Magnet Madness

Can anyone tell me what how the procedure allegedly works? How do they decide? What is the actual process?

Can anyone tell me what how the procedure allegedly works? How do they decide? What is the actual process?

Can anyone tell me what how the procedure allegedly works? How do they decide? What is the actual process?

The Vice-President of Assignments (VP of Ass for short) sits in his big (asbestos free) office, making $175,000 a year, gathering all the applications.

He then works to screw as many folks as he can by assigning last choices first.

He then laughs a big hearty laugh, knowing that he has just ruined the lives of young Montclair children (or so their parents think...)

Seriously though, looking over the colleges our MHS grads are going to, this seems like a minor matter.

(Did I say we got our first choice?)

The most amusing part of the school selection process is the parental perception of differences between the elementary schools. I have seen people act as if the difference between Watchung and Nishuane is akin the separation between Harvard and DeVry Tech. Much ado about nothing.

If they assign kids to their neighborhood schools, they resegregate the town. Recent arrivals to Montclair may not be aware of the court case, Rice vs. Board of Education, that started the process that led to magnet schools and bussing.

School assignments are meant to keep each class balanced by race, gender, and walk vs. bus. It is not a perfect system, complicated by other factors such as siblings of current students getting priority at their school. Another factor is how many spots are open--they can't take in 3 classes of kindergarten if only 2 classes of fifth graders graduated. So sometimes you'll have 10 open spots at a school that 40 open spots the year before (or after).

I think my experience was fairly typical: one child got our last-choice school, the other got our first-choice school. Luck of the draw. And generally it works out fine, as hard as it is to hear that when you didn't get what you wanted!

Spicoli,

In a town where folks believe that there are two towns- one tagged "Upper" - are you surprised that parents pump up their favorite elementary school while denigrating the others?

And still, there's another bunch of parents laughing at the Watchung parents because their kids go to MKA. Or Lacordaire, or Kent, or Newark Academy.

Or who knows where.

Keep in mind that kids with older siblings are automatically assigned to a school, so realistically they are not participating in this process, but technically they are counted. In my experience these auto-assigned cases are more than 50%, but I am sure it varies a bit over the years.

Another factor for school assignments seems to be the concrete ethnic mix in each school/class as, so I was told, there is this court order obligating the BOE to ensure non-segregated schools and classes.

I am pretty sure the choices the parents make have some influence eventually but the above two criteria seem to take precedence.

Alas, I can only stress that you can always move your kid via a Freedom-Of-Choice application later on.

Happy to say we got our first choice....

but, it would have been a shock if we didn't , as we picked Nishuane!

When I asked a local mom if she was sending her son to Nishuane, she said, I don't know, it was our 5th choice. She gave me a look of pity, and asked me why I would consider it a first choice for my daughter?

I guess I clueless in this whole process!

Happy to say we got our first choice....

but, it would have been a shock if we didn't , as we picked Nishuane!

When I asked a local mom if she was sending her son to Nishuane, she said, I don't know, it was our 5th choice. She gave me a look of pity, and asked me why I would consider it a first choice for my daughter?

I guess I am clueless in this whole process!

Mom, don't regret your choice - people who snub something other than their own view of the "best school" don't deserve an explanation.

We had 2 kids go thru Nishuane and loved it both times. Meantime I have a friend whose kid was put there as 5th choice, and she moved him out a year later - then moved him to Hillside 2 years later because she wasn't happy with her first choice after all!

If you select "Reform School" you will most likely get your choice.

profwilliams said - (Did I say we got our first choice?)

On another thread, didn't he mention that his spouse is a teacher in the Montclair school system?

Hmmm.

Nishuane was our first choice for our eldest child 6 years ago. Having just seen my second child graduate from Nishuane this year I still believe it was the right choice. No experience is perfect but Nishuane has some excellent teachers. If your child is at all inclined to the arts Nishuane, folowed by Hillside have great programs in Dance, Gymnastics and all the related arts. Nishuane also while large, really focuses on the younger child to the extent that the other elementary schools can't. You will not be sending your 5 year old off to a place where the prinicipal is busy contending with the issues of older children. Give it a try with an open mind and you should pleasantly surprised

I also mentioned that we live in "Upper" Montclair and have been known to throw money around to get what we want.....

