Flat Tire For Congestion Pricing

I find something strange (ironic?) about this whole thing. Here we have a large number of people squawking and beeping about global warming, the "greening of America," carbon footprints, and so forth but who are not willing to bite the bullet when it comes to automobile pollution caused by traffic congestion. To me, this seems like one of the easier things to fix (i.e., we can't really control the Earth's climate as much as we think we can. Hell, the weatherman can't even get the predictions right half the time). Less cars=less pollution. This really should be a no brainer. So what is it? Is it that people can't bear to part with their automobiles, share rides with other commuters or take mass transit?

Yes, I know I'm leaving out the people who MUST drive into the city for a living (i.e., delivery trucks). Perhaps a special concession can be made for them. But it burns me up when I see hundreds of passenger cars with no passengers.

MM, the problem was that Bloomberg left no room for negotiation regarding any of the details. It was well-intentioned but not well thought out. Time for Plan B.

MM hits the nail on the head for me.

I will add the irony of the plan being "violently opposed by Governor Corzine."

Didn't he want to raise tolls by 800% to save the state budget?

Whereas here, the toll raise was to save the planet.

Some liberal.

As the saying goes, "Follow the monkey..." Uh, I mean, "the money."

At least now DeCamp won't have to raise their prices again. Oh, wait a second...

Ladies and Gentlemen/DeCamp passengers, the inevitable is happening. Effective April 18, 2008, DeCamp fares will suffer a 6% fuel surcharge increase. There is no explanation that can possibly satisfy anyone, but the costs of oil appear to be uncontrollable, certainly by us at least. Time will only tell! Thank you for your continued understanding and patronage.

I'd rather follow THIS APE!

(But both monkey, ape and Corzine share one crucial feature: beards!!)

MM,

The reason this died (I hope) is because people realized Bloomberg's plan was only step 3 of the three steps needed to make congestion pricing anything other than a burden to the middle class / working poor without enacting the first two steps ahead of time.

1) Work out a deal between NYC and NJ Transit in advance that x% of the money generated from the congestion pricing and any federal grants rewarded to NYC for cutting down on their air pollution will go towards paying off step 2 and towards special EZ Passes for people like delivery drivers who have no option *but* to drive. reason: It's easier to get money from someone when it's agreed upon first than it is to try and sue for something you *thought* was due for your hard work (and it is going to be NJ taking all the hardship to earn NYC those grants).

2) Massive overhaul of NJ transit. Increase mass-transit options and efficiency, extend comprehensive bus/train routes beyond just Essex and Bergen Counties. reason: Morris County is one of the wealthiest in the country and commuting residents have almost no reliable options for taking mass-transit into Manhattan.

3) Initiate congestion pricing by drastically increasing the tolls past the mental breaking point, thus giving people the needed financial incentive to take the new mass transit options. reason: It's the boiled frog effect. If you put a frog in water and slowly raise the temperature; you're going to have some tasty boiled frog in no time. If you try to throw a frog into boiling-hot water; it'll jump out. We need to throw our commuting friends into some boiling-hot water as soon as that safety net of reliable options set up.

My question is whether any of the money that would have been raised by the increase would have gone towards improving public transportation? It never ceases to amaze me just how poor public transportation is. While it may be decent around Baristaville (although w all the DeCamp complaints, even that is questionable), many parts of the state do not have viable options outside of several train/bus transfers or high commuting costs. My point being, I don't think this increased toll would have resulted in a great switch from cars to public transport, but instead would have just added another burden on the average commuter. I don?t doubt that there are people out there who needlessly drive when they could easily take the train or the bus, but I?d wager a guess that those are also the people who could easily afford the increased toll. If they want people to stop using cars, they need to provide viable and reliable alternatives.

That you can successfully negotiate YouTube, profwilliams, is no guarantee that your "insights" will then be spot-on.

In the animal kingdom, for example, there is no such thing as a genuinely "bearded" critter, if only because it never occurs to animals to shave. Fur does not equate to a beard. Perhaps you're just not attached to the Department of Anthropology or Zoology wherever you play pedagogue?

