BOE Admits Mistakes In Renaissance School Asbestosgate

This whole situation is pathetic. It's 199... oh wait, 2008!

What jumps out at me is that Alvarez "was nowhere in sight". How does he explain that?

As I've been saying, Alvarez must be held accountable for his lack of leadership here.

But after- once again- missing a meeting on the subject, he must be fired.

Tell us Alvarez, what else is more pressing than this issue?

(Right, China. I forgot...)

So while D. Sullivan must also be held accountable, his absence and silence proves he is not up to the job.

I don't see why everyone's so mad at Alvarez and Dana Sullivan. I think its pretty unanimous they're doing a fantastic job. Don't believe me, just ask the BOE:

"In a related development, the Board of Education also voted unanimously to approve new one-year salary contracts for the district's senior administrative staff. The group includes Alvarez, Assistant Superintendent Terry Trigg-Scales, Personnel Administrator James Patterson and Business Administrator Dana Sullivan." - Montclair Times, May 9, 2008

I just hope the BOE doesn't try to make Dr. Cobb the fall guy here. I like what I know of him so far, it being only our first year at the school.

Questions I want answered:

Who is the BOE's attorney and where was he/she in all this?

Does the lease with the Diocese spell out who does what?

How could Dana Sullivan expect us to believe her when she says she didn't know they would have to remove the frames to replace the fire doors? For pete's sake, even I would assume that might be part of the job, and I'm no expert!

Did no one have a scope of work? Doesn't the scope have to be approved by the tenant before the landlord even walks in the door?

How is it that the work at Madonna hall was being done during school hours?

I would think our lease grants us exclusive use of Madonna Hall during school hours. If not, who negotiated the terms and why wasn't such a provision demanded at the time?

If Sullivan is supposed to be the project manager (believe she is also the PM for Woodman field and probably also the new school, heaven help us!) wouldn't all work have to be approved and cleared with her first?

How could Jaraczewski not have even known about Renaissance??! If the BOE knew that all schools must be inspected every 6 months and did so faithfully, why wouldn't they think Renaissance should be too? If they weren't getting a 6-month status report from the church, why didn't they demand it or add it to Jaraczewski's scope and charge the church back for it (going back now to the orignal lease terms)?

Some of these problems seem to me basic landlord/tenant issues. Where is our attorney!!?

Sounds like no one is watching over what goes on at Renaissance, and frankly I don't think it's Dr. Cobb's fault. He is charged with educating my child, not framing our fire doors and doing the BOE's job too.

Questions like these must be answered by the BOE immediately. I just hope the parents don't have to hire a laywer to get them.

Chalk me up as one of those mad parents last night. Still mad, not because I think my daughter's exposure was significant really, but because of the complete lack of accountability and because the answers we are getting just sound stupid.

Grrr!

Crap! I just saw Complainer's post - GAWD are we stuck with this bunch for another year? Hey attorney, can we boot them for gross negligence and poor performance? is there an out clause to these contracts?

GRRRRRRRR!

Bravo to these parents for finally being heard, and pushing this issue!
Alvarez and Sullivan have ignored any parent concern at Renn. for years.
After complaining a couple years ago, parents once again, had to research and locate money to install drinking fountains after finding the kids did NOT have cold and fresh drinking water, which was uncovered during a major spring heat wave. At that time we were "snow chain" called to spend our own money and bring in bottled water for days.
Unbelievable that Alvarez was not there last night... sadly speaks volumes of his support for Sullivan and Rennaisance. However, this was not a Sullivan "mistake" she has been asked for Environmental Health and Safety plans in the past... What is her training?
And on another scary note, since Detail had no knowledge of Renn., perhaps this means the water has not been tested for 10 years either, that should be the next step.

Kay, Dr. Cobb has some accountability here. He was the one who everyday watched our kids sitting in Madonna Hall in a dusty construction zone as they ate lunch. (We now know that they were exposed to asbestos there).

