not eactly breaking news that you can't raise good kids without having a parent or other responsible adult hanging over them 24/7 like a hawk.

I hope that the miscreants are tried, convicted and do serious jail time...my thoughts go out to the young woman.

Men are pigs...

I also know Montclair High well and I have raised two grandchildren as well as three children who went there. I am and have been an advocate for all of them. By and large the attempts to advocate for them have been met with indifference moving to irritation to outright hostility from a majority of those I have dealt with. A few stand out as truly concerned, but most of the administration and staff are just putting in their hours and can't wait to rush off.

What stands out in this particular case is that it took place during school hours. It is my experience that nobody makes sure that kids do not leave the building. I always likened Montclair High to swiss cheese.

As for the drugs on campus issue, don't make me laugh. Who checks to see if kids are high when then come back from lunch? Don't bother, the question is rhetorical.

My granddaughter has one more year of high school, but we are moving out of Montclair this spring. One reason is that we are just emotionally exhausted with trying to advocate for her here.

"I hope that the miscreants are tried, convicted and do serious jail time..."

Don't count on the serious time part. Not in Blue Jersey. Someone somewhere will come to their defense. saying how misunderstood they are, boys will be boys, blah-blha-blah, ad nauseum.

Those boys were not taught by their parents to respect women.

MM is right.

I'm sure we'll hear about how "the system let these boys down..."

And I think Mets2008 points out the similarity of this case with the Glen Ridge Case: unsupervised boys with no compassion. Rich or poor, doesn't matter.

It used to be said that boys raised by single moms had tremendous compassion for women. But when both parents are out of the picture (via working too much, jail or just gone), all bets are off.

One of the most interesting things about this story is how it has become, to some here, the school's fault. Forget about the fact that it took place a mile or so away from the school, and during a time when students were not required to be there due to a shortened schedule, it is still the school's fault. Not the parents who weren't there. Not the kids who witnessed it and did nothing to stop it. And certainly not the kids who did it. It is the school, and their uncaring counselors, teachers, and adminstrators.
And look at all of the proof we have! Soemone's child TOLD them that someone else was a drug dealer, and that the campus around the school is a veritable Altamont on a daily basis. Someone else did not get the "cooperation" they expected from school personnel. Quite an impressive case being built.
Meanwhile, the great majority of kids at Montclair High, and at virtually every high school, go about their business and try to lead good lives. They care about their families and friends, their grades, and their town and country. They don't rape anyone, deal drugs, beat down rivals or terrorize old folks.
When did Montclair High turn in to Bedlam, and how is it that so many continue to do so well there if it is indeed so out of control?

So after two generations, you're throwing in the towel in the final year, Cybergranny? That's not much of a denunciation. Where've you been for the past 20 years? And what would you have the h.s. administration do, lock kids in the building during school hours? And finally, exactly how do you propose checking kids to see if they're high? Should hall monitors administer blood tests?

As for MKA, it's a self selected group of kids of parents who can afford to pay the tuition. If Montclair High School started charging $20k a year to attend, its demographics would improve instantly.

cro's right on the money!!

"Detectives learned about the incident after the victim's girlfriend notified school counselors at Montclair High School the following day."

Sounds like the school did a terrible job...

And Mr. Roo,

Demographics does not insure good behavior. Supervision does.

I don't blame the school. The school is only as good--or bad--as the community it serves. I blame the parents. Why were these kids not in school? And not just one, but three of 'em? Were they chronic truants or was it just this one time? Those are important questions.

"Demographics does not insure good behavior. Supervision does."

Most new jacks that moved into town within the last 10 years seems to think so. Boy are they in for a suprise..

The problem is that this all falls into the lap of the school.

If the parents are MIA, vocational schools don't exist, same with reform schools, (and let's not dare begin to discuss the "culture" these kids grow up with) what's left?

The public schools.

They must now be social workers, kinda like Mr. Prez on The Wire.

You are correct, prof. Supervision is the sine qua non here. It is primary. Poor kids from broken families are only more likely to be poorly supervised. (Though I don't profess to know the facts in this case.) And you are correct, too, Miss M. No system can or should be expected to completely compensate for an abdication of parental responsibility. The buck stops at home.

Again you are spot on, prof. So what should be done, exactly?

Putting a large number of teenagers in a house, without any adult supervision, is a receipe for disaster. It doesn't matter if the kids are well-off or poor, and it certainly doesn't matter what color they are.
In this case, mention is made of the grandmother. She is apparently the primary caretaker of the older boy who is charged. Doubtless she is a nice woman who is trying to do the right thing, and to pick up the slack that was left by her son or daughter. But she is probably in over her head trying to keep tabs on an 18 year old. She may work, and it is said that she is a frequent churchgoer. So she's not there a lot of the time, and the stage is set for a tragedy.
I think folks need to take a hard look at priorities, and to start understanding that neglect can mean not supervising, just as much as it does not feeding or clothing, a child. I don't suggest that this woman be strung up, but I would like to know how she, and so many others like her, end up in these positions at their ages when their child raising days are supposed to be over. In the meantime, yes, schools are called upon to deal with these issues along with teaching history and algebra and all of the rest of it.
This is not Montclair's problem alone. It is a national disgrace.

"but I would like to know how she, and so many others like her, end up in these positions at their ages when their child raising days are supposed to be over."

You answer your own question earlier in your post, Cro. The parents are slackers, therefore, the child is being raised by a grandparent. The other option would have been foster care. It's an unfortunate situation nationwide.