I also wonder why you seem to be so outraged now that you won't have the privilege of paying an inflated toll rate to drive into Manhattan. You know, to regularly attend all those cultural events like the opera and NY Philharmonic concerts that you probably like so much. (Along witrh your brethren from the Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn, SI and so many other places who are similarly disappointed that congestion pricing didn't pass, of course.)

Duh, the full "reason" behind number two was supposed to include that a large number of those stinking-rich Morris County folk are high-powered Manhattan lawyers, investment bankers, etc who cannot take mass-transit even if they wanted to due to lack of reliable options.

Wasn't trying to say that we needed better mass-transit *because* of the wealthy people.

The last time I looked at New Jersey Transit's offerings, Generically named...., it seems that several of its lines actually go through Morris County. Or did you simply not realize that towns like Dover (a line terminus, in fact!), Bernardsville, MORRISTOWN, Chatham and Madison are in fact in Morris County?

cathar,

That you continue to be such a literalist makes me think you have no sense of humor.

But considering how often I chuckle at your posts, I know that's not true. What then?

Sadly, I fear it is to show all your "intelligence" like here-- really, apes and monkeys don't really have beards? I didn't realize. I thought they just needed a shave......

As for tolls, what outrage?

I don't really care either way about toll increases as I don't commute. And when I do travel: EZ pass and pay.

I do care about the hypocrisy of our bearded (or furry) Gov.

Agree with many of the points above (GNM and RaeVen). And I concur that both NJ and NYC need VAST improvements in their public transportaion systems. A big example is the NYC subway system. I'm a subway gal myself and with all its faults, I still think it's the best--and quickest-- way to get around. But there are a lot of inequities with the service. A few years ago, they put new cars on the #6 line. They're gorgeous (as far as subways go), with working PA systems, clearly-defined maps that light up, clean cars. They were supposed to replace a lot of the old cars on other lines, add trains to heavily trafficked ones (like the E line), add a 2nd Avenue subway line, but all of that never happened. At most stations, there is lots of garbage on the tracks, rusted infrastructures, leaky ceilings, etc. Meanwhile, the fares keep going up. Where is all the money going?

In New Jersey, yes, would could use more user-friendly public transportation. In many parts of the state, you are stuck if you don't have a car. I could go on and on about this but you get the point.

The bottom line is that if we're serious about this topic, we have to make public transportation more attractive--and available--to more people.

Yes, prof, I am in fact so much a literalist that I actually believed, once upon a now very distant time, that you were even a genuine academic of some kind. (Or anyway had been.)

Now, however, I get the joke. (See, I'm trying.) You're really just an ungrammatical boob who wishes he'd been an academic.

cathar,

I've not dedicated the time necessary to make a truly educated rebuttal to your post, but from my own experiences (first as a teen/college student living in Montville) and later as someone who lives in Montclair but works in Pine Brook I can relate these two quick tales.

In order to get to Manhattan from Montville (as of 2004 when I moved out of town), you have to drive either to the Boonton or Towaco train stations whose schedules pale compared to those of Montclair or to the hideous park & ride behind the Wendys on Rt 46 where the Lakeland Bus line runs every hour or so (much less on weekends and almost non-existent for late evening or nights). Neither of these options would provide sufficient coverage if even 1 of every 5 cars along those train / bus routes were to switch over to mass-transit.

To get to Pine Brook from Montclair requires a transfer and would have my work schedule being changed to reflect the need to arrive an hour earlier, an hour later, leave 2 hours earlier, or an hour later than I currently do (which is a pretty normal 9-5:30 schedule).

It's the boiled frog effect.

Frank GG -- recipe please!

cathar,

You right. Me not no no grammar. So why you be so mean today?

Me thought you a friend.

Or me thought you and me at least be friendly.

Oh, well.

I guess you won't be sharin' a Pike Place Roast with me.

Generically named...., why didn't you simply admit at the onset that geography isn't your strong suit? My point is simply that those investment bankers you mentioned are quite more likely to live in, say, Chatham and Madison and Bernardsville and Madison than Towaco, Montville or Boonton, so they are ably served by NJT. (Dover is far more diverse than any of those towns, and appropriately then is the busiest rail station of all up your former way.)

