Pajama Game

Actually, what Liz didn't say was that I did it poolside, like Paris, and in fact got accosted by paparazzi while I was recording it.

Whatever this item is actually about, it doesn't read at all clearly. Unlike good journalism.

I also wonder what Baristanet would in fact do without all those Star-Ledger items to crib from.

Well, if you watch it, Debbie wishes them luck because she likes linking to all their stories. And here is the link to the webcast where you can forward to 5:33 to see the response: http://www.nj.com/ledgerlive/index.ssf/2008/08/the_webcast_wednesday_august_6.html

Ignore the link because now the video is posted in the story.

Ugh, this guy is funny. Sitting in his "newsroom" waiting for a call... PLEASE!

And so rude to Deb?

He'll be sending her a resume soon enough... Or starting his own placeblog.

Or just crying into his beer about the good old days.

Can you explain this a little more clearly? Maybe it's just me, but what do you mean by "go to 5 minutes, 33 seconds..." etc.? Is there another link?

They sent us the clip (which we embedded above) so you don't need to go to 5:33 anymore...

Comparing this site to a news organization is a bit silly. A bit like comparing Cliff's Notes (and a bunch of his ill informed, snarky friends) to a piece of literature.

I get annoyed when I hear "real journalists" talk condescendingly about bloggers, but I also find Deb's comments equally annoying and condescending. As cathar rightly said above, much of the hard news on this site comes from the Ledger and other sources. If the Ledger goes under Baristanet will not take it's place and this website will suffer from the loss of a source.

News blogs and local blogs are great, and they have taken their proper place alongside other info resources. In the present environment, where corporations dominate the dissemination of news, blogs are a great counterbalance, but are not a replacement for newspapers and broadcast news.

SSP, couldn't have said it better myself.

Interesting that this particular "real journalist" lives in Montclair. How about a throw down right here in baristaville??

But if no one buys the paper.... or watches the newscast, what?

This is almost like when napster was around and the record companies tried to scare us with: NO ONE WILL MAKE MUSIC AGAIN....

And now we have more music than ever before.

The Newspaper (at least the Star Ledger) is dead.

Long live the Newspaper.

For I believe that someone will find a way to make money and break stories in the future.

I have faith in that. People still want to be informed.

Estimates of how much Si Newhouse has sunk so far into Conde Nast's business magazine "Portfolio" range from the low to fairly high eight figures. With that kind of expenditure on a magazine which probably has zero chance of attaining circulation or advertising success within the next 10 years, that he even half-threatens to sell the Ledger is baffling indeed given the relative manageability of its losses to date. (This can't be the whole story unless Si Newhouse really is that dead set on frittering away his money on glossy, but useless, consumer mags.)

But sell to whom? This is where speculation should really be centered. Cablevision, of all "people," is buying Newsday, after all. And for no clearly discernible reason. Who really would want the Ledger if Advance Publications decided it could no longer support it is the real issue. I'd love to hear some educated (or even non-educated from some of the grumbly liberal louts who populate this site) as to who might in fact buy the Ledger, whether at a "distress sale" price or otherwise.

Yes, too, as Ms. Galant's remarks indicate, Baristanet seems to do comparatively (albeit on a greatly reduced scale) better with its advertising as opposed to the Ledger's present travails. But so much of those advertising gains are clearly accomplished here via the placement of baldly favorable items about advertisers. This may be a somewhat understandable market decision by the Baristas, but it isn't necessarily the way to build journalistic credibility as even a half-serious local replacement for the Ledger should it ever truly go under.

That Baristanet thus seems to derive some glee from the Ledger's current difficulties is, at the very least, unseemly and mordant in the extreme.

While this site is sometimes a good source of news on an ultra-local level, it is not journalism.

Real journalists have verifiable original sources, offer the subject of an article the opportunity to comment, fact check and have an editor looking over their shoulder every step of the way. In additon, they must maintain strict neutrality -- they cannot accept even a cup of coffee from the people they cover.

Shame on you Liz for the quotations around "real". She is a real journalist. You, and the rest of the contributors to this site, are not.

if the Star Ledger wasn't so damn boring, I would have kept my subscription.

"...as to who might in fact buy the Ledger, whether at a 'distress sale' price or otherwise."

Rupert?

lurker,

How can you claim the barista's (or anyone who posts some information they've gleaned) are not journalists?

Must one work for a newspaper?

Tell me, is there a new state license for "journalists"?

You cannot claim to be a Dr., teacher, lawyer, or barber without a state license.

However, anyone who records a daily event can call themselves a journalist.

By definition, posts or stories here certainly qualify as journalism... And the folks who write 'em are thus journalists.

(I love the old guard clinging to some outdated model of what constitutes a "journalist"....)

The woman in the curlers said real journalists -- I was distinguishing between her and us. I thought Deb's whole thing was tongue in cheek, but maybe the curler chick took her seriously. However, even when I work as a real journalist, I'd never call myself that, probably because it sounds a little pretentious. I hope the Ledger makes it.

Bring back the Newark Evening News! I used to deliver the Star-Ledger in the a.m. when I was a kid....toooo early!....PAZ in BWI on yet another delayed flight out of EWR.

Gee, they sure turned mean, and after The Star-Ledger did that nice Baristanet insert too.

This is almost like when napster was around and the record companies tried to scare us with: NO ONE WILL MAKE MUSIC AGAIN....
And now we have more music than ever before.