That said, I hope we got some special consideration.

I know it helped with a parking ticket I had.....

Having had 4 children go through the Montclair school system in various elementary school, I can attest that it's totally irrelevant which one they go to. They all get the same education, make great friends, go on to middle & high school and have a wonderful school career here.

Parents need to lighten up just a tad about these things & see the bigger picture.

The assignment system creates some amusing situations. Last year I met a Montclair family with a father of Northern African origin and an American mother. They thought it was funny that they were able to classify their blond haired son as African American, and are convinced that this is how they got their first choice of school. I don't know how heavily race plays into the selection algorithm, so who is to say.

On another note, it is possible to change your school assignment. This involves meeting with Bruce Dabney and making a case for why your child should be moved to a different school. We did this prior to my child entering Kindergarten and were reassigned. (Hint: It has nothing to do with whether or not you like the school that you are assigned to.)

Spicoli,

I had a friend from "Northern" Africa who also called herself "African-American."

Which is why I hate the term, never use it and am pleased that many "Black" Americans are realizing that it does not speak to our experience.

As it relates to school choice, folks who don't get their first choice will always find some reason, race unfortunately is all to easy.

(But like college admissions, no one seems to mind the "legacy" --siblings-- assignments.)

Spicoli...sounds like you are describing my family. If so, you have your facts incorrect. I had asked the officials at the school what I should put if my husband was from North Africa and I was white American. Their answer to me was...Check all that apply! They also told me that asking the race was NOT for placement but to have on record. Who knows if that is really the case!?!? I also know many other families with mixed kids and each had trouble filling out that part of the form.
As it turns out...our first choice wasn't so great anyway.

A friend of mine wants her son to attend Watchung instead of Hillside. The reason being, according to her, Watchung's focus on the sciences as opposed to Hillside's focus on the performing arts.

For those 26 of you who responded to the poll saying you got your first choice, what was it?

Remember, the schools can "focus" on what they want- they still must follow the State curriculum.

It's not like Hillside kids are just dancing, painting and acting. Or that the Watchung kids have assigned lab coats.

(But don't tell this to the parents. It's important that we keep them going crazy over this-- it helps create the illusion of specialness that we all crave!)

mom in town - not sure if you are the same person who I met. The son would be going into 3rd grade next school year. Apologies if I mischaracterized anything.

Regardless of how the school assignment process works, the elementary schools in Montclair are very similar to each other and there is no material difference in the quality of the education from one school to the next. Happiness with a child's education is more closely tied to a particular teacher than the school.

1st choice: Edgemontessori. As close to what I would be doing at home if I thought home schooling was a good idea (I don't).

Git2itGal,

ALL home-schooling is bad?

Perhaps not for you, but for others it is a choice.

So while your choice might be otherwise, it is probably best to be respectful of the choices others make.

(And re-reading your post, it doesn't make sense, Edgemont is as close to home-schooling, yet you don't like the idea of home-schooling? Or is it as long as someone else is doing the educating.....)

I don't have a right to judge decisions made by other people regarding their children but, in general, it's my personal view that public education is an important democratizing influence, that people's separatist instincts ought to be resisted, that energy spent perfecting the home-educational experience of one's own children might better be spent improving the collective educational experiences of the community's children, and that I don't have enough of the combined gifts and skills it would take to educate my own better than the professionals.

Home schoolers still pay taxes, right?

I'd say they contribute plenty to the "collective" good.

Moreover, tell me how home-schooling lessens the "democratizing influence"?

And what of private school?

I didn't realize that public schools were they only path to a democracy. (And what if you live in the central ward of Newark? I'd say our democracy has failed you.)

The lack of daily peer interaction is what concerns me about home-schooling.

banana,

It's not like the kids are not allowed to leave their homes.

Like most, they have neighborhood friends, join sport teams, scouts, etc.

It's just their primary education is done at home.

And considering some schools, teachers and other kids, for many this is a viable choice.

Unless of course, you're anti-choice.

Jeepers. Do you teach hyperbole in your classes? There was no "only" in my comment above. I actually know better than to engage, but in spite of that, here goes:

Paying taxes clearly produces a tangible result, but participation and self-interest are also important assets citizens can and do contribute to their communities. If we drink the water, we tend to protect the water. If we use the schools, we tend to advocate for the schools. Seems pretty simple.

Home-schoolers withdraw themselves and their children from this relationship and, while it would be presumptuous to assume that no home-schooling families do participate in activities intended to improve the public schools, it's reasonable to guess that this activity becomes a lesser priority than it would be, were the family's stake greater. People with no children also can help improve the schools, but I'd say there's nothing like an end-user to assert the degree of urgency and specificity that leads to concrete and timely action.

Furthermore, I do believe it is commonly understood that the influence of association with a relatively arbitrary cohort of classmates, rather than a more selective neighborhood, family circle, or house of worship demographic, broadens the experience, which in my view creates the promise of a democratizing effect.

What of private school? Some the same and some different from both public school and home-schooling. More selective, but not entirely subject to parental discretion. Some ability to exert communal influence, but assumes parents subscribe generally to the school's mission and ethos. So, what's the point?

I'm not seeking to outlaw anything, nor do I think I am guilty of even remotely seeming to have "run down" non-public-school options; I merely said home-schooling was "not for me."

I'd agree that some of Newark's public schools do represent a failure of democracy, but don't see how it's related to my views.

Keep in mind that Nishuane is a much bigger school than all the others. So if you don't get your first choice, you'll likely get Nishuane, no matter how far down or up you rank it.

That's what happened to us two years ago, and I haven't had reason to complain.

I listed Watchung first because I like the emphasis on math, it was nearby, and I was impressed by the principal.

But Itty Bitty Mitty loved her kindergarten teacher, she made good friends, she loves learning. Her class size was smaller than that of any of her friends at other schools; there were four adults in a class of 20 kids.

Something else that make Nishuane special is that there are no big kids; it only goes up to second grade. For some, that is a great comfort.

And starting tomorrow, we'll have the principal that impressed me at Watchung.

Good luck to all parents starting out from someone who has but an 18 month head start. May you kids be happy, no matter where they end up.

Sure, if their extracurricular activity makes up for their social isolation during the school day, fine.

It is in the hands of the parents to ensure that parents are giving their children AMPLE opportunity to bond with their peers during off-school time.

Git2itGal,

Unlike a conversation, we have a record of what you wrote:

"As close to what I would be doing at home if I thought home schooling was a good idea (I don't)."

Further, you explained your problems with home-schooling in general.

Taken together, it is clear your comments were NOT about your personal choice, rather a blanket assessment of anyone who might believe that home-schooling is best for their kids.

That you now realize your generalization was in err is good.

So regardless of what I teach, what I hope for is that folks can be respectful of the choices others make.

Even home-schoolers.

(And really, why are some here so concerned with how a parent chooses to raise their kids? There is no "right" way to do it. How many kids around here- with everything handed to them, still end up in trouble?)

We picked Nishuane as our first choice and my son had a fabulous 3 years - so much so that he said he would never leave Nishuane. Alas we moved away before he got to Hillside (the school Nishuane feeds) and I have only heard that Hillside is even better.... in fact I've known many parents who shun Nishuan, only to try and get their kids into Hillside for 3rd grade!!! Oh and I have also met Watchung parents who were not happy there at all.

I got my first choice: Edgemont School. That was ten years and three kids ago. If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have worried at all about which of the elementary schools they got into. By the time my kids reached middle school, all their close friends had done just as well at Rand, Hillside, Bradford and Watchung. Even kids from the co-op were on par.

"your generalization was in err"
tee hee.

What is Rand like? I know the principal was removed a year ago, by parents, but know little about the story or the school itself. Information?

I got my third choice. The main reason I wanted my first choice (Bradford), was that there are several children in our neighborhood who already go there, and they are the only kids my daughter knows going into the school system. They will all walk to school (I can see Bradford from my front door) and my daughter will get on a bus. Frustrating.

We also got our third choice - Nishuane. But as it turns out, our child will know a lot of kids there - though who knows if any will be in his class!! We're pretty excited about having all the choices, though not so excited about the huge school and distance from our house.

Wow, I didn't realize that there is still so much worry and concern over school choice selection. The hype continues to work. Little does anyone know, all of the schools are basically the same. Sorry folks, here how it was designed. Create educational different concepts for each school, make parents believe that there is a major focus on that concept, then convince parents that their child will somehow be harmed if they are not a part of this educational oasis, and walla,,,,, you create a frenzy about choice of schools. Folks, it was a gimmick to get parents to send their kids to a school, which may be farther away from the neighborhood, and in the end help with the integration of the town. Not a bad marketing strategy, and it continues to work. But in order to work, parents must believe that somehow one school is better than another. Truth be told, they are pretty much the same, and the state core curriculum standards are the same in each school. Math, reading, science and social studies are the same for each building, and all schools follow the same curriculum; same books. Lighten up, everyone?s kids will do fine, regardless of the school selected. If we take the time to analyze this experiment, we will realize that since all kids end up at MHS, it would be a catastrophe if their pre high education were vastly different. Relax parents, and enjoy the summer, September gets here all too fast.

don't they all end up at the same highschool anyway?

I agree with lone ranger. I think it is a terrible misperception that the BOE promotes, i.e. that parents get to tour all the schools and and actually "choose" the one that is best for their child. It is a marketing gimmick. Why have people tour the schools and rank them in order of preference when so many people do not get their first, second or third choice? Your child's education depends primarily on the quality of his or her teacher, and there are good teachers and less than talented teachers in every single school. Unfortunately, tenure keeps the incompetent ones around. When a principal isn't happy with the performance of one teacher, or when a lot of parents complain to the BOE, that teacher simply gets transferred to another Montclair school and becomes someone else's problem. Parents at Northeast and Bradford know what I am talking about. As a teacher, I have become so disillusioned with this whole process.

The schools have to be integrated. The neighborhoods are pretty much segregated. Bottom line, "magnet schools" is a clever marketing gimmick to sell the busing that is necessary to achieve integration of the elementary schools. The kids will all do fine wherever they go.

(I'm sure all the education professionals and parents who worked long and hard to create a system that has kept our school integrated- to the envy of many - don't consider our Magnet system a "clever marketing gimmick.")

I would suggest THIS for a good understanding of our history.

Dear Montclair Teacher,
Please don't lose hope, we need folks like you desperately! Politics and cynicism are alive and well just about everywhere, unfortunately. At my company we have workers who are really charged up and eager to make a difference, right alongside those who are doing little else besides counting the days til they can retire.

Keep the faith! Parents really do appreciate teachers like you.

Dear Montclair Teacher,
Please don't lose hope, we need folks like you desperately! Politics and cynicism are alive and well just about everywhere, unfortunately. At my company we have workers who are really charged up and eager to make a difference, right alongside those who are doing little else besides counting the days til they can retire.

Keep the faith! Parents really do appreciate teachers like you.

I'm not saying the integration is bad; in fact, that is why many of us moved to Montclair in the first place, and we celebrate our integrated schools. What I'm saying is that the BOE should not imply that you get to choose your school, when we know they choose it for you based on keeping a healthy mix. Just be up front about it instead of putting up a charade.

I'm not saying the integration is bad; in fact, that is why many of us moved to Montclair in the first place, and we celebrate our integrated schools. What I'm saying is that the BOE should not imply that you get to choose your school, when we know they choose it for you based on keeping a healthy mix. Just be up front about it instead of putting up a charade.

I would hope that the schools are doing nothing of the kind, montclair teacher, not only because it's retarded (to use the immortal words of Cheese) but also because the Supreme Court ruled recently that race must not be taken into consideration in assigning schools. Do you have direct knowledge that this is in fact what happens? If so, please share!

The tenure system is totally corrosive, and must go. I'm gratified that you as a teacher are candid enough to say so. Do you voice this opinion publicly and not just anonymously? Just wondering.

The problem is that schools are unable to figure out what to do with bad teachers, but damning the tenure system is not the answer.

I'll spare the history of tenure, and what might happen it it's gone, but I will say that schools must be able to do something with bad teachers, tenure does not prohibit this.

