Asking For Help = Soliciting?

Ack! I hate reading about bloated bureaucrats who are so intent in doing everything by the book that they overlook the human element involved. I hope people DID complain. This is wrong on so many levels.

Sad story above about the woman. And it also inconvenienced an entire train of other passengers. Perhaps, of course, there's more to this story than related above. In my experience with European trains and subways, however, conduct like that of the conductor as described is pretty common and meets with general approval. (Trust me on this one: you don't EVER want to try riding for free in Prague.)

Still, given how few times in my life I've ever seen "no soliciting" statutes enforced at American train and bus stations, this matter does sound quite silly and unnecessary.

You called?

Now, here is an situation where DeCamp has the advantage over NJ Transit. Many times a new passenger pressed for time finds themselves ready to board a DeCamp bus without a ticket without knowing about the no cash fare policy. When I've seen this happen, it's the driver who calls out to the passengers to ask if anyone has an extra ticket to sell. Ha!

From Lawyers.com:
Solicit

Definition - Transitive Verb
1 : to make petition to
2 : to ask, induce, advise, or command (a person) to do something and esp. to commit a crime
compare coerce importune
3 : to attempt to persuade (a person) to purchase something
4 : to attempt to bring about or obtain by soliciting a person
1 : to make solicitation
2 of a prostitute : to offer to have sexual relations with someone for money

Do they have No Panhandling signs on the trains?

I took the train to NYC this week for the first time in ages and two out of the three conductors I dealt with were very friendly and helpful, which seemed an improvement over the years when I was commuting daily. I guess some of them are still as surly as ever. They need to fire those types.

I've heard that LIRR, at least, plants one or two trick passengers on certain trains, without a ticket and with no money. The Conductors are supposed to reprimand the passenger and get them off at the next stop. If they don't, they get demerits. I don't know if NJTransit runs a similar program.

"The Conductors are supposed to reprimand the passenger and get them off at the next stop. If they don't, they get demerits."

Aha! This now explains why NJT is overshooting the Watchung station and opening the doors over the precipice.

I would hope the situation unraveled as it did to keep consistant with removing those riding without a ticket.
If they made an exception for that particular rider, why wouldn't they have to make an exception for all riders without a ticket?
When would they draw the line?
It is a situation that none of us would like to be in on either side.

Deb, this would have been a perfect vignette in "Fear & Yoga". Maybe we'll see it in the next novel?

So is the passenger who went up and down the aisles imploring other passengers to call NJIT to complain also guilty of "soliciting"?

"So is the passenger who went up and down the aisles imploring other passengers to call NJIT to complain also guilty of "soliciting"?"

That isn't soliciting, that is simply being annoying.

Good Lord! I can't believe she had to turn to other passengers in desperation. I have, on several occasions, witnessed this scenario and invariably one or more passengers volunteer to pay for a ticket for the unfortunate passenger.

I've never seen something escalate to this level in the 25 years I've been using NJT.

Technically yes, Pork Roll. It's still begs the question of NJT trains have signage prohibiting soliciting. The buses have such a sign but I always associated with proselytizing.

Forgot to add my post above, that people needing to break a five or ten dollar bill on the NJT buses are never stopped by the driver from asking other passengers for change.

"They held the train for over 30 min. waiting for the police to show up. In the meantime, she did find her ticket, but he wouldn't take it since she had been "soliciting."

Are you kidding me? I can only imagine what a show THAT must have been. I'm sure the conductor, especially when faced with a 30 min hold up, could have excercised a little healthy discretion, no?

I have to believe that either, a) the above recount is a tad exaggerated, or b) there is more to this story...

these kinds of problems would occur far less frequently if the conductors had the ability to take credit cards, which in todays wireless world is not out of the question.

Frankly, I find this rather amusing. There were several occasions in my 17 years of commutting on the Boonton Line when "friendly conductors" didn't bother to take my ticket. When it occurred, I thought it a bit cheesy but didn't insist on them taking the ticket so as not to embarrass them. Now at the other extreme we seem to have Gestapo conductors who don't have compassion or common sense.

I had a late class and caught that same train home last night. As a first hand witness, I must say that the conductor could not have handled the situation in a worse manner. For the most part, I find that the conductors that are on the baristaville line are very friendly. On many occasions, I have forgotten to purchase my monthly ticket for up to a few days and the conductor always lets me get by.
Discretion should be used when it comes to soliciting. Clearly this woman wasn't a homless person begging for money.
I am going to experiment on my train ride home tonight and try soliciting up and down the aisles until I get approached.

~EKB~

Dactylskeeper-

Good move. love to hear how that turns out

Dactyl, you saw the incident? Please tell us about it. How did the conductor handle it? We want the dirt!

Cathar said: "In my experience with European trains and subways, however, conduct like that of the conductor as described is pretty common and meets with general approval. (Trust me on this one: you don't EVER want to try riding for free in Prague.)"