As the leader of the school he must have the smarts to realize that letting kids eat their lunch in a construction zone is not acceptable. He should have had a plan B. Dr. Cobb failed miserably on this one and it wasn't until parents recognized the dangers our kids faced there that he finally moved them and they ate lunch at their desks. That in my book is unforgivable.

At the meeting last night, as Annette reported: "Dr. Charles Cobb, Renaissance principal, described frustration over his seven years of tense relations and poor communication with Monsignor Shugrue at Immaculate Conception Church".

Again -- that excuse are not good enough. If his complaints weren't being heard he should have taken it higher level with the BOE, Town Manager and the Mayor -- but again, it didn't go any further than him waging a one man battle. Why???

I also want to know about the contractor who put in the doors.

They certainly have some culpability here as they must have been aware that asbestos was used in plaster in older buildings. (Anyone with an older home knows EVERY contractor is worried and identifies asbestos in homes.)

Here, the contractors had a responsibility to their clients and their workers.

Church Streeter, do we know that the kids were exposed to asbestos in Madonna Hall? According to Star Ledger article, testing came back negative.

http://njo.live.advance.net/news/ledger/essex/index.ssf?/base/news-5/1211431050318780.xml&coll=1

This is the same pattern the Woodman Field Neighbors Association saw with the Woodman "improvements". The desire to rubber stamp and ignore the details.

WFNA: Hmmm, so you have contaminated soil on the right side and the left side and in back of the fieldhouse, but you havent budgeted for remediation for the fieldhouse itself where you will be digging? Where will this money come from?

BOE: Just because the contaminated soil was found all around doesnt mean its in the middle!

Town to BOE: Here is 2.5 million for emergency soil remediation.

Nice writeup, Annette.

Cobb is ineffectual--complaining to the Monsignor just doesn't cut the mustard--but he was also left out of the loop. Sullivan, by contrast, is guilty of gross incompetence at best, and so is Alvarez by virtue of being her boss. Sullivan failed to tell Cobb or the Diocese of the asbestos, even after she was informed that construction would proceed on the doors. (The explanation she offered last night--that she didn't know the construction would involve disturbing the plaster, which contained asbestos--is laughable.) She belatedly called in the testers on Thursday and yet allowed kids to attend school on Friday morning.

Alvarez and Sullivan should be sacked.

Ian -- I don't known when Madonna Hall was tested -- here's what I do know. Construction crews removed Asbestos Tiles from Madonna Hall -- our kids ate lunch there for many months. As there was never any weekly testing of Madonna Hall during construction, who really knows what else our kids were breathing in.

Church streeter, my own poor understanding is that the asbestos was discovered above the ceiling tiles (perhaps the mastic?) and maybe someplace else (fuzzy memory now) but that the dust was caused by some other work (spackling? tiles? dunno.) I believe they said no work was done in Madonna Hall on anything that contained asbestos until after the kids were moved out sometime early March.

Which leads to another question: You do an asbestos search (because a parent called the EPA and complained...) and the consultant finds some and tells you. Maybe he calls you and says, it's here, here and here. Maybe you're actually on-site with him and he points it out. But he doesn't have a piece of paper to hand to you. What do you do? Wouldn't a prudent person call the landlord and say, Guess what, we have a verbal report that there's a problem!! Don't touch a stinking thing in that building til we say so! OR would you instead wait for the written report in order to send it to your landlord? WHY wait?

Not only that, but during the school closure it appears that results were obtained in only 6-8 hours. WHY would it take 6+ WEEKS for the BOE to receive a written report from the March test? Who are they trying to kid here?

I asked my DD this morning about the dustiness in Madonna hall and she said she didn't even notice anything. So, without having seen it myself, I have my kid saying it was no big deal on one hand, and parents making it sound like there were mountains of powder on the tables a'la Scarface on the other.

If it was a big pile of powder then Dr. Cobb, staffers, cafeteria workers, ANYone should have said something. If nothing was working maybe the staff should have notified the parents so we could make a scene. As it was I vaguely remember Cobb trying to set up a meeting with the Msgr. - obviously not successful. The impression I get, and this is opinion only and not based on any facts, is that the BOE seems to hang Dr. Cobb and the Renaissance kids out to dry.

OH and another thing, apparently the fire doors installed weren't the right ones - either no one consulted Cobb, or Sullivan didn't put the right ones in the spec - or the church just bought & installed whatever they felt like - but Cobb said last night that the fire doors apparently don't have the windows in them that he needs. Come to think of it, I don't ever remember seeing fire doors in either of my kids' schools that didn't have a window. Who's the brainiac who botched up that purchase order???

Roo, can you be on our legal dream team, and make sure you use the word 'laughable'. That was good and so appropriate.

can we impeach them?

i think it is time to consider terminations "for cause." Individuals should be held accountable for their gross negligence in allowing children to be exposed to toxic agents.

I only hope this is all covered by the BOE's liability coverage.

Alvarez wasn't there?

You gotta be kidding me.

The BOE needs to fire his ass...and Sullivan, too.

They are clueless.

"How is it that the work at Madonna hall was being done during school hours? "

The kids were NOT exposed to Asbestos in Madonna Hall.

They were out March 3

Ceiling work started March 10

as posted on the Watercooler by someone in the know!

"Dr. Charles Cobb, Renaissance principal, described frustration over his seven years of tense relations and poor communication with Monsignor Shugrue at Immaculate Conception Church."

I like this one. Dr. Cobb is frustrated that he can't communicate.

Dr. Cobb, there must be a class that you could take to help you to communicate!

Wouldn't a prudent person call the landlord

Yes! Immediately, and tell the principal, too.

You wouldn't want me on any legal dream team, kay, unless you're talking nightmares, but thanks for the thought.

Why isn't anyone pointing the finger at Jerry Citro, the assistant principal. In other schools, this is a typical administrative responsibility of the assistant principal: follow-up with contracts, oversight of the facility and everyday welfare of the students.

BOE Insider/Kay -- The construction was going on for months in that hall -- just because the removal of the asbestos tiles didn't happen 'til after the kids were munching their lunch at their desks -- there's no way of telling how the much of the on going construction disturbed the asbesto that was there, either in the ceiling tiles or the other place in the hall it was removed from.

The only reason any testing was done anywhere was because a few parents made big pains in the asses of themselves. As recently as Monday's meeting, Alvarez had the temerity to chastise these same parents for trying to "hijack" the discussion.

God forbid that should happen.

This BOE needs to go.

Where. Was. Alvarez?

Prof, I think he was out getting an honorary degree somewhere. Maybe I read that here yesterday?

Church, you have a very good point there. How can we ever know exactly what was done and when. Feeling a little bit sick now.

This entire thing is surreal. No one want to take responsibility. We pay Alvarez, like what, $205,000, and Sullivan another $150,000. We cough up $355,000 and they can't even make sure students are safe inside a building that they rent. They can't even tell parents the truth.I witnessed no moral outrage coming from BOE staff, it was like, shit happens. They hide what they can, and hope nobody finds out. What a hell of a way to run anything.

According to the MSU website, he got his honorary degree on Sunday.

Regardless, he's been suspiciously absent from this entire affair.

HE. MUST. GO.

When the BOE began leasing the building 10 years ago, did anyone there raise the issue of asbestos? Did anyone examine the building for it? Ask about it?

When we moved in to our house 10 years ago we hired someone to look for it, they found it, and its removal was part of the contract.

Everyone is rip mad about the current situation, but responsibility for this goes way back, I think, to the group who first selected Immaculate's building.

Those in leadership positions have failed the students, parents and the town. Cobb has been frustrated for 7 years trying to communicate with Shugrue? Gimme a break. What's wrong with Cobb that he wasn't able to sort that out? If he wasn't able to communicate then the matter should have been brought to the board's attention and resolved.

This is the time to address the question of whether the BOE should be appointed or voted on.

I followed that light in the sky tonight, thinking it might be a celebration. Little did I expect to come upon you lot with pitchforks and torches, a la YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN (or even old Frankenstein, come to think of it). It seems there will be blood, indeed.
I believe that Citro is a counselor, not an administrator. Otherwise, he probably could not be a coach -- and we all know that he is, cause he parks where he pleases. But this mess is not his fault.
The America I moved to had this thing called "presumption of innocence". Does anyone know where that went?

not defending Dr. Alverz not being there, but his father is gravely ill. Since everyone was wondering why he's missing in action,he could have been with his family.

or he could have been at an Elks Lodge meeting or shopping at Costco.

If his father was gravely ill and that was it they would have announced that it was personal of family business and could have cut all the speculation.

The fact that they said nothing means that the BOE felt that parents did not have a right to know and that the BOE would face them with whoever they pleased!

cro, the America you moved to has a "presumption of innocence" in a criminal/legal setting.

But, since this is just a job and not a criminal investigation (yet), any "presumption of innocence" is a matter of kindness, not law.

Here, I offer no kindness to an ineffectual leader.

What I have is a presumption of incompetence that unfortunately has turned into fact.

HE. MUST. GO.

"Stephen Jaraczewski, manager of the environmental safety plan for the school district, disclosed that he never even knew the Renaissance School existed. Jaraczewski then told the crowd last night the Archdiocese is in violation of state safety requirements and is under criminal investigation by the EPA. "

Jaraczewski claims that he never knew that the school existed.

Then he claims to know what the Archdiocese has or hasn't done for the last ten years.

There's something wrong with this guy. He's the PRESIDENT of Detail Associates -- who is paid to enforced the district's asbestos management plan at all of the Montclair Schools.

The BOE is responsible for this and yet the PRESIDENT of the company that they've hired doesn't know enought to enforce the district's abestos plan.

Where's their contract- it should list all of the schools- it should be in the public record.

How much is the BOE paying this idiots company and WHAT HAVE THEY BEEN DOING?

They have demolished The Washington Street YMCA. This landmark was WAY more important than the Marlboro Inn as an American historical site.

Legal, schmeagle prof. The tone in this country has become overwhelmingly angry and accusatory. No one makes mistakes, they are guilty of malfeasance on a grand scale. No one is simply wrong, they are malevolent and scheming. No corrective measures are warranted -- everyone must go, and go now. No excuses. No mitigating factors. Get out now.
It seems that there was indeed incompetence in this case, and it may very well be that Alvarez will pay the prioe. But the howling for blood on this site in this instance, and in so many others over the past months, speaks to a tenor that is NOT what America used to be. It is more like Paris circa 1790, without the guillotine. But if there was one in Watchung Plaza I'm sure we'd see Alvarez's and Sullivan's heads being gleefully displayed to the cheering crowd.
This ugliness has nothing to do with legality -- it has to do with respectful and productive civic discourse, something which has gone away from this country and, from the looks of things, is not coming back.

If you read the posts here youwould know that there has been NO respect for Montclair parents by the appointed BOE. Parents are not viewed as customers by the BOE they are viewed as hindrances and are told to go away in no uncertain terms.

cro, take a breath.

I want this guy to simply speak. He has been absent from several meetings with staff and parents.

I ask a simple question: where is he?

To conflate this with your spew (Paris 1790? C'mon...) is missing the point.

HE is the Super. HE needs to be in front of this.

Sadly, HE is not.

I don't want blood. I want a leader who is accountable.

Please don't confuse the two.

HE. MUST. GO.

(Unless of course, he is you...)

No, cromagnon, no malevolence. Just gross incompetence. Do you see any "mitigating factors" in this case? If so, please tell us what they are. We're all ears!

Had you had been at the BOE meeting the other night, you would have seen something very different from an angry mob. You would have seen a pretty sharp and by and large calm bunch of parents, taking precious time away from their families to try and understand exactly how far wrong the people in charge of the welfare of our children went.

But of course you weren't there, were you? No, it's more characteristic of you to sit home and bloviate.

prof, my "spew" is on point. You don't see it, but so what? It really isn't "for" you. My post earlier in this thread asks the same question -- how can Alvarez justify not being at the meeting. It is confounding to me how he could be absent, if only to defend himself. But I am willing to suspend judgment, something most others here are NOT willing to to do, until all of the facts are in. That is the way things are supposed to work -- facts are accumulated and THEN a judgment is made.
Wally, you are truly a jerk here. I wasn't at the meeting, but I have been to enough of these sorts of meetings over the years, and have read accounts of them (including accounts of this one) to know that "calm" is NOT the atmosphere in evidence. For you to accuse me of bloviating is rich. Look in the mirror.
How fitting that my post regarding a lack of civil discourse results in a couple of posts exhibiting the very same features I pointed to.
I rest my case -- you two can join the others on the hunt for scalps.

Funny cro, you are the one who seemed to take this "to another level" with your cries of "presumption of innocence" and "Paris 1790."

Many here are simply asking questions and exchanging information. That our dear, bearded wonder has been MIA is an issue.

One that taxpayers rightfully question.

(And must you always go to the personal attacks here? Disagree with Wally, but you don't have to call him names.)

No personal attack, prof. Wally told me it was "characteristic" of me to "bloviate". Guess I see THAT as personal. I'm sure you would not. He acted like a jerk in stating that. He is not, in my mind, a jerk -- but he, like all of us (some more than others, eh prof) is quite capable of acting like one from time to time.
But good of you to defend him. Will you throw your coat over a puddle for him, as you once told me I did for perlstein?
You make a cute couple, I will say.

Enough. Enough.

The thread has produced many important questions that need to be answered. Make a master list of those questions and formally submit them to Alvarez and the BOE with a request for complete and public anwers. If all we do is post notes of frustration and irritation we accomplish nothing.

Put it all on paper; they'll have to respond.

Still waiting for the mitigating circumstances, cro. Give me that list and I'll apologize.

cro, we'll have to disagree.

Saying someone "bloviates" is not equal to calling them a "jerk."

And while you may see it as defending dear Wally, I was (again) calling out your propensity to level personal attacks.

But I do love that my perlstein comment is still under your skin!

So yes, Wally and I are lovers!!

I am a Furry Lover!

Blech!

C'mon Roo-bee...

Please say u luv me 2?

(***the prof twinks his bedroom eyes***)

"Please baby, please baby, please baby, baby baby please!"

No! You'll never be my stud puppet.

Roo may be cute and fuzzy but Muppet he ain't!

Hey here's a thought! Is it too late for you to run for office on an Out with Asbestos Slate? Forget Mayor, since we got Jerry now, what about taking over for Lautenberg?

Stud Muffin?

Wally, you don't have to apologize to anyone. Go right ahead and say what you please. As for mitigating circumstances, I don't know if there are any. Neither do you. That is the point. the facts are not all in and yet the judgment has been made. It is all right here for anyone to see.
prof, the idea that anything you say gets "under my skin" is, as has been said, laughable. But I do have a good eye for hypocrisy, and see it so often from one like you who calls other posters offerings "spew" and the like, called another poster a "jerk-off" a few days ago, and generally adopts a snarky persona that fairly screams "Bitch". So you feel that I get personal -- OK. Who cares? If I were you (Ugh! There's a scary thought!) I'd clean my own house before venturing to opine about others.

Ah, the jerk-off who tried to "out" me?

He was.