Which is not at all to put down others who live in those last-mentioned towns. Merely to note that NJT's current schedule is what it is. Also that they seem to be trying; the recent improvements in Mount Arlington, for example, indicate this. (As do those bruited-about plans to extend commuter service to a line running as far north as Sparta and/or Newton. Neither of which, by the way, much interests Mayor Bloomberg, whose focus is always and only NYC, NYC, NYC...., he clearly was not thinking regionally with his reveries re congestion pricing.)

The decline of the railroads is pre-NJT, dates back to the 50's-early 60's. There was even an Erie-Lackwawanna commuter line which ran right through downtown Passaic at the time, it both took business folk to Manhattan and allowed hundreds of kids to commute to several Catholic high schools in NY and upper NJ in the opposite direction. And it wasn't so much shortsightedness at the time then which killed rail commuting as it was greed by railroads, an overweening interest in getting into other areas of business. (This was also, however, at a time when nobody in politics thought at all of actually subsidizing commuter trains as a way of cutting down on auto traffic.) It is a long, dirty and sad story.

If you're interested, there's a very fine book from the 70's called "The Wreck Of The Penn Central" by two guys named Daughen and Binzen, about how a well-run, highly profitable commuter railroad (mainly) decided to get into real estate, and in the process totally derailed itself. There's a similar story to the Erie-Lackawanna, the Delaware & Western and the Atlantic Coast Line; elements of all these once-worthy operations survive, but in greatly reduced form, in NJT today.

Boonton and Towaco alike, too, both once had a more important role to play in the commuting world than they do at present, so I've read.

Me and thee, profwilliams, well, as they say in west Texas, we've "howdied but we ain't shook." That is probably for the best, no?

On the other hand, what is a Pike Place roast? If it's something great to eat, something even worth wearing my "JB's SmokeShack - John's Island, SC" t-shirt for, the handshake can be arranged. (Which is my way of offring somewhat of an apology if I was too abrupt and short above.)

Cathar,

You haven't been reading your NYTimes. So I guess you didn't get your free pass for a taste of Pike Place Roast from......... STARBUCKS* ......

(This was, of course my sly way to drop that I not only read the Times, I subscribe... And then I read Timeswatch.org for proper context.)

But it was worth it to find out that you, like me, love the sweet joy of smoked meat... I knew we had something in common, or than of course, Baristanet.

*I don't drink Starbucks. I'm a Dunkin' kinda fella.

I might appreciate Starbucks more if they weren't so ubiquitous. Remember that South Park episode where they keep tearing down stores on every block to replace them with Starbucks? They even tear down a Starbucks and replace it with another Starbucks!

The line of Beemers and Mercedes with Jersey plates and one passenger that stream past me at the 41st and 8th intersection every morning proves why the congestion pricing rate should have been $20 a day.
If people want to drive into a city no one should be driving into, let them do it and let them subsidize the drastic improvements needed on the mass transit infrastructure. This was a bold plan. Sadly Bloomberg underestimated his need to coddle the upstate lawmakers who were out to see it fail from the outset. It wasn't a perfect plan, but it was a start. Bold and creative plans needed! Bring on some more...

Prof, that you read the Times, that you subscribe and probably pay, this is not to your credit. But I thank you for Timeswatch, which I'd not visited before. I much prefer the Wall Street Journal myself. Especially for its features and cultural coverage.

I thought you were talking about something substantial, like roast pork or beef. But coffee? Anyway, I'm a QuickChek person, both for the sheer variety of coffees and the apparent free rein the stores give customers with flavors of non-dairy creamer.

Hi sorry for being late...we're still trying to get over the Moose & Squirrel Aspic recipe....since its not very nice to boil frogs, I think that if we boil soy burgers instead, cover them with pesto sauce and decorate them with dried cranberries for eyes and lemon peel strips for smiles, the dish would be more palatable and even frog-friendly....