Funnily enough this story reminded me of a train trip we took with our 3 kids from Venice to Florence last year. We'd bought the tickets from an online broker before leaving home, and they were invalid. The conductors told us to stay on the train to Florence, where we disembarked and 2 of them took us through the station to an ATM where we got the money and paid the fare--- we even tried to tip them for their kindness but they wouldn't take it, defying the stereotype of corrupt Italians. Viva Italia!

As to the Decamp drivers, I vividly recall one driver literally screaming at someone who asked to buy at ticket. Needless to say, he refused to let her on.

A letter is on it's way to NJ Transit (or will be shortly). This conductor needs to be made an example of. Anybody know this pathetic creature's badge number?

A letter is on it's way to NJ Transit (or will be shortly). This conductor needs to be made an example of. Anybody know this pathetic creature's badge number?

Wacourson-

So, you're going to write a leter to NJ Transit identifying and villifying a conductor based on an a story sent in by the wife of a witness, posted anonymously on a website?

Just make sure you've got your facts correct. If there are any.

"Anybody know this pathetic creature's badge number?"

Not sure, but I think he's hiding under Liz's porch.

I can't believe that people are defending this conductor.

Yes, people do occasionally forget/lose their tickets for the bus or train. At PA, you have to buy your ticket in advance before you board. Some people who don't take the bus regularly are not aware of this. A couple of times I given such people a ticket. I don't even care if they pay me or not. Someday, I may need a ticket/some spare change/a rope with which to hang myself, whatever. I believe in the karmic power of good deeds.

I'm not saying that the conductor should have let this women slide but to accuse of her "solicitation" is a little far-fetched in my opinion. For whatever reason, he was trying to make things difficult for her.

I'm feeling a Jerry Springer episode here..

MM, I applaud your effort to "pay it forward." Just the other day, I attempted to pay the $.70 toll for the person behind me on the GSP(I have always wanted to try this) and was rebuffed by the collector. I think the most ironic part was, during this no-more-than 10 sec. exchange, the driver behind me beeped in frustration.

Tangent.

Just last week, I purhcased a 1st class plane ticket for Naomi Campbell, who had left her charge cards at home. She was in front of my in line and seemed a little put out that they wouldn't waive the fare. Attempting to de-fuse the situation I paid her fare.

She showed no gratitude and the people at the ticket counter looked at me like I was some kind of 'weirdo'.

Anyway, it felt good to help out a fellow traveller in need.

Good for you, mellon. Wish more people would step up and help others.
A few years back, when I was living on the west coast, I noticed while driving home on the Pacific Coast Highway in Malibu one of my favourite movie stars -- Mr. Mel Gibson! He was involved in a heated conversation with a few police officers, at least one of whom was apparently a "%#$%* Jew"! I stepped in and offered my wervices as peacemaker, but wouldn't you know it -- my efforts were rebuffed by the police AND Mr. Gibson!
It just goes to show you -- you try to be a good guy and you get abuse!
Don't stop believen'!

Mellon Brush-

Next time call me and we will put her on a nicer plane
http://www.bluestarjets.com

I was thinking about this last night on the train ride home. I usually don't lose things but we all know it happens. If say I couldn't find my ticket yesterday, I wouldn't be able to buy one b/c I only had $5 on me. Again, another faux pas on my part. I know I should have more money on me but I hadn't had a chance to go to the ATM. It wasn't something that was on my mind. We all know this could happen to any of us responsible train riders. What would I have done? I don't even know. I don't know if I have the guts to "solicit" another passenger for money. I do know that I have been supporting NJ Transit for some years now and would feel pretty devasated if they just threw me off the train. How could they be so heartless. THen again, we all know by their actions that NJ transit is not interested in customer relations and customer retention. If that was the case, things would be different all around.

couldn't they have come back to her and given her a few minutes to "search" her purse/bags for her ticket, I mean come on, I have a monthly pass and out of the 5 days - at least 2 of the days, I get the "you're okay" but that is usually in the am. I am soooooo curious as to which conductor it is....

"I am soooooo curious as to which conductor it is...."

It's the one with the 150 lb gut.

the chick????

yeah, that one!

But the eyewitness refers to the conductor as a "he."

right, that's the one!!

I figured it had to be "Mr. Sunshine".

maybe baristanet should have a drawing contest of the njtransit conductors? :) NOW that would be fun!

Certainly could have been handled better, the soliciting issue is insane, but I do agree they have to enforce the ticket rule, whatever it may be. Different but same, a few years back a black man runs to a supermarket that had just closed and when he asked the security guard could he run in just to get one item, he was told no. A minute later a white woman did the exact same thing and was allowed to enter the supermarket. He sued and won or they settled out of court because the security guard said he thought the black guy was going to rob the supermarket.
You have to be consistent with policy and procedures or there is anarchy.

I didn't see ROC comment above. Given the history of his past posts, I bet he would have flogged the woman, and then sued her for delaying his return to his castle.