One thing overlooked on this thread: the magnet system gives our children the opportunity to really get to know their town. By traveling the entire length of Montclair twice a day, my kids can now recite by heart every cross street between Lorraine and Cedar Ave. I'm hoping this knowledge will help them down the road when they are out of school and working in the real world--perhaps as pizza deliverers.

Walleroo, montclair teacher is correct. The district's own website says it is trying to keep a racial balance across the schools, which is why you may not get your first choice or be able to freedom of choice your child to another school. It's right there in the FAQs under the magnet system heading.

The goal can be racial integration, but they can't select any one kid because of his or her race. Appletony, who has represented me many times to the Supreme Court, can verify this.

Ouch! I see we've hit on a nerve of il professore's. What horrors would ensure, prof, were tenure abolished k-12 and principals could SACK underperforming teachers? Probably the same horrors we have in the private sector (a competitive labor pool). Although I agree it's not always comfortable, and it can be truly a horror for the incompetent, the alternative--what we have now-- is worse.

sorry, i meant ensue, no ensure.

One of the drawbacks of this forum is that hearsay, and outright lies can get passed along as fact.

That said, I once did hear of someone who moved to Montclair over the summer and had to get her child registered for school. She knew a little about the magnet system and the various "themes" that the schools use as a branding tool.

The person at the BOE told her that her child would be assigned to Nishuane. The mom asked, "How do you know my child is gifted or talented?"

"We don't, but Nishuane is the only school still taking white kids," came the reply.

I don't believe this ever really happened. I just like telling the story.

In fact, the Supreme Coury found that school districts MAY pursue racial balance as long as they construct programs that are "narrowly tailored". They ruled that it would be "profoundly mistaken" to read the Constitution as requiring that school authorities "must accept the status quo of racial isolation in schools". That isolation is exactly what existed in Montclair before the magnet system. And many argue that it would go right back there were this system to end. There is currently NOTHING illegal about the system as operated by the district.
As far as tenure is concerned, any teacher who failed little Ashley, daughter of a school board member, or school board member's friend, or politician's cousin, or prominent local bigwig's goddaughter, would soon find him/herself out of a job. Of course, any administrator looking to put friends and people "like" him or her into spots could also do so by canning teachers and replacing them with others more to their liking. Of course, any teacher broaching a subject deemed out of line by Board members could also go.
Principals by all means need more power to remove, not simply transfer in an annual "dance of the lemons" poor teachers. But scrapping the tenure system would be foolish. By all means, refine it and make it easier to dismiss poor teachers. I would bet the farm that most if not all good teachers would support this, as it would serve to strengthen their positions and it would make the schools better for ALL who go to work there every day.

Mr. Roo,

No nerve hit here, friend.

I don't care either way regarding tenure. However, when your kids favorite teacher is targeted for say, making them read the Bible or Tom Sawyer don't cry when they get sacked.

Likewise, you cannot compare at-will employment (private sector, non-union) to that of unionized public sector employment.

As my teacher friends like to remind folks this time of year-- Summer break-- you knew the deal, if Summer's off is important to you TEACH.

I'll add if job security is important-- TEACH.

(Unfortunately, many would head for the hills after the first day in front of a class....)

Summer's off what?

There is currently NOTHING illegal about the system as operated by the district.

You dance around this, cro, without getting to the nub of the matter. The SC said, if I recall accurately, that whereas the goal of integration is worthy and important, no individual kid can be told where to go on the basis of race. So without knowing the selection procedure in Montclair, how can you make this statement? If you do know the procedure, please tell us.

As you know, bloviating is more my thing. I'm a lousy dancer.
Race cannot be the determining factor. It can, however, be a factor. The procedure is set forth by the district and is available for perusal, unless you believe that it is all lies and that "they" are hiding something.
The Court noted that districts not only should, but that they MUST, act to integrate schools. They struck down two plans in two specific cities, but they left sufficient wiggle room for other districts to craft their own solutions or to tweak what was already in place.
As to how I can make "this statement", I can do so on the basis of the stated policy of the district, as well as the statements made by district legal advisors to the effect that the current sysytem as constituted falls within the definition of a narrow program. You can be sure that it will be challenged by those who believe that it is in violation, but I know of no challenges at the present time. Do you?