We do? Is it any good? 'Cause 99.9% of the internet artists I hear are the crap losers who weren't good enough to make it through the record companies' screening process. You know, like Spitzer's hooker. All this "extra" music is nothing but the record companies' reject bin.

I have faith in that. People still want to be informed.

Then how do you explain FOX News... or MSNBC... or CNN... etc. ;->

However, anyone who records a daily event can call themselves a journalist.

If you want to play semantics, yes, but Baristanet is by no means a news organization on anything close to the same level as The Star-Ledger or even Bloomfield Life. In the few months I've been reading along, entertaining as it can be at times, there's very little original reporting done here -- not much in-depth commentary, either -- and if you think the advertising they're getting is enough to legitmately support even one full-time journalist, either you're crazy or their advertisers are real suckers.

GreyPoupon, what an ignorant comment. Mainstream record companies aren't exactly known these days for choosing the cream of the crop; they seem to choose mainly what will sell to 15-year-olds. But I guess if you need to have corporations choose your music for you, then finding original music on the web is probably too much effort.

Liz, from my personal experience, Debbie's tone (which I've seen her call 'snarky') can very easily be read as plain nasty. I didn't perceive her interview as tongue in cheek at all; I interpreted it the same way Cathar did. It looked like schadenfreude in the extreme, and I'm not surprised it raised the hackles of the journalists at the S-L.

re: the advertising comments, by "you" I meant Cathar.

GreyPoupon, what an ignorant comment. Mainstream record companies aren't exactly known these days for choosing the cream of the crop; they seem to choose mainly what will sell to 15-year-olds. But I guess if you need to have corporations choose your music for you, then finding original music on the web is probably too much effort.

LOL Kate, there you go again: displaying ignorance while calling me ignorant, just like in the guitar thread. I don't have trouble finding new music on the internet. I have trouble finding good, honed, lasting music.

So, I need bad corporations to choose my music? Like the corporations that signed and nurtured The Beatles and every other GREAT act pre-Napster, pre-internet? Where are the Bob Dylans, the Simon & Garfunkles, The Elvises (Presley and Costello), the David Bowies? Hell, I'll even ask where are the Nirvanas? If you want to listen to KT Tunsal's one woman band and pretend she's as good as that corporate hack Carole King who sharpened her song writing craft in the Brill Building, then have a ball.

What you are dismissing as "corporate" is simply the music industry that sorts and filters out the most talented and then helps them hone their craft. Not even The Beatles were The Beatles when they walked into the studio the first time. Without that corporate hack George Martin to help them with their songwriting and arrangements they might have vanished in Hamburg.

The internet has not freed music and made it better. It is choking the goose that lays the golden eggs. I hear some catchy stuff, but I rarely want to hear it more than a few times and it doesn't stay with me. I'm hearing demo quality music too easily produced with the help of desktop computer programs. First draft stuff by artists who have not had any mentors challenge them to do better. Someone in the know to force them to reevaluate their work and go at it again. Instead they get blog fans typing, "You guys rock!"

(Btw, the music industry has been selling to 15-year-olds since teens became a buying force in the the 50's and 60's.)

The convergence of media is a main issue of interest and discussion in the Journalism class that I teach. Students are interested in web based media but see newspapers as antiquated, sadly.

It will be unfortunate if The Star-Ledger cannot continue. Not so much for the reporting, but for what it represents--New Jersey. With demise of State newspapers, we will become a media corridor state.

Here's a good source for what may separate "journalists" and "bloggers."

Whether or not you think B-net is "real journalism" let's not lose site of the fact that many of the people who are losing their jobs at the Star Ledger are our neighbors and friends. Carol (in the pajamas) is a Montclair resident, and a wonderful person, who is being impacted by the layoffs. If you were in hers shoes, you might also interpret Deb's comments as condescending. The "I hope the Star Ledger stays around because I like to link to their stories" comment is particularly flippant.

This topic might be fun and games as usual for the posters here, but remember that the people at the Star Ledger who are being impacted are real people with real families. And they are our neighbors and friends. If those that run this site are truly committed to supporting our community, they might consider being a little bit more understanding and a little bit less obnoxious.

Here?s my two cents on the whole thing.

When local news breaks here in Baristaville, it is very well covered. The most recent example is the tragic shooting at the YMCA. This blog, I believe ,was the first media outlet to break the story and was the first to name the suspect. I recall that Annette filed live updates from the crime scene and there were photos, too. This blog also featured a video of the press conference held by the DA shot by Baristanet. How is this not the work of ?real journalists??

During a recent spring storm this blog had news reports of those impacted, including eye witness testimony and interviews with those who had damage to their houses. The blog also reported on power outages, etc.

During the recent election, again it was the Baristanet providing ?live blog coverage? with photos of election count night. It was the first media outlet to name Jerry Fried as the new Mayor.

Then there was the coverage of Asbestos Gate ? with interviews with key participants as well as coverage of meetings with parents.

You can go back several years and read about exploding man hole covers, a microburst, manhunts for suspects and any number of breaking news stories involving bank robberies, hold ups, car chases, manhunts etc. Then there?s the light stuff, including live coverage of the Sopranos last episode filmed at Holstein?s -- including video!!.

I don?t think for a second any reader here expects Deb, Liz or Annette to be down in Trenton covering state politics, although from my reading of the blog they do make regular trips to the Montclair PD to read police reports.

Baritas, keep up the good work!

Agreed, Church Streeter. First of all, Baristanet does not have the staff or budget of a large conglomerate like the S-L. How can you compare the two? You really can't. I think Baristanet does a fine job with the local news. If something happens at 3 PM in Montclair, for example, you have to wait until the next day to read it in the Ledger (or buy a late edition if it's available). This goes for the Ledger online as well. Baristanet is on the scene within the hour.

Church Streeter, the Baristas, with coverage of such things as exploding manhole covers and the filming of the last episode of "The Sopranos," are at best equivalents of "human interest stuff" on the nightly news. Kind of like Lisa Evers and Linda Schmidt and others like them. But it's not serious, in depth digging.

If that fills your boat, so be it. The Star-Ledger offers something more, a great deal more. But if it's put up for sale, the question remains, to whom exactly? I suspect there'll be few suitors save the worst sort of newspaper industry carrion-pickers, someone like Scudder-Singleton. And from where will the Baristas "borrow" in the future? (Really, is Phil Read all that generous?)

As for Spicoli who suggested that Ledger staffers are our "friends and neighbors" and we should then cluck sympathetically if they lose their jobs, well, yes, we probably should. But they've also had a very long, good ride, one which began with the Ledger's own obvious schadenfreude over the demise of the Newark News (and also the Elizabeth daily and a few others). What goes around comes around, and it is also true that the Ledger has milked NJ for every dime for an awfully long time, in the process growing lazy and distinctly short on real enterprise.

Perhaps, then, Spicoli, you might try urging some of your own friends and neighbors who work for the Ledger to take those buyouts, so that others may survive. Barring that, no, it likely won't.

Baristanet scooped the Montclair Times website by a full day, I believe, when Kenneth Duckett was apprehended.

Print journalism is in a tough place these days with so much on-line competition. I stay more current (for national news) by reading the AOL News Page than via any
newspaper. But I'd still miss the Ledger if it wasn't there any more. Kind of like an old friend in the driveway every morning.

And Mrs. Martta, would you rather have a slapdash report full of "immediacy" but also possibly racked with inaccuracies and a decided lack of context, or a better, more objective look at something the next morning?

This is a debate that many newspaper readers, current and former alike, have with themselves daily. A related question is whether or not the likes of this site would in fact take it upon themselves to improve its coverage and reporting (as best they could) if they no longer had local newspapers like the Ledger from which to borrow in the first place.

For me, the Ledger remains sloppily produced, reeking of arrogance. That its many writers and editors cannot distinguish between the proper use of "its" and "it's" alone establishes this, and apparently not even Jim Willse cares enough to spark improvement here. Yet you talk to old newspaper vets from the heady days of the Daily Mirror, Journal-American, Herald Tribune, bustling wire services and even one friend who once wrote for the Daily Worker, copy editing once meant something, was taken as a serious craft by its practitioners and aroused fear and loathing and also great respect in mere reporters.

Here's MY two cents on the whole thing.

When I worked for the Star Ledger back in the early 70's, even back then there were constant warnings from upper management about cost cutting and layoffs. As more and more employess were let go, instead of hiring replacements we were told to take up the slack, and within a couple of years I was pretty much doing the work of two. I never objected. Maybe it was because of my love for real journalism. Perhaps I just considered myself lucky to have a job working for what all of us considered far and away the best newspaper in New Jersey. Needless to say, eventually more budget cuts were necessary and one day I got the call I had dreaded for years--but in the back of my mind knew was inevitable. I can still remember it like it was yesterday. I was escorted in to a big fancy office and told to sit down. Then some executive I never before met walked in, sat down beside me, and broke the news: my paper route was being taken away. Apparently, my Schwinn 3-speed wasn't cutting it, and my route was being taken over by some college dropout with his own station wagon. At the time, I was devastated. I thought about going to work for the Daily Journal, but I knew their days were numbered too. Looking back, I really do miss my days as a real journalist. I can only hope that my former colleagues at the Star-Ledger who still remain are met a better fate.

Speaking of real journalists, the following line was in the July 24-31 Police Briefs in the Montclair Times:

"The majority of the burglaries have occurred during the night and the daytime hours, Carlucci stated."

Thanks for narrowing that down, Carlucci
------------------------
I dated a guy many years ago who was an editor at the Star-Ledger. He told me they instituted a paper-wide policy to use the term African-American instead of Black. Certainly nothing wrong wtih that but apparently they executed some kind of "Search and Replace" function that left a few companies in the Business Section operating in the "African American." So much for proofreading. But I shouldn't make fun--A newspaper I worked for had the Mayor of Bloomingdale making a "PUBIC" comment, and in a headline right on the front page, no less.

LOL, that is TOO funny, Nellie.

GreyPoupon, I don't have much time to respond... but that's OK, since you basically proved my point in your own post.

The corporate music industry has changed a great deal since the era of the artists you mentioned. Can you think of any pop artists on major labels today who attain the heights of those you mentioned in your last post? I can't. Majors today give their primary support to music that's the equivalent of junk food. Goes down easy, entertaining for a moment, no staying power.

Many of the high-quality artists with lasting careers who used to be on majors have gone indie now because it's financially and artistically advantageous for them to do so. And I'm sorry you find no indie artists whose work goes beyond 'demo quality,' because great, innovative music from across the globe is more accessible today than it has ever been before.

You remind me of people who constantly say they're 'bored.' When I hear someone say that, I think they must be boring themselves. It's too bad you can't enjoy the wide variety of good and great music out there; you're really missing out.

PS: Grey, re the other thread, I certainly don't claim to be a guitar expert; my expertise is on other instruments. But I do know that playing a beautiful instrument is a joy.

Given the opportunity to play a fine piece of gear or a beater at an outdoor concert in good weather, I'd go with my fine instrument every time. My objection with what you wrote about the woman who performed was your condescending tone. I'm not too big into the kids' music scene, but I'm pretty sure she is a national act, so it seems reasonable that she'd have some nice gear.

Have a nice day.

Rebecca said her guitar was a gift. Somebody really, really loves her!

Grey,

The only SG's I've ever heard of are the Standards and Customs, then you got your Epiphone versions too. I had a Cherry Mahogany standard 27 years ago and lent it to a friend down on his luck. He never returned it but if he had, I bet it would be worth a bundle now. Darn.

Kate, thank you for wishing me a heartfelt nice day. I love these little chats of ours.

I didn't prove your point about the music industry though. The internet has been taking money away from the recording industry for well over a decade at this point. That's why you have no artist development and a factor in why we have no great new acts. The industry was cutting back already but Napster just shot it in the heart. And the cheap bubblegum pop music you seem to think is new to the industry has been around since forever. That's always going to be there. I even like some of it. The problem is there are no important new acts. You seem to think they are on indy labels. So I ask, where are they? Name some that can compare to the pre-internet ones I named. I have heard young people lament that their generation's music isn't as good as, say, Led Zeppelin. They are right. So, it's not just me noticing this.

Then you imagine I'm one of those boredom complainers. Can we stick to reality please? I am neither bored nor boring. I just have good taste. ;-> Some people are entertained by the rhythmic scratching of a record needle. What a snob I am for not being one of them.

As for Ms. Frezza, I have nothing against her. She's quite the MILF. I merely suggest it feels like overkill when she's playing a guitar that costs more than what Springeteen or Clapton or Page manage to make a living with. So, we now hear she got it as a gift. Good for her.

Mellon,
There are numerous SG's at any given time. Mine is a short lived Firebrand Deluxe version made in the late 70's early 80s but basically what the faded is today, a no frills SG. Nice mahogany body. No paint, just the finished wood.

I say track down your "friend" with a Google search and nab that SG back!

Everything SG

Mr. Pou(pon),

RE-reading this post, you sound like a really old bitter parent.

The same ones who screamed about Elvis, the Beatles and Nirvana and now Rap...

Alas, good music is still being made. It's just that you are too old to love it.

It happens.

As you get older you're supposed to cling to the music of your youth and the kids today are suppose to laugh at you.

Why, I think there's even a hit song about this: The Circle of Life.

(But listen the 107.1 the Peak and you'll find some great new music friend.)

Finally, while we rightly hold the Beatles in high regard, let's not act like they were not teeny-bopper, bubble gum pop when they started.
(Boomers love acting like the Beatles began with Sgt. Peppers and not "She loves you YEA, YEA, YEA...")

poopwilliams, you are wrong about me and The Beatles. Most would place their more mature period starting with Rubber Soul.

Please don't tell me a radio station. Name me some of these "great" new artists.

Hey, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the Jonas Brothers will turn out to be as good as Hanson.

OK, I like John Mayer. There's one. But will he be another Paul Simon or even Shawn Colvin?

He also has a record deal and is not a self-published internet artist.

Ugh.... Ok, Pou, here are some folks who are great...

And yes, I would certainly include John Mayer...

(And this is just a rock-centered list)

Radiohead
Death Cab for Cutie
Duffy
Snow Patrol
Ray LaMontagne
My Morning Jacket
Modest Mouse
Aimee Mann
Spoon

(Why go on... But you probably like being the old guy at the club screaming about the bad music, "back in my day we had REAL music, with MELODY!!!!....")

Aimee Mann? Dude, she's from the 80's! Radiohead is 15 years old already. Why not list No Doubt, Garbage, and Guns 'n' Roses? See, even you are having a hard time naming NEW groups that measure up. Not that any of those do.

There are two distinct points:

POINT ONE - Do any of them inspire the same following U2 had at the same point in their careers? These acts are all fine, but that's about it. They are like the Cheap Tricks or The cars of yesteryear. They had hits, they were good enough, but you wouldn't go to the wall for them like you would The Rolling Stones, The Who, Pink Floyd, Yes, Led Zeppelin, The Beatles. Where are the supergroups? What new song is the equivalent of Stairway to Heaven? Bohemian Rhapsody? Hey Jude? Yeah, I like Death Cab For Cutie ok but in a Blood Sweat and Tears kind of way. Good but not up to the supergroups level. My Morning Jacket? Meh. Duffy? Is she the next Amy Winehouse? Both of whom are borrowing an old 60's style BTW. But aside from personal taste, and more to the point of this discussion...

POINT TWO - How many of them are internet published groups without "corporate" record deals? How many of the internet bands are as good as the ones you named which have record deals with major labels?

Hum?

This whole stink started because I challenged the notion that the internet has provided us with more great music than ever before despite the record companies.

------------------------------

"This is almost like when napster was around and the record companies tried to scare us with: NO ONE WILL MAKE MUSIC AGAIN....
And now we have more music than ever before.

We do? Is it any good? 'Cause 99.9% of the internet artists I hear are the crap losers who weren't good enough to make it through the record companies' screening process. You know, like Spitzer's hooker. All this "extra" music is nothing but the record companies' reject bin."

-----------------------------
All the artists you mentioned are on major record labels. I'm seeing names like Universal. A&M, Mercury, RCA, etc.

Btw, you have old parent taste in your "rock-centered list." Some of those people make Nora Jones sound like The Clash. ;->

Mr. Pou,

You seem to be moving the goal posts....

This "thing" started because I said:

"This is almost like when napster was around and the record companies tried to scare us with: NO ONE WILL MAKE MUSIC AGAIN....

And now we have more music than ever before..."

You however, have turned this into an argument about whether there is any GREAT music today.... distributed over the internet.... without corporate entanglements..... that compares to U2...

Um.... Whatever dude...

Two very different arguments.

I don't know who will be around and have careers like U2--- I didn't think they'd be as big after GLORIA either (though, I'm sure you'll claim that you heard something in the lads that told you they'd be the biggest band in the world.)

And frankly, I don't know if U2 came out today if they would be the U2 we love. (You can see me in the LA street scene in the "Streets Have no name video"!)

My simple point remains, there is more music (some great, some good, some very bad) around today than ever before.

And this happened when the record companies lost control and the means of creation and distribution have been handed to the people.

Kinda like Baristanet.

Oh and Pou,

If your response to Aimee Mann is "she's from the 80's" you haven't been paying attention.

And you were very quiet on the others on that list.......

Perhaps you should rock yourself to sleep in a corner, with your headphones on listening to Rubber Soul.

Me, I'll put on MMJ's "I'm Amazed".....

Wow, profwilliams, you are the emotionally retarded little one aren't you. You lose an argument so you pretend I moved the goalposts. How very Republican of you. As I pointed out there were two separate issues that emerged. You said there is more music because of Napster and the decline of the record companies as if that was a good thing. (I can't believe you are so dense and dishonest that I have to explain to you the conversation we just had.) I challenged by asking if this "more" music was any good. That the non-record company internet stuff was the reject pile. It's not really more, it's just that you are now able to hear all the rejected demo material that always existed.

Then Kate chimed in insisting the record companies did not choose the cream of the crop. And I explained why she was wrong and how music was better (great) when they were more powerful because they filtered out the best talent and nurtured those artists, a process missing from the do-it-yourself internet, and I used Eliot Spitzer's hooker as an example of an unsigned internet musician. Kate later insisted there was great new music out there but I couldn't find it. So, I'm defending the music industry while you two ignoramuses are condemning it.

Then you start naming all these "new" acts that are by your estimation, "great," a term I used for the best supergroups of the past, pre-Napster,"corporate" era. But the bands you name are on established, old record labels. Doh! And some of them aren't new but 15 to 20 years old -- pre-Napster! They aren't even examples of what you described as "the record companies lost control and the means of creation and distribution have been handed to the people." LOL What a putz, you are.

Oh, then you accuse me of only mentioning Aimee Mann and being quiet on the others on the list. Er... I said more about Death Cab For Cutie, My Morning Jacket, Duffy (even threw in Amy Winehouse) than I did about Mann.

Stop drunk posting, you silly person, or I'll send Barack Obama over to your place to give you a reach-around.

Oh man, I love you guys calling each other Pou and poopwilliams. I'm a young person and I think music really turned into crap in the last 10 years. Perhaps it's been crap for the past 20 or 30 years to some people, but there are bands whose albums from 10 years ago are 100% better than what they're putting out today. Too bad :(

GP, while you were pissing in the snow with Prof, I was out hearing live music tonight. I went to the Eddie Vedder concert at NJPAC. Eddie's set didn't do much for me. But his opening act, Liam Finn (an indie) made my nipples hard. Experimental, weird, high-energy, innovative, fantastic.

Last week, I was in Austin, TX. Going out on regular, non-SXSW nights, I heard no fewer than 3 terrific local acts. The Murdocks (bratty punky power pop), Atash (world-class musicians fusing Indian, Persian, and west African traditions), and a singer-songwriter named Kasey Crowley.

A few major-label acts that move me: Paul Simon. Randy Newman. Patty Griffin. Regina Spektor. Jurassic 5. Tori Amos. Alice Smith.

A few indie acts that move me: People Under the Stairs. Mieka Pauley. Sleepybird. Robert Pollard. Julia Brown. Steve Tannen. Neutral Milk Hotel (RIP).

That's just a few off the top of my head. And that's just pop--leaving aside the legions of blues, jazz, and so-called world music artists who bring joy into my world.

People invest in different things, Grey. You're invested in the idea that great pop music is 40 years in the past. I'm invested in delight.

I'm sure you get something out of your approach--it very clearly gives you a sense of superiority over the likes of me. Ignorant me, going out and enjoying live music several times a week. Ignorant me, listening to my iPod on the subway and grinning ear to ear. Ignorant me, sampling every program on WFMU and discovering an abundance of riches each week. Ignorant me, dancing for hours with my friends to Congolese or Arabic music until I'm too tired to stand. Ignorant me, writing and performing music that moves people and, yeah, having them write notes on my web page telling me I rock.

Yup, I must be ignorant or something. Your way sounds like a whooooole lot of fun. Enjoy.

I wouldn't ever call you ignorant, katie. But I would like to suggest, given your investment in delight, that you sometime add to your playlist the composers Arvo Part, John Tavener and Kryztof Penderecki (they'll make those cross-country hours go by, you betcha), and also, for the simple fun of it, Lyle Lovett (whom most people know better as Julia Roberts' ex-husband), Alan Jackson and the incomparable George Strait. All are genuine talents, which is not something I'd probably say about groups like My Morning Jacket and Death Cab For Cutie (both of which seem more distinguished by their weird-sounding names than genuine ability).

Your personal playlist doesn't have to be stuck in a sort of modern, angsty rock groove, in other words. Even listening to the Rolling Stones and the pre-breakup Beatles was once just a heck of a lot of uncomplicated fun.

Hey, Cathar--

You do realize that I am not katie, right? I'm Kate.

My list isn't exactly angsty! :) That said, I always enjoy checking out music I've not been exposed to. I'm a *huge* Lyle fan, have had the pleasure of seeing him live several times. I am familiar with some of Arvo Part's work and some Gorecki, but not the others you mentioned--I'll look them up.

In my last post I didn't even touch on classical music, which was my starting point as a performer. Cathar, do you know "The Lark Ascending" by Vaughan-Williams? I love the sublime simplicity of that piece. It's beautiful; I hope you'll listen if you don't know it.

pou,

Your quick move to personal attacks tells me all I need to know.

So go on, call me evil names: dense, dumb and the worst: republican (clearly you haven't paid too much attention to my posts here-- being against Obama doesn't make one a Repub.... But don't let facts get in your way...).

And what to make of your amazingly crude offer of having The Chosen One to perform a sex act????

Know this: your tone here says more about you than your silly opinions.

Rock on Wayne!

And katie, a sure sign of age is any comment about how bad music is now compared to when you were a kid...

So while some of the music that my students LOVE leaves me cold, I'm not arrogant enough to call it bad--- I see them smiling laughing, crying and losing themselves in music and I realize music is doing its job.

Again, all the great popular music of the past was hated by parents and old folks. That's how it's supposed to be.

It's hard to rebel when your folks are dancing and loving the same music as you (which may explain why I have such disdain for "kids" or "family" music.)

Oh, well. I'm sure pou will lend you some GREAT music from his AWESOME collection of hits from the 50's, 60's, and 70's--- nothing later because NO good music was made after disco killed the rock star. (You have a record player, right?)

Or just tune into WCBS.....

I kinda got stuck in the 80s. Of course, I love the classic rock from 60s and 70s but I went apoplectic when disco arrived on the scene and brought with it sequin, shiny fabrics and posers. Then came the 80s, with groups like Flock of Seagulls, Soft Cell, the Clash, the Sex Pistols, Haysi Fantazy, The Dead Boys, Dead Kennedys, They Might Be Giants, the list goes on and on. I felt reborn, in a musical sense. That being said, I agree with Katie that there's not a hell of a lot of music I've liked in the last decade or so. But I try to be open-minded.

A poster above rebuked online music. I think it's like any other outlet: some sucks, some is wonderful. A lot of bands would never get heard if it wasn't for the Internet. There's a new kind of music out that I like called "trance" music, groups like Shpongle and Infected Mushroom. Not really mainstream but it does have a following.

Great show at Trumpets last night. Michaele on vocals, Gil Parris on guitar, Marion Meadows on sax.

Kate, how did you find NJPAC as a venue? Never been there, but I heard the parking is good!

Personally, I'm a sucker for anything with a hook, regardless of the genre or decade.

Banana, NJPAC is *amazing*--you should go post-haste!

It's a truly beautiful venue with very nice acoustics. Last night, Eddie Vedder (who's likely seen a few venues in his day) couldn't stop marveling at how gorgeous it was.

Parking is a breeze there. Thursday nights there is a free outdoor concert series, which last night featured 3 groups (jazz, something I missed, and reggae) including Winard Harper--who's quite a well known jazz drummer. There were so many people there having a great time, and the vibe was really warm and friendly.

They have a really diverse set of offerings--can't recommend it highly enough!

Wire and Neu are classic rock for me. Jimi Hendrix is on a par with Paganini. Led Zeppelin is like Stravinsky. New groups that I enjoy include Dr. Dog, Haunted Graffiti, Lake, Final Fantasy, Interpol, Matmos, and Ted Leo to name a smattering. There's nothing like WFMU and they're having their Radio Greats spectacular this weekend in celebration of their 50th anniversary.

I read the newspaper every day. Have done since I was a kid but I check the news on the net too. There is a dearth of real investigative journalism anywhere. It seems that most news these days is culled from press releases that are rarely fact-checked. Shame.

Prof, while it does seem that the older one is, the worse the current music seems, that doesn't mean that the music doesn't suck.

And as far as it being related to being "old", while it is true that I am pretty old now, my favorite music is from the 60's, the decade I was born in.

Believe it or not, I can still remember when "(I can't get no) Satisfaction" came out, I used to make my mom play it on the Jukebox. It's not that I developed my musical taste at 4, it's that "Satisfaction" is a kick-ass song, and while there are other songs I like better, there hasn't been a song even nearly as good as "Satisfaction" released in decades.

It's not that I've closed my mind to the possibility of it, quite the contrary, I'd love to add some new songs to my ipod, but we're averaging about 2 ipod-worthy songs a year. 2 good songs - that's an average day in 1967.

Kate, why don't you post a link to your music, I'll give it a spin.

Katie, good luck on your trip!

Trivia: Death Cab For Cutie took their name from the title of a song by the legendary Bonzo Dog Band (who, from what I've heard, were much more interesting than the newfangled outfit).

THe Net didn't destroy the record companies, their lack of vision & refusal to incorporate it into their business & futile reptilian reactionary attempts to squash it sealed their own fate.

Yep, it's a cryin' shame that there's no contemporary Ahmet Ertegun on the scene. Maybe the landscape has changed too much. Maybe he was a unique product of unique times. Maybe he'll be reincarnated. Shine on.

Oh poop, yet another typical Republican tactic you use: accuse your opponent of what you are doing and hope no one will notice and that you sound strong and morally superior. You start the personal insults and then pretend that because I return them that I started it and it reveals something negative about my character. So, what does doing that reveal about your character? That you are a dishonest tool! Kate calls me ignorant and then goes on a rant about how I unfairly believe she's ignorant. At least Kate is genuinely misunderstanding me but you are obfuscating things on purpose, poop.

To both of you, for the last time, I am not living in the past and it's not a generational thing. I explained that. I illustrated familiarity with many of the new acts you mentioned and explained that I like some of them. Why can't you comprehend what you read? You keep insisting on this incorrect notion that I only like old because you have no argument otherwise.

The generational argument is yours, kids. My argument is that the record companies are not bad and that internet "democratization" is not making music better. You have no argument to that so you pretend I only like 40 year old music because I point out that when the record companies had more power the music was better. Neither of you can name a single recent act that is as popular as the supergroups I mentioned. Look, I'll show you a picture. Here's a 20-something girl wearing a Led Zeppelin shirt.

zep-t

According to you she should hate that old music because of generational prejudice and yet, those records, PRODUCED AT THE HEIGHT OF RECORD COMPANY INFLUENCE AND BEFORE THE INTERNET, are still being enjoyed today by people who weren't even born at the time. You can't even win your own argument that it's generational. lol

I think you folks who think the internet acts are just as good as record company acts are either unaware that the acts you like ARE on record labels (as poopwilliams illustrated) and are not internet self-published acts and/or you really haven't heard much unsigned stuff.

Because of Napster and music theft on the internet, record companies, even smaller independent labels, have trouble justifying the expense of nurturing artists. Hence, the artists are left on their own without professional guidance and will not likely develop the chops their predecessors did. It's not about generational music style.

Geez, even the audio quality is worse now because of the internet since you're listening to compressed files through earbuds.

The internet has many positive features. Quality is not it's strength.

And Baristanet, much as I enjoy it, can't hold a candle to the Star-Ledger.

And Oasis is not The Beatles.

doyouhavetoomuchtimeonyourhands? :)

Thanks, Kate, I'll definitely have to check the place out. And, yes, a link to your music, plase!

THe Net didn't destroy the record companies, their lack of vision & refusal to incorporate it into their business & futile reptilian reactionary attempts to squash it sealed their own fate.

A popular though faulty belief. No one could have seen Napster coming. Hell, no one saw the internet coming. That's not the record companies' fault. They didn't immediately respond by selling music files because they respect copyright and the legal contracts designed to -- horrors! -- ensure their artists get paid. It's not an overnight job to negotiate for hundreds of acts.

So years later we got iTunes but even it accounts for (last I heard) about 1-2% of all music downloaded, the rest being stolen.

It's not the record companies' fault their music is being stolen because the audience feels they are entitled to it and have no idea of the hard work and expense that goes into it.

As the infrastructure goes so goes the quality. We have pro-internet posters here admitting they don't like the music of the past 10 years very much. Funny how that's about when Napster showed up.

doyouhavetoomuchtimeonyourhands? :)

Ah, more reasoned argument instead of personal attacks. That's internet quality wit!

I think Death Cab for Cutie's "I Will Possess Your Heart" is pretty cool. I love the extended intro.

dyhagp, obliviously you have no sense of humor if you think banana split's remark was a personal attack.

That listening to music produced before you were born = no new quality music and it's because that music was produced before the advent of the internet is just a red herring at best. Classical music would be the first example that record companies had nothing to with all that's great, along with folk (from around the world), blues and any other genre that was performing music prior to the invention of electricity.
Record companies were he first to bring the music to the general populace and evolved (as these things do) into a talent network and support group. At it's best it fostered many great stars, at it's worst it stifled many great acts (business is business).
The internet is just the next wave still in it's infancy (maybe adolescence) and will evolve to allow those performers who are exceptional to rise to the top and I'm sure, the support groups with it.
You sound like a bitter record exec that's been downsized who's trying to prove it's everyone elses fault.

Hmm, I posted a link to my sites but it was 'held by owner.' Maybe I've been censored! That would be hot.

Hopefully it will show up at some point. Thanks for your interest, Carl and Banana.

Hmm, I posted a link to my sites but it was 'held by owner.' Maybe I've been censored! That would be hot.

Hopefully it will show up at some point. Thanks for your interest, Carl and Banana.

Kate,

I've had the same problem, this site only permits one link per comment, if you do more than one, you get that message and the post just disappears into the ether.

Post them one per comment, and that should work fine, or just post the text, most folks can do the rest.

Thanks for the tip, Carl!

I'll leave out the part of my disappeared comment that was continuing my pissing contest with GP. Suffice it to say that in my mind, popular does not equal good, bad, or great. Perhaps we just fundamentally disagree on that point.

Anyway... my online properties are in slight disarray because I've been neglecting them in favor of the album I'm working on. But with that disclaimer in mind, here are a few links (I've omitted the HTML coding so the post doesn't get booted again):

www.sonicbids.com/kateevans
www.myspace.com/kateevans
www.kateweb.com

The digital music format is convenient, but can't match the sound quality of a good, or even not so good, vinyl recording.

Whenever I listen to one of my old LPs, I marvel at how present it sounds. CD/MP3/etc.. can't match the quality.

Thanks, Kate, I'll give it a listen!

MB, I agree, but I think that at least part of that is just because that's what we grew up with. The quality also depends on the method you use. I use .ape at work (and I'll be switching to it at home as soon as I get around to it), and it's much better than .mp3/4.

It also depends on the rip, Yesterday, I had the pleasure of going to Mr. Dino's with my son, on the way home, "Live for Today" came up on my car radio from my ipod , and the sound quality was pretty good, although not as good as vinyl (I had ripped it to .mp3 (from a WCBS Greatest Hits CD as I recall) and then loaded it in itunes - yes, I know I'm feeding The Borg, but it was a gift).

Speaking of that, when "Live for Today" came up, my son said "I love this song." Unbeknownst to him, I was about to skip it - I've just heard it so many times - instead, we listened to it together, and, of course, he's right, it is a fantastic song by an underrated group (The Grass Roots), I just needed to hear it again with a fresh perspective.

So I don't know what all that says about this discussion, the two of us driving down Ridgewood listening to a great song that came out 21 years before he was born and when I was 6, but I'd say it says that there is something sorely lacking in today's music. I'm not biased against new music, I'm played-out on a lot of the old music and I'd love for there to be something new out that was better, or even half as good. But just wanting something to be better doesn't make it so.

The downhill slide began a long time ago, so I'm not going to blame the internet (although I'm sure it didn't help). I remember when Angie came out, I was among those lamenting the "downfall of the Stones" (shows what I know - I've actually grown to love the song - probably a bit of sentiment in that though, '73 was a great, crazy year for me). Maybe it's just that we got lucky in the 60's, and the pendulum has now swung back to the norm.

Jeez, this is a &*%$#@% novella, I guess I've been in Baristaville too long!

The Grass Roots! I have about 5 of their songs on my iPod. One of my fave underrated groups.

The John Milner character played by Paul LeMat (the rare actor who's also a bona fide Nam vet!!!) makes an apt comment: "Rock 'n' roll's been going downhill ever since Buddy Holly died."

It is sort of ever thus.

Yes, however, to the Grass Roots. Anyone else remember when they were P.F. Sloan's backup band?

My own greatest musical memory may be wandering through Macy's on a spring Friday afternoon. And who was playing on a juryrigged stage in the luggage dept. but Buck Owens and the Buckaroos back when they still included Don Rich and Tom Brumley? Saw the last half of the first set, bought what I'd came there for and saw the entire second set. Then we few 20 or so people standing in attendance were all invited to a buffet meal with Buck and the boys. It was for some anniversary of Macy's and it was certainly an odd booking for Macy's at any time. But I still think back fondly on that moment as when I really knew I loved country music, and Buck Owens spilled shrimp dip on my windbreaker while making a point about the "Bakersfield sound."

I just went to one of your web sites, kate, and can only wish you well in your career and cd sales. Won't be around for that benefit you're doing (anyway, benefits kind of make me groan for all the good intentions) but will check now and then to see where else you're playing. I'm sure it'll be well worth it.

My own current favorite female singer is Alison Moyet, but I also found her return as part of "Yaz" a few weeks ago mightily disappointing.

Thanks, Cathar--I appreciate that.

Great story about Buck Owens! Did you keep the windbreaker as a keepsake?

I LOVED Hee Haw as a kid. I even had corduroy Hee Haw pants. (Hey, I lived in the sticks then. It was considered normal...)

Carl, we can agree to disagree about the state of music today vs in the 60s. I agree that there was great music then; the soul music from that era has been a huge influence on me musically.

But I don't think that negates the possibility that there's also good/great music now. I do think it's quite natural for many people that positive associations with early experiences imbue music from adolescence with a patina that makes it difficult for us to attain the same heights of adoration later in life.

Re your experience with your son, why not keep an open mind and draw the conclusion that you both enjoyed some terrific music from the past, instead of concluding that music today is no good? It just makes me sad for people who are missing out on good modern stuff.

Seriously, Mojo and Performing Songwriter magazines and WFMU (91.1 fm) are all really good sources for new music.

The evil internet(s) done stole my watch!!!!

Kate, Great songs. Thanks for giving me 15 mins. of joy. Although I must admit, I now need to listen to something more upbeat;)

Did you accompany yourself on those tracks live, or was it dubbed?

And thanks for your point at 4:17 re: adolescence is well taken. I fear, though, that some here will still believe otherwise.

Thanks, Prof, for the kind comments on my songs. Do you know which tracks you listened to? Some of the material on my site was recorded live and some was tracked. In most cases, I'm singing and playing piano and flute (except for the jazz quartet recording, in which the fine pianist Eli Yamin was holding down the piano chair).

My adolescence wasn't so rosy; it sucked at the time, but perhaps it's allowed me a life of maintaining an open mind about music, since there's no golden patina on the stuff I heard back then. (Although I do still have a soft spot for Run DMC, the Beastie Boys, and the Femmes.) :)

Today everybody's writing about the death of Bernie Mac.

It took a Star-Ledger reporter to tell l">the story of his life.