But that was after a long line of posts. Whereas you seem to go right to the attacks. See the diff?

And if you choose to read into my posts as screaming anything, don't. I write what I mean.

That I refrain from personal attacks (except when jerk-offs try to "out" folks for no good reason) it's because I do not write anything here that I would not say to your face as I imagine us all sitting around, having a cup of coffee- talking.

So then, I cannot imagine you calling my boo-Roo, a jerk in a conversation.

But maybe you would.

Not from Montclair. Don't know all the details of the situation. But if my Superindendent was not at that meeting (unless he had an amazing conflict), I would want his head. The meeting was clearly important and no self respecting super should have missed it (IMHO).

One symptom of bloviation, cro, is to speak without any regard to facts, but rather to expound on the basis of grand generalities and preconceptions. Lest I fall into the same trap, let me be specific: In your world, Montclair taxpayers and parents are angry not because the school district abrogated its responsibility for the safety of the kids, but because of some theoretical notion of a decline in American civility.

You can't name any mitigating factors in this case because a) you're ignorant of the situation and b) there aren't any.

However, in the interests of civility, I do apologize for saying that bloviation characterizes your posts. That was gratuitous.

prof, there is nothing that I say here that I wouldn't say to someone's face. Nothing. Your posts scream "Bitch" in that you write, well, like one. Like a snarky creep who is in love with the sound of his own voice and is convinced that he is smarter than everyone else in the room. When of course, the evidence points in an entirely different direction.
Personal enough for you?
As for bloviating, wally, I would suggest that one definition would center on a tendency to impute to others motives or beliefs, despite the impossibility, of course, of knowing those. Hence, your "characteristic" remark. Or your generalities nonsense. My opinion is just that-- an opinion. No better or worse than anyone else's here. Montclair taxpayers are not angry BECAUSE of the lack of civility, but they express their anger in that matter. Noting the lack of civility is certainly not original to me -- it has been remarked upon and discussed by many, in many forums including this one.
As for the mitigating factors again, you don't know if there are any. Yet you pontificate as if you do. I would call that bloviaiting. Among other things.
And there is little point in apologizing if it is not sincere, wally. I sense that your is not. If I'm wrong, chalk it up to some theoretical notion.

cro,

Reading your post, I'm embarrassed for you.

The anonymous tough guy role is unbecoming.

Where'd the love go?

(Go ahead, write another mean-spirited personal attack... But remember this: I STILL love your ass. Really. Love.... Not like Mr. Roo mind you, but LOVE nonetheless-- meaning I would drop my overcoat across a puddle for you.)

prof, no need to be embarrassed for me. No need at all. You have repeatedly demonstrated that you are beyond embarrassment.
As for tough guy, well, where is that? You posited that I said things here I wouldn't say to someone's face. I said not so. And you think that's being a tough guy? Jesus, you are a bit of a wuss, aren't you?
And the love? Its still right here. All for you. But it is the love that dare not speak its name.

(Sad, cro. Just plain sad. Unfortunately, you are the person I thought you were-- as you pointedly revealed yourself-- no sense of humor, fun or community. Just a gruff and crude anonymous poster. Enjoy your evening.)

Wow dude.

"...I would want his head."

His head would look nice in my fridge.

Oh dear. The prof thinks I'm not funny, and that I have no sense of fun OR of community.
I hope Saunders is still open so I can get a length of rope and a folding chair that I can kick out easily.
My dad told me many years ago that a person can take solace when eejits dislike him/her. I take great pride in the fact that you have placed me outside your fold.
Of course, I know that you are the person I thought you were as well. I don't need anymore persons like that in my life, thanks. But I look forward to deflating your pomposity from time to time.
Now, enjoy the weekend, won't you?

Wow, this has really gotten off topic since I last checked. On the off chance anyone is still interested in the original issue, minutes of the PTA meeting and copies of the environmental reports are available at renaissancepta.org