It was really a rhetorical question, MM. Sadly, we all know the answer.

On the TV news last night, they mentioned that Romal Roberts' parents live in East (I think?) Orange and sent him to live with his grandmother to keep him away from gangs and to provide him with a better education. I'm not sure how accurate this little nugget is, but let's not boil the parents in oil just yet.

If that is true, spicoli, then the parents should be getting a tuition bill from Montclair. Unless, of course, they assigned custody to the grandmother.
How much would you like to bet that that didn't happen?

"If that is true, spicoli, then the parents should be getting a tuition bill from Montclair."

Quite a bit of truth here. Montclair shouldnt be in the business of subsidizing the education of other towns residents.

(jimmy, we already do subsidize the education of other town's residents. 20k per kid in Newark is not coming from local taxes...)

And at what point can we boil the parents in hot oil? C'mon, if this (as told) is not good enough what is? Murder?

I got the peanut oil (higher smoke point), if you've got the cauldron.....

Agreed on the "unauthorized student" points. Fraudulent enrollment in the Montclair schools is a topic that gets me pretty riled up. I have had new school enrollment notices sent to my address with names of students who never lived anywhere in the neighborhood, so I am pretty certain that it happens quite a bit.

The Montclair school enrollment forms list the following as an acceptable proof of residency:

"Child is Domiciled with Montclair Resident Other than Parent - Affidavit Form A executed by Montclair resident and Affidavit Form B executed by parent or guardian."

As long as the grandmother (a town resident) and parents filed the right paperwork, the student is entitled to attend the schools. And it does not say that the Resident must be the legal guardian. I don't necessarily agree that the bar is high enough here, but that is the districts current policy.

You'd need to see those forms. I suspect that a custody switch has to be made, otherwise I could send my child to my friend's house in Montclair. So could everyone else. If it was that easy, you'd have twice the number of students in MHS.
They have even pursued students "living" with a non-custodial parent.

Whether the assailant lived in East Orange or Montclair is irrelevant. A rapist is a rapist is a rapist. Your zip code wont change that.

While I do not blame MHS for this, I do believe the school needs to provide classes for its students, divided by gender, to talk about the consequences of sexual activity and assualt; same with drugs and alcohol.

Let's scare these kids; they need it, and probably in middle school.

The question of this kid's residency grew out of the discussion surrounding his parents' involvement, or lack of same, in his supervision. How you got the notion that a zip code makes a rapist, or doesn't, is beyond me.
Classes already deal with the subject of sexuality, as well as alcohol and drug abuse. These subjects are part of the NJ state core curriculum for health, and are taught at all schools. A significant number of parents opt out of these classes when the subject matter veers into areas they'd prefer to handle themselves.

Foodfreak,
I respectfully disagree with your comment that our "standards are too high for a public school of 2000 students." You may have a different philosophy, but high standards are a good thing. Are you suggesting that lower standards are better? If everyone felt as you did we would slowly slide into a liberal miasma of mediocrity and false pity - and certainly higher crime rates and lower real estate prices. We should set our standards very high. Believe or not, even kids who have a tough time staying in line will do better in such an environment.

Y.A. Duck,
What was that? "We can't punish and or blame a person until we know why they committed a heinous act?"
Really? So we shouldn't blame these guys if they are convicted of rape?
Is that what you're saying?

The latest news is that the alleged perp named Romal Roberts has pleaded not guilty. And now there is some question as to his immigration status.

News here at this link.

The news is all over the Montclair schools. I had the talk with my middle school daughter today when she brought this up about using common sense concerning what situations are safe and what aren't. This includes never going to someone's house when there are no adults present, letting your parents know where you want to go and ask permission first, and never being in any situation without close friends with you.

JohnH, are you suggesting that we treat everyone the same (perfectly sane and sober, drug or mentally impaired, insane)? Are you suggesting changes to the school when you don't know if there is any culpability? Maybe boil the parents/G-ma in oil when they did their best? All of them just in case?
What I said was find out the why, then punish, change or do whatever is needed, with reason. The speculation might be fun as presented in a general dark humor (which is not a bad thing), but when people without facts start to seriously condemn and call for change, it's nothing but a lynch mob.
I'm all for the max punishment, after the facts are all in.

Y.A. Duck,
Sorry - I didn't mean to imply that you don't want justice, and I was certainly not any part of the "lynch mob" postings. I thought that what your post said was that even if someone is convicted of holding someone in a house for 4 hours and raping them and violating them with a broomstick, that you would advocate finding out why they wanted to do that to another human being before considering how to punish them.
(As if something could excuse such behavior). I must have been mistaken.

I guess that's why we only have first degree murder when someone is killed. Whatever happened, somebody?s dead, right? Sure simplifies things.

Bewise,
I live in the neighborhood and am the mother of a student and a graduate. You're child says there are drug dealers and smokers on campus. Mine does too. I have witnessed students smoking marijuana during class hours. I've also called every authority from the mayor to the board to the local police concerning the lack of discipline and the freedom given to the students. As parents the primary responsibility for discipline rests on us but MHS needs to open up to change and address these issues. Living in the vicinity of the HS is not pretty sometimes it's downright scary.

I also live in close range of the school - I have students and teachers that smoke and leave their butts right by my house and other trash. My bf doesnt want me to walk to the YMCA to go excercise until I get pepper spray or whatever...I guess I can't blame him..