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We're here at Fitzgerald's for the Palin-Biden debate. Watch the festivities from your home and start your comments!
By the way, Fox Channel 5 has been here all night, shooting footage of our party. So catch us tonight on the local news.
Photo: Michael Reitman
Biden for President! Well, at least he seems in command of this debate ...
"Rear that head of abuse"
AAAAAHHHHHHHRRRRRGGGGGGG!!!!!!
Palin: "its a toxic mess." Did she just get done reading Newsweek?
No, she just got done reading her crib notes.
Oh, how I wish there was a gong on that stage....
Palin on climate change: "We have to deal with climate change because we have to deal with climate change." I think she also tried to suggest the Earth is heating itself to extinction.
"I cant answer that question because it wasnt on the list of answers that I memorized... but I'll get back to you!"
Biden: nice bonus points for offering solution to China's pollution (exporting US clean coal to China). Palin wonders where China is, and why they need clean coal ...
I see a senator worthy of being president, and I see a PTA president worthy of chairing the prom committee. I can't believe voters think Palin inspires confidence in the senate and congress and with world leaders that she can fulfill her duties as a vice president and be ready to be president at moment's notice.
Palin is not even in the same league as Biden, she's not even in the same universe.
Now she claims that it was only a lame attempt at a joke when she said she didn't know what the Vice President.
Yeah, sure.
Did she just say that she has never had to compromise since she was able to compromise?
Biden wins on points but Palin beat the spread.
Doggone it, I knew you liberals would back Biden up. You betcha!
I am very glad that Biden didn't Muskie on us. I thought he would for a moment.
In the meantime, I have to say that she is one very good-looking woman.
Biden, on the other hand -- with those wings coming out the side of his head -- looked like Lord Baird in the Star Chamber.
Nov. 4 can't come soon enough.
By the way, I strongly suggest that the "feed" from Fitzgerald's be piped to Guantanamo, as it would surely make those bastards crack within minutes.
Biden demonstrated a commanding knowledge of policy and issues.
Palin demonstrated a commanding memory for cliches and catch phrases.
Thank you Baristanet for a delightful evening! We enjoyed the company, drink, and food. Even the debate wasn't terrible! But couldn't you have gotten a respectable network to film the party?
Wally
"Biden, on the other hand -- with those wings coming out the side of his head -- looked like Lord Baird in the Star Chamber." - cro you almost made me snarf my ice cream
but really, wtf is with o'biden's eye brows?
SSP is right. Palin totally beat the spread, don'tcha know.
FOX NEWS?????????????? omg,
You've sold your souls, Baristanet.
Oh, part of my arm made the photo--I'm famous!
I'll repeat what I said to the Montclair Times reporter: she did better than many expected her to do, but Biden was still clearly better. Thanks for the free booze and party. With the exception of the 10 mins of sound and visuals not synching on the tv, it was a good time.
Cowardly Cather, you didn't show. No one should every read another word you have to say. There is no bravery behind your words.
Did I hear right last night, did Biden say "Bosniacs"?
Madam and Mr Barista,
My wife and I appreciated your hospitality. Its a blast being a part of your Community.
I still can't believe Laserdoodle was wearing a red shirt
Yes you did monongahela. Because Bosniak is actually a word. In fact, they make up the majority of the population of Bosnia and Herzegovina. But don't take my word for it. Refer to the US State Department.
It's humorous that last night could even be considered a debate. Biden answered every question thoroughly and accurately and Palin filled the air with words.
It's absurd that a man of Biden's stature and accomplishments even has to share a stage with Caribou Barbie. You betcha! You betcha! Jesus Christ, she's 3 tail feathers away from being Foghorn Leghorn.
I bet there were lots of winners playing Palin Bingo last night.
I feel more confident in Joe Biden after last night.
Ice, the shirt was orange. You can see the color orange, can't you?
So sorry we couldn't be there. DH had something to do right after work. Looks like we missed a great time.
That being said, we watched from the comfort of our living room and I have to say that we both thought that Sarah Palin did a good job. Yes, there were a couple gaffes, mispronuniciations and such but nothing major league. I thought that she came across less "canned" than Biden. She spoke from the gut. Also, she looked relaxed (but I bet she was churning inside); I didn't see a lot of searching around for the right word, no "ahs" or "uhs." I give her a B+.
However, the big question remains: Who won the Sarah Palin lookalike contest?
Gotta give Palin some credit for last night. At least she had the good sense not to wear an orange shirt.
According to Peggy Noonan, Palin "killed" last night.
Sigh.
Everyone's gonna see what they want to see. Same as it ever was.
Oh, & I'm real tired of would-be mavericks who constantly call themselves mavericks. Real mavericks don't have to do that.
Perhaps it was an orange jumpsuit and not an orange shirt. I would check to see if there've been any prison breaks in the last 48 hours.
Thanks Danny, I thought Biden had misspoke.
Learn something new everyday here on Baristanet!
The reason she didn't falter is because she barely answered the questions posed. She has been training for the last month for this.
"Okay now Sarah, if they give you a question you don't feel comfortable with just answer a different question you do feel comfortable with. If they bring up the fact that you're avoