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Noisy Neighbors

Monday, August 18, 2008

Let's see if we can come up with some advice for "Sleepless in Montclair," who writes in about neighbors who keep him awake regularly with their loud carrying on.

Very curious to get your readers' opinion on this - how late is too late to be outside in your yard or front porch at night being loud in Montclair? Is it different on a weeknight vs weekend? If your homes are on top of the neighbors (as so many are in town), does that count? If it includes underage drinking and lots of cars on the street, does that change the equation?
We have been tormented by our neighbors for years and it goes on an average of four nights per week. We've tried everything and the cops, whom we have only engaged twice, seem more annoyed with us than the neighbors (and we've limited our calls to the times when the parties continued past 2am).

We hate to take law enforcement resources away from what really matters, but we will live an otherwise quiet street, we paid a lot for our home (like many in town, obviously) and, it goes without saying, our taxes are high. i guess we foolishly expected a certain type of neighbor in this town and maybe we've just gotten very unlucky, but anyone who has had to deal with something similar? we'd love the advice!

Thanks -

Sleepless in Montclair

Of course, Montclair does have a noise ordinance. Click here for a PDF. Bottom line: it's a "nuisance" if it annoys someone, and can be punished by a fine up to $2,000 and 90 days in jail. Maybe since the police are tackling quality of life crimes like public urination and failing to yield to pedestrians, noisy neighbors will be next.

UPDATE: Here's a tip that comes in from someone who'd prefer to remain anonymous:

This is how I stopped a loud neighbor.

Neighbor next door, top part of window didn't close and he'd play his music loud during day, and I could hear it loud and clear in house. I didn't think he knew how it was loud, he kept it within noise ordinance in Clifton, so forget police calls (Clifton does enforce noise complaints.)

What I did is I have a large wind chime with 1 inch metal pipe as chimes. I never used it because to be realistic, I knew it was not fair to neighbors, sucker is loud.

I put it outside, and prayed to the good lord it would be windy every night around 2 am in the morning.

Three days later I see landlord out there measuring window to replace it and solve my problem.

I did apologize to neighbor on other side about chime, worked like a charm!

Posted by Debbie Galant on August 18, 2008 8:53 AM
Email this story |
 

Off the top of my head, I'd say after 10 PM on a weeknight is fair, maybe 11 PM on the weekend. I'm not talking about people's normal conversations, but loud music, raised voices, screaming.

But sometimes noise is a tricky thing. We live next door to a family we adore but the father has a penchant for LOUD tools: saws, leaf blowers, sanders. And always on Sunday afternoon. But these folks never said boo about our backyard wedding with music and cars on the street, so we cut them some slack.

Posted by Mrs. Martta | August 18, 2008 9:01 AM
 

Sleepless said:

"...we paid a lot for our home (like many in town, obviously) and, it goes without saying, our taxes are high. i guess we foolishly expected a certain type of neighbor in this town..."

Well, your neighbors paid a lot too, no? So why does your desire for silence trump their right to have fun on the property they paid for, that they pay taxes on?

Sounds a bit self-righteous to me.

And what do you mean by 'certain type of neighbor'? Are you trying to say something without actually saying it? For the sake of everyone, go ahead and describe your neighbors. Don't beg for sympathy without giving the whole story.

Sounds to me like you had expectations and pre-conceived notions about your neighborhood. Perhaps the problem isn't your neighbor, but your own way of thinking.

Posted by dannyboo | August 18, 2008 9:12 AM
 

Also, I didn't read anywhere where you said that you've tried to engage in a civil conversation with your neighbors. Have you tried that yet?

Posted by dannyboo | August 18, 2008 9:14 AM
 

We have a screened back porch and when our college-age daughter comes home, she and her friends gather there to chat, listen to music, etc. sometimes late into the morning! We've reached out to neighbors on both sides and asked them if they are bothered by the noise and to please call us -- not matter what time -- if they ARE bothered and we'll make sure that the kids bring their noise inside. Like Dannyboo, I'd suggest a quiet conversation and a polite request might go a long way toward solving your problem!

Posted by MontclairMom | August 18, 2008 9:31 AM
 

I have a neighbor that smokes outside and we have the bad luck of that smoke wafting into our home when our windows are open. There is no law against smoking in your home or on your property, and have you ever tried to confront a smoker with the request to not smoke? So we adapt and close the windows. You pick your battles and you're not always going to get what you want.

The only advice here is tolerance. If you love your home and its location, you must accept its surroundings. If you can live without, then moving can be an option.

Posted by Jim | August 18, 2008 9:34 AM
 

How early is too early to begin construction work? The contractors across the street from me start bright and early at 7am, jackhammers and everything.

Posted by banana split | August 18, 2008 9:35 AM
 

I live in a mixed neighborhood -- homeowners and renters living side-by-side. I don't know your situation, but if the noisemakers are college age, then they might be renters. Reach out to their landlord. That's what I did when asking the kids to keep it down at 3 am on a work day (my house was vibrating from the noise), and stop urinating in the bushes did not work.

Posted by montclairlibn1 | August 18, 2008 9:45 AM
 

Interesting that many jump all over the person posing the question rather than answering it. The question presented is: "how late is too late to be outside in your yard or front porch at night being loud in Montclair"

I would say that on weekdays, parties that are loud and extend past 10pm would constitute a nuisance, maybe midnight on weekends. There is a big difference between an infrequent party and something that happens 4 days per week, so I would be more sensitive if this is an ongoing problem. There is a reference to underage drinking, which might indicate that these are students (MSU?) and possibly renters. If so, I would contact the property owner/landlord.

banana - according to the town code, construction is allowed to take place from 7am to 6pm on weekdays and 9am to 4pm on weekends.

Posted by Spicoli | August 18, 2008 10:00 AM
 

dannyboo is right on the money.

I would also add that while I understand that writing/grammar when texting may not follow proper construction, here the grammar and non-capitalization drives me nuts.

And makes this "letter" almost unreadable.

Posted by profwilliams | August 18, 2008 10:05 AM
 

I know what you mean about the smoking. We have a new neighbor across the street who leaves his house to smoke. Then he casts his still-burning cigarette into the street. There is quite the mound there now. A week or so ago I asked him if he could sweep up the butts every few days. He said the street sweeper could do it but the butts don't get swept by it for some reason. Anyway. Now he and his wife smirk whenever they see us working in our front yard and then they throw another cigarette into the pile. Hope a cop sees them some day and gives them a littering ticket.

Posted by oh puleeze | August 18, 2008 10:05 AM
 

To complaintant: Buy a Fender DeVille Deluxe amp with 4x10" speakers. Plug any electric guitar in and turn all dials to 10. Play E chord until neighbor's noise abates.

Posted by MellonBrush | August 18, 2008 10:06 AM
 

I say 11pm weeknights and midnight on the weekend. I'd be hesitant to complain if its a once in a while kind of thing but if it happens all the time I'd be on the phone often. Give them the benefit of the doubt and talk to them. Get their number and then call them directly when it happens again. Then if it still goes on then call the cops.

Posted by State Street Pete | August 18, 2008 10:07 AM
 

turn all dials to 10

I'd turn it to 11, you know, one louder.

Posted by Jim | August 18, 2008 10:14 AM
 

I agree with Spicoli. If the parties are infrequent, live with it. If it's happening 4 times a week and they go on until 2:00 AM, the police should put a stop to it.
Dannyboo and profwilliams, if you can live with this situation on a constant basis, I'd like to nominate both of you for sainthood.

Posted by DC Traveler | August 18, 2008 10:15 AM
 

We deal with the same thing as you Jim, re: smoke wafting into the house through open windows. Like you we pick our battles and close the windows the few times it does happen.

In the land of the free it's funny how we're so quick to restrict someone else's liberties the second we feel they are encroaching on ours, yet cease to consider a civil conversation and compromise as a path to the satisfaction of both parties.

Posted by dannyboo | August 18, 2008 10:16 AM
 

When asked how he got his amazing tone, Johnny Winter said, "Shit man, I just turn everything up to 10."

Posted by MellonBrush | August 18, 2008 10:18 AM
 

Thanks, Spicoli. I had no idea they were allowed to start that early. Thankfully, I have gotten somewhat used to it!

Posted by banana split | August 18, 2008 10:29 AM
 

I think it depends on where you live and who your neighbors are. On week nights, 10 p.m. is a standard cut off for loud noise. On weekends, I keep the windows closed.

When the bars let out at about 1:30/2:00 a.m., I hear a dull roar every night of the week. If a group congregated near my home for more than 5-10 minutes, I would certainly call the cops.

Our former downstairs tenant would call the landlady and complain after any noise after 10 p.m. How hard is it to politely ask your neighbor to keep it down? I believe in using diplomacy. Until that fails. Then call the police. So what if it seems like a waste of their time? It is your right and their job.

Posted by lackawannariot | August 18, 2008 10:32 AM
 

Sorry if I'm a bit skeptical and won't simply take 'Sleepless's words at face value simply because he/she is the first person bringing this up.

The questions I have are:

-Are there any other neighbors complaining about these 'noisy' neighbors? Sleepless said they live on an otherwise quiet street. Is there anyone else complaining?

-We all know that 96% of statistics are made up on the spot. So is it REALLY 4 nights a week or was it 4 nights last week and maybe 1 or 2 the previous weeks. Sleepless claims this problem has been ongoing for years. So doing Sleepless' math, that means 208 (4*52) out of the 365 days a year, their neighbor is up late playing loud music? Is that really accurate? I would have to think that if this were REALLY the situation 208 days out of the year, everyone else on Sleepless' street would be about to burn down that neighbors' house and the police would have done something about it by now. To be honest, it sounds like Sleepless might have a grudge against 1 particular neighbor and is drastically exaggerating the situation in an attempt to garner sympathy.

-"We hate to take law enforcement resources away from what really matters." At 10pm in Montclair, the police force isn't exactly fighting terrorism. I'm sure they could spare the time to really look into it, especially if this were happening an average of 4 times per week over the span of several years. And if Sleepless is so adamant about how much they paid for their house, and how much taxes they are paying, why all of a sudden hesitate when using a benefit that comes with those taxes: as a town resident, using your municipal police force for a problem.

-My answer to Sleepless' question is that I would talk to my neighbor and come to a compromise. It's really not that hard. So in turn, my question to Sleepless would be if he/she has tried having a civil conversation and attempted to come to a compromise with the neighbor?

-Still waiting to hear an answer to why Sleepless thinks his/her right to absolute silence trumps their neighbors' right to party?

There's 2 sides to every story and then there's the truth.


Posted by dannyboo | August 18, 2008 10:34 AM
 

I am willing to believe Sleepless, having experienced something similar myself. We had college students next door for a little less than 1 year. They partied almost every night 4 am. Many neighbors were upset. We called the police numerous times. My husband and I attempted to talk to the kids directly but in went in one ear and out the other. The only way we seemed to get through was by complaining to the police and their landlord. Not every noise/bad neighbor situation can resolved via polite conversation, but I agree that's where it should start. Recently, my husband had to break up a fight between 2 sorority sister neighbors that involved an aluminum baseball bat. He did not take the time to have a polite conversation with them. Again, this is on a otherwise normal & quiet residential block.

Posted by montclairlibn1 | August 18, 2008 10:44 AM
 

I'm curious about what the other neighbors think too. And 4 times a week until 2am but the police won't do anything? Really?

I had a downstairs neighbor who complained that the rain hitting her window was me making too much noise, and that vacuuming at noon on a Saturday was rude.

Posted by hrhppg | August 18, 2008 10:44 AM
 

"until 4 am"

Posted by montclairlibn1 | August 18, 2008 10:45 AM
 

Jim - one of my favorite movies

Posted by gail | August 18, 2008 10:45 AM
 

leaf blowers should be banned.
Approximately 20 California cities have banned leaf blowers:http://www.nonoise.org/quietnet/cqs/other.htm

Posted by catinthehat | August 18, 2008 10:48 AM
 

dannboo - you have made a Bob Beamon-like jump to many conclusions. Lighten up.

As for the leaf blower comment, Montclair's leaf blower noise code is already more detailed than any other noise-related issue. Please, let's not waste any more township time and energy on leaf blowers.

Posted by Spicoli | August 18, 2008 10:52 AM
 

We used to have a bunch of crazy soccer players screaming at the top of their lungs on Sunday mornings across the street in Watsessing park. Their use of profanity and exessive screaming and shouting were very annoying and offensive.

We sic'd the Essex County police on them a few times and they haven't been back since.

Posted by MellonBrush | August 18, 2008 10:55 AM
 

"Still waiting to hear an answer to why Sleepless thinks his/her right to absolute silence trumps their neighbors' right to party?"

It doesnt. Quiet only trumps the right to party loudly outside. Rage inside all you want.

Posted by jimmy229oz | August 18, 2008 11:06 AM
 

I'd totally sign up for a leaf blower ban if the city sent some guys down to rake my leaves or paid for a landscaper to do it.

And then passed an ordinance banning Harley Davidsons so the guy that lives behind me could stop revving his motor trying to impress all the skanky leather-clad single women within 5 miles that can hear it. Hell, back in my day we didn't even HAVE these fancy motorcycle-whatcha-ma-bobs. We WALKED wherever we needed to go and did it in WOODEN CLOGS with pinecones for soles!

And then passed a law requiring hammers with a 1 inch pad on the head so that anyone doing construction work on my street didn't wound my poor sensitive ears with that constant metal on metal hammering. And we need to just do away with electric circular saws and do it like the Amish, by hand, baby! Not only is it quieter but it builds character! The kind of character needed to be considerate enough not to make noise around me!

Perhaps we can pass out muzzles for the hordes of teenage and younger kids that have infested the neighborhood who scream and yell and play and all that other unnecessary ruckus. They act all carefree like they haven't a care in the world. It would do those little sons'of'bitches good to learn how unforgiving and cruel the real world is if we slap some muzzles on 'em.

Actually, if I could just find a way to crawl back up into my mothers' womb where it's safe and warm and nobody can bother me and where I am insulated from all the loud scary noises and bad people, life would be so much better. I mean...

Wait, sorry, my wife was bugging me mid-sentence asking me where she wanted me to put those $1.69 foam earplugs I got at CVS that I wear whenever I'm doing home remodeling or yard work. I had to buy a new pair because whenever there's noises in the neighborhood that bother her, she keeps taking them and wearing them. I have to remind her they're not disposable and she can wear one pair virtually forever. Anyway, back to the topic...

As I was saying, everyone's entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness as long as it doesn't interfere with mine.

Posted by dannyboo | August 18, 2008 11:06 AM
 

I am 100% pro-leaf blowers.

I am also fine with the construction noise, just surprised it's allowed to start at 7am.

Posted by banana split | August 18, 2008 11:20 AM
 

I'm mixed about the leaf blowers. What's wrong with raking? Or hiring a kid to do it? Leaf blowers on my block usually means undocumented workers which actually bothers me more than the noise.

Posted by Mrs. Martta | August 18, 2008 11:23 AM
 

I had a neighbor who would use his leaf blower to move a small pile of leaves from his back yard to his front yard, sometimes having it on for over 1/2 an hour continuously.

He died watching a Yankee game and after his passing I never heard the blower again even though his family remained in the house.

I guess it was his hobby.

Posted by MellonBrush | August 18, 2008 11:28 AM
 

I have no problem with leaf blowers. My neighbors have never complained that my lawn guy uses a blower. Raking takes so much longer.

Posted by Nellie | August 18, 2008 11:31 AM
 

He died watching a Yankee game...

And went, no doubt, straight to a box seat in heaven.

Posted by walleroo | August 18, 2008 11:38 AM
 

The answer here is simple and quite obvious. If you read the back forth posting, I think DannyBoo lives next to Sleepless and is the one making all the noise. Now why don't the two of you work out a compromise?

Posted by Steve from Yellowstone | August 18, 2008 11:50 AM
 

Try living in an apartment and have a tv blaring all night from the guy upstairs...

Posted by surprise | August 18, 2008 12:00 PM
 

My brother and I used to have 'track meets' in our third floor apartment complete with 100 lap races through the apartment and the 'high jump' in our bedroom.

The McDonald family who lived below us were not big fans of these 'events' and used to pound their ceiling with a broom in a futile attempt to dissuade us from our athletic endeavors.

Posted by MellonBrush | August 18, 2008 12:09 PM
 

Mrs. Martta,

If you raking is an offer, I'll happily accept!!!

My vast estate is located in Upper Montclair, surrounded by trees of the same species (hopefully the Town Tree-guy will leave 'em alone) and a billion leaves.

Should I schedule a date or do you just want the address?

(I have a leaf blower, if you have your "papers" in order....0;)

Posted by profwilliams | August 18, 2008 12:18 PM
 

He died watching a Yankee game...

Wow, talk about being thrown a curveball.

Posted by Nellie | August 18, 2008 12:19 PM
 

He probably never knew what hit him.

Posted by MellonBrush | August 18, 2008 12:28 PM
 

It is our right to expect sanity, and if the actions of your neighbors are preventing this - it is an issue. Until you have lived next door to loud, rude and littering neighbors, you have no idea. My elderly parents have terrible neighbors, in a very expensive and exclusive area (and yes, I do think it tends makes a difference), they throw their cigarette butts in to my parents yard, blast music and slam doors until sunrise. The excess noise occasionally would be fine, heck - it would be a boring life if we didn't all let our hair down once in a while) but this carries on night after night. The polite conversations have not worked, and nor has speaking to their landlord/parents, so what is left but the police, who (they are not in NJ) have done nothing as yet. I am sure nothing will be done until my 78 year old father, driven mad by the constant noise, throws a brick through their window... and then he gets landed in jail.
And they WOULD move if they could, and yes the other neighbors are livid too. I would be happy to see rude and disrespectful neighbors in the stocks, tomatos and all.

Posted by Brit in NJ | August 18, 2008 12:30 PM
 

Mellon, would you mind posting your address. My brother and I would like to stop by.

Cheers,
Bobby McDonald

Posted by croiagusanam | August 18, 2008 12:34 PM
 

montclairlibn1, sorority sisters with an aluminum bat sounds AWESOME!! Can I move to your street?

Wow, reading all the responses here makes me realize how curmudgeonly my neighbors have been at times about my rehearsals here.

Once a week (until our group leader moved back to Seattle), I had a west African drumming rehearsal with 2 other people at my house--usually on a weeknight from 7:30 to 9 pm. We *always* wrapped up by 9. And I always made sure all the windows and doors were closed to minimize the noise.

One time, one of my neighbors called the cops around 8 pm. (They did swing by, but apologized for interrupting our rehearsal.)

Another time, some crazy lady (I don't even know who she is or where she lives) WALKED INTO MY HOUSE UNINVITED at 8:45 pm and started screaming at me about how she was trying to sleep!

I politely noted that walking into a stranger's house uninvited was a good way to get into a bit of trouble and escorted her out. I really should be more careful about locking my doors.

I guess my point is that it would be nice if neighbors tried actually talking reasonably to each other instead of taking all kinds of roundabout aggro actions. I wouldn't have stopped having rehearsals here, but I would have worked out a compromise with them if they'd just been considerate about how they brought it up.

I've never complained about all the noise on my street from screaming kids, screaming parents (extremely unpleasant), leafblowers, etc. I happen to think that the sound of 3 dunduns and bells is quite a lot more enjoyable than any of those things, too.

Posted by Kate | August 18, 2008 12:42 PM
 

Hey Bobby,

No can do. I think it was you or your older brother Tim that beat me to a pulp after I dropped your cat from a second story window to see if it would land on it's feet.

I'd prefer not to relive that moment.

Posted by MellonBrush | August 18, 2008 12:42 PM
 

MM, how on earth do you know the people working on your street are undocumented? Do you ask to see their papers?

Posted by Kate | August 18, 2008 12:45 PM
 

C'mon mellon. That was a long time ago, and Tim has had years of therapy for his anger issues. We never liked that cat anyway.
We'd love to come over -- me, Tim, cousin Brendan and one of Tim's friends from juvie -- Whaddaya say?

Posted by croiagusanam | August 18, 2008 12:50 PM
 

Cro,

Let me see if my brother Laury wants to visit me and I'll have you guys over if he does.

Posted by MellonBrush | August 18, 2008 12:54 PM
 

Katie, based on your posts I think we do live in, roughly, the same neighborhood.

Posted by montclairlibn1 | August 18, 2008 12:58 PM
 

"Mrs. Martta,

If you raking is an offer, I'll happily accept!!!"

Sorry, Prof. We have our own yard to do. No shortage of leaves there.

Posted by Mrs. Martta | August 18, 2008 1:01 PM
 

Steve - haha, okay I'll stop partying late at night if Sleepless gets her husband to stop defecating on my lawn and keeps her mother-in-law from grazing in my garden.

Kate - Why, they have brown skin and do landscaping. They MUST be illegal! Such ignorance...

Posted by dannyboo | August 18, 2008 1:01 PM
 

My sister lives next to a compulsive leaf-blower in Bergen County. The guy would use it EVERY NIGHT. If there is snow on the ground, he uses the blower on it.

I sometimes think leaf blower use is inversely proportional to the level of happiness in one's marriage.

Posted by becky | August 18, 2008 1:08 PM
 

montclairlibn1--katie is a different poster from me...

Posted by Kate | August 18, 2008 1:11 PM
 

"Such ignorance..."

So much for *compassionate* liberals. Pish-tosh!

Posted by Mrs. Martta | August 18, 2008 1:20 PM
 

Ignorance means being uninformed. It is not party specific.

Posted by jerseygurl | August 18, 2008 1:28 PM
 

Really though -- what makes you so sure they're illegal?

Posted by Tom Traubert | August 18, 2008 1:47 PM
 

If you lived in my nabes, you'd know, believe me.

Posted by Mrs. Martta | August 18, 2008 1:52 PM
 

Leaf blowers help clog the drains to the waterways and increase street flooding. If you watch the landscapers who use them, they blow the clippings and leaves into the streets and into the drains. Next time the street floods during a heavy rainstorm, be sure to send the landscapers a thank you card.

Posted by Spot The Looney | August 18, 2008 1:52 PM
 

That's the "ignorance" part.

Posted by jerseygurl | August 18, 2008 1:52 PM
 

Well, it's obvious she knows from personally questioning each and every landscaper that they're all illegal. So she's basing her assumptions on her extensive personal experience!

Or she just likes to subscribe to her prejudiced stereotypes of brown skinned folks like any good prejudiced bigot would.

Yet more proof of her ignorance is that I never claimed to be compassionate, liberal or a compassionate liberal.

So that's twice in one topic now. This is becoming a habit. Sure hope it's not contagious! Quick, put on your SARS masks!

Posted by dannyboo | August 18, 2008 1:53 PM
 

One of the problems that I see in Montclair is that there are power brokers from NYC that are used to a lifestyle of "no sleep". Bars get out at 2am on the weekends, and after hours (even civil amongst late 20s professionals) can go on until 5am. On the week nights, I will have a dinner party with another couple that will go on until midnight. after some drinks, we usually engage in conversations that result to everyone speaking louder and louder to get their point across.

The problem usually isnt with your neighbors, but with your walls. My girlfriend lived on Hillside near the art museum, and anyone with a healthy sex life could not engage freely because the walls were too thin. We recently moved, and a great selling point was that the apartment had "sound proof walls and ceiling" noted in the ad! If you live near a bar, you dont live on a quiet street. If you dont live near the bar, ask your neighbors to go to another house closer to the bars for after hour parties. My neighbors on both sides have my cell phone, and I respect their right to sleep. But I stay out late, and wake up early, so I have little respect for that neighbor who wants to sleep in on a Saturday

Posted by jimmytown | August 18, 2008 1:57 PM
 

You can call me any names you'd like, JG and Dannywhatever. Just remember that name calling says more about the caller than the callee.

Danny, I know you're a liberal from your posts here. One doesn't have to be a sleuth to figure that out. Personally, I don't care, but you made a big point illustrating how inferior we conservatives are as compared to "the enlightened ones." I can see now that's not the case.

Posted by Mrs. Martta | August 18, 2008 2:01 PM
 

The fact that every topic on this site somehow spirals into a bi-partisan pissing contest is getting just a liiittle bit tired.

Posted by banana split | August 18, 2008 2:11 PM
 

How exactly does Martta know that in "her nabe" the landscapers are illegal? It's not a question of conservative or liberal. It's a question of bias.

Posted by relax people | August 18, 2008 2:16 PM
 

Don't mistake my vehement anti-racism for liberalness. For one thing, I'm for gun ownership. You conservatives are so hell bent on pigeonholing the rest of the world into categories and labels so you don't have to employ critical thinking and rational thought to decode the gray area in between which is actually where the majority of the world resides.

You can twist it however you want to attempt to make yourself look less repulsive than you are but the fact of the matter remains, as was blatantly obvious to all who read, that you are prejudiced and no matter how you slice it, prejudices are wrong and are employed by hatemongers and scumbags.

Posted by dannyboo | August 18, 2008 2:17 PM
 

No can do. I think it was you or your older brother Tim that beat me to a pulp after I dropped your cat from a second story window to see if it would land on it's feet.
-----------------------

Not funny

Posted by Nellie | August 18, 2008 2:18 PM
 

Too bad Cathar is away. Isn't this about where we'd start hearing about St. Augustine, the Scots, and how hard oil companies work for their hard earned dollars?

Posted by jerseygurl | August 18, 2008 2:21 PM
 

"...prejudices are wrong and are employed by hatemongers and scumbags."

Well you're prejudiced against conservatives, so what does that make you? I sense vitriol.

Posted by Mrs. Martta | August 18, 2008 2:23 PM
 

Hmmm. Prejudice is about making a judgement before being aware of the facts. So technically, calling someone prejudiced for making assumptions based on someone's appearance does not make the person doing the calling prejudiced.

That said, I don't think anyone calling anyone else names really helps support any side of any argument,it just becomes name calling. It would be better to enlighten someone who is ignorant, or prejudiced. If they are willing to listen. Of course no one will be pre-disposed to listening to anything if insults get in the way.

Posted by jerseygurl | August 18, 2008 2:30 PM
 

"well you're prejudiced against conservatives, so what does that make you?"
_____________________________

You have inadvertantly admitted you are prejudiced. I think political prejudice is more in the grey than racial prejudice, which is clearly black and white!

Posted by jimmytown | August 18, 2008 2:30 PM
 

my next door neighbor has delusions that she lives on multiple acres in rural, secluded Sussex county - used to scream out her windows at the kids in the surrounding yards -- mine or her back yard neighbor or even her diagonal backyard neighbor -- when they'd be out playing (I'm talking about kids under the age of 10 in the middle of the afternoon). And God forbid they were playing with a DOG. One "woof" and she was running for 9-1-1 -- again, I'm talking about the middle of the afternoons! Last year she and her darling husband flipped out when kids in the neighborhood were into fire pits in the evening.

Posted by VNC | August 18, 2008 2:30 PM
 

Back to the topic, loud neighbor

Posted by Pokey | August 18, 2008 2:31 PM
 

MM -- I'm pretty sure I do live in your "nabes."

Posted by Tom Traubert | August 18, 2008 2:32 PM
 

Well, stop over for a beer some day.

Posted by Mrs. Martta | August 18, 2008 2:35 PM
 

When I was moving out of an unsaid apartment building in montclair, I had a neighbor say that she was going out tonight, and that she needed to rest up for the big party. (it was 5pm) asked if I didnt mind waiting till 9pm when she was going to head out to finish moving!

Posted by jimmytown | August 18, 2008 2:36 PM
 

But some of my best friends are conservatives! haha

Thanks for the sentiments JG, unfortunately as history has proven, someone with such profound misconceptions about people who aren't like her is incapable of being educated on such matters. This is the 'Old Guard' who, upon their passing which I so eagerly await, will take their archaic mentalities with them.

jimmytown - funny observation :)

VNC, you could be describing my mother. haha

Posted by dannyboo | August 18, 2008 2:37 PM
 

Ooooh, you're so perfect in every way, Dannyboo, I can't stand it. How does you big head fit through the door?

Posted by Mrs. Martta | August 18, 2008 2:41 PM
 

Thanks, no.

Posted by Tom Traubert | August 18, 2008 2:42 PM
 

Nellie,

It wasn't meant to be funny. It actually happened and I assure you the cat was not injured. I grew up in a neighborhood in East Orange where most Baristavillians would pee their pants if they made a wrong turn and found themselves lost there.

Not long after we moved out of there following a vicious beating to my younger brother by a howling mob, it became the murder capitol of Essex County. I'm talking the area between Main Street / Park Ave / Parkway Drive and Arlington Ave.

Some of the denizens of this neighborhood were child molesters, arsonists, murderers, con-artists, and your basic run of the mill thug.

I managed to escape without too much pychological damage, but just barely.

Posted by MellonBrush | August 18, 2008 2:44 PM
 

I did hear last week that it is expected that within the next 10 years the next group that will be assimilated into the category "white" or "caucasian" on applications, census forms etc. will be hispanics. Much like Italians and Jews in the past ,among other various ethnicities, have been. One day the question will hopefully be eliminated altogether and no one will make assumptions that "brown" gardeners are illegal any more than they would assume that "italian" construction workers are.

Posted by jerseygurl | August 18, 2008 2:48 PM
 

In NYC, most of my friends are great neighbors because nobody hangs out at their apartments. (I've known guys and girls here for 10 years and still have never seen the inside of their building) Montclair is more of a "go to the bar, come home; hang out" kinda town and you have to deal with the neighbors. If you actually said hi to them and gave your number out, these problems would be less of an issue. I think this whole "sleepless in montclair" thing is all about communication and knowing your neighbors. you paid a lot for your home, and yet your money doesnt speak for you. How did you make such a salary to afford the home without social skills?

Posted by jimmytown | August 18, 2008 2:51 PM
 

All the extra thinking we'll have to do!

Posted by Tom Traubert | August 18, 2008 2:51 PM
 

"You conservatives are so hell bent on pigeonholing the rest of the world into categories and labels so you don't have to employ critical thinking and rational thought... "

All conservatives? Funny.

Posted by mv07042 | August 18, 2008 2:54 PM
 

"You conservatives are so hell bent on pigeonholing the rest of the world into categories and labels so you don't have to employ critical thinking and rational thought... "


File under Pot Meets Kettle.

Then we have someone who "thinks" he may live in my neighborhood but WO is a pretty big town so how could he could he possibly know that? But apparently he thinks he's too good to share a beer with us so no biggie.

I'll have Tom Waits over instead.

Posted by Mrs. Martta | August 18, 2008 2:59 PM
 

It actually happened and I assure you the cat was not injured.
------------------

Thanks for clarifying. I'm glad the cat was OK. I hope your brother was, too.

Posted by Nellie | August 18, 2008 3:02 PM
 

Tom Waits lives in West Orange???

Posted by Kate | August 18, 2008 3:02 PM
 

It actually happened and I assure you the cat was not injured.
------------------

Thanks for clarifying. I'm glad the cat was OK. I hope your brother was, too.

Posted by Nellie | August 18, 2008 3:03 PM
 

Never mind; total brain fart. Just got it.

I wish he did live in WO. That would be sweeeeeeet.

Posted by Kate | August 18, 2008 3:03 PM
 

Uh, I was joking, Kate. Tom Traubert's Blues is a song by Tom Waits.

Posted by Mrs. Martta | August 18, 2008 3:04 PM
 

He also does a beautiful heart wrenching version of Bruce's "Jersey Girl". Tom lives in Pomona. Waits, not Traubert.

Posted by jerseygurl | August 18, 2008 3:09 PM
 

Didn't get it at first because I think of that song as the "Waltzing Matilda" one. (I don't spend a lot of time on liner notes, I guess.)

I love "The Piano Has Been Drinking (Not Me)." Not that I've ever had a night like that...

Posted by Kate | August 18, 2008 3:14 PM
 

Again with your insistence on making the world so clear cut. Why do I have to be 'perfect' simply because I'm anti-racist? What process of thought do you go through to come up with such an obscure notion? Seriously, as a psychology and human behavior buff, I would really like to know. Same with the abstract notion that being anti-racist somehow makes me so conceited that I can't fit my head through the door. Honestly, how do you come up with this stuff?

If you view me as perfect, that's your issue, not mine. My wife would surely sit you down for a few hours and tell you the contrary.

And you're right. All conservatives do not behave in the manner I suggested. I should have specified and said all conservatives like you.

Somehow I don't think you'll be clarifying your illegal landscaper comment to better represent a more rational and unprejudiced point of view. Because while my amended conservative view just means I need to reconsider the simple notion that not all conservatives are narrow-minded twits, amending your view means you have to reconsider your own prejudices about an entire race of people which I'm sure would then call into question the inevitable stereotypes you hold against other races of people.

Posted by dannyboo | August 18, 2008 3:15 PM
 

'Shiny Things' and 'Little Drop of Poison' are my fav. Waits tunes.

Posted by dannyboo | August 18, 2008 3:18 PM
 

And how do YOU arrive at your cockamamie notion that I'm a racist? Am I prejudiced? yes, I AM prejudiced against people who live and work here illegally, no matter what race, national origin or planet they're from. But you instantly jump on the racist bandwagon. Did I mention what color their skin was? No, it was YOU who inferred that they were "brown-skinned." It must get tiring to be so self-righteous all the time.

Posted by Mrs. Martta | August 18, 2008 3:22 PM
 

Regardless, I'm fairly sure he's given up drinking.

Posted by Tom Traubert | August 18, 2008 3:23 PM
 

My favorite TW album of all time is "Bone Machine." It got me through some hard days.

Favorite song: "Who Are You?"
Also lovelovelove: "A Little Rain" and "What's He Building?" from Mule Variations.

Be careful--the first 2 are incredibly, terribly sad. For wallowing times only.

Posted by Kate | August 18, 2008 3:25 PM
 

I'm partial to the old stuff myself, The Heart of Saturday Night being top on the list. Lots to be said for Raindogs, though.

Posted by Tom Traubert | August 18, 2008 3:26 PM
 

Martta,

Still curious: how do you know that the landscapers in "your nabe" are illegal? Again, not a liberal or conservative question, just a question of bias...

Posted by relax people | August 18, 2008 3:30 PM
 

The question still remains, how can a person know a worker is "undocumented" by looking at them? And why are all "undocumented" people seen as such a threat? I've spent a lot of time in LA - pretty much anyone of any means has someone taking care of their kids, their aging parents, their lawns, cleaning their homes - and for the most part they are of Mexican descent. Not all are documented, most are surely not on the books. Then there are the almonds, strawberries, avocados, oranges, lemons -- you wouldn't be able to afford any of those grown in CA if there were no migrant farmers. It's a complex issue. Then there's Cesar Milan - he swam over the river. Who's job did he take?

Posted by jerseygurl | August 18, 2008 3:31 PM
 

Jerseygurl -- I agree with you here, but the image of someone swimming over a river is pretty funny.

Posted by Tom Traubert | August 18, 2008 3:34 PM
 

I loved 'Closing Time' by Waits. I need to get that one on CD.

Nellie,

I always felt really bad about dropping that cat. One of the kids in my building put me up to it and I didn't want to look like a 'wus, so I did it. I got a genuine pounding by one of the five McDonald boys for it, I can't remember their names though - sad story, no dad, mother on welfare with 7 kids.

Today, I own 4 cats, all former street toms, and can barely bring myself to kill the pavement ants that sometimes invade my kitchen.

Posted by MellonBrush | August 18, 2008 3:36 PM
 

Well Tom, it's a good thing Cesar is a good swimmer. Or my dog would be IMPOSSIBLE!

Posted by jerseygurl | August 18, 2008 3:39 PM
 

I've never seen anyone work harder that those incredibly tough brown dudes that painted our house.

Working under tarps with rotary sanders wearing protective suits and wearing big breathing filters in 90+ heat can only be acomplished by tough sons of Bs.

Personally, I'm glad they are willing to do the work and I they made it this far, more power to 'em.

Posted by MellonBrush | August 18, 2008 3:41 PM
 

JG,

You should meet mine -- "undocumented" themselves, as it were, the two of them are far beyond help.

Posted by Tom Traubert | August 18, 2008 3:44 PM
 

"Leaf blowers on my block usually means undocumented workers which actually bothers me more than the noise."

"Did I mention what color their skin was? No, it was YOU who inferred that they were "brown-skinned.""

That is a pretty disingenuous argument, MM.

Posted by Spicoli | August 18, 2008 3:48 PM
 

Mellon, So it sounds as if you have truly reformed from your earlier _CAT-astrophic incident.

Posted by Nellie | August 18, 2008 3:48 PM
 

TT, I recently hired a local dog trainer to work with us, our new pit bull puppy, and my 2 long-time resident small dogs, who I thought were beyond training thanks to years of my spoiling them.

He has helped us make amazing progress with all 3 dogs in a very short time. His name is Josh Cederbaum. I highly recommend him, and I know he's also done some great work with challenging dogs at PAWS (who recommended him to me).

Posted by Kate | August 18, 2008 3:50 PM
 

That's actually very helpful; thank you.

Posted by Tom Traubert | August 18, 2008 3:51 PM
 

You never know. Your leaf blower might turn out like this guy.

Posted by Spicoli | August 18, 2008 3:54 PM
 

TT, My pleasure--I've worked with other trainers in the past I wouldn't recommend, so I'm happy to turn people on to someone who's so good.

Josh has really helped me implement simple changes that have encouraged my dogs to relax and let me be the leader (which I think they actually prefer) and it's made everything SO much easier, from feeding time to people knocking at the front door (which used to be a horrible ruckus).

Don't lose hope for the trainability of your pups! If my older two can improve, anyone can. :)

Also, I don't know the nature of the issues with your dogs, but we've really stepped up the amount of exercise all 3 of ours are getting (walks and running) and that has also helped immensely.

Posted by Kate | August 18, 2008 3:58 PM
 

Great story Spicoli. Undoubtedly, someone will think he took the "place" of an American who should have gotten that job as a brain surgeon. I'd love to hear that argument, almost as much as I love to hear people get all flummoxed when they find out they'd have virtually no produce grown here if it weren't for undocumented workers.

Posted by jerseygurl | August 18, 2008 3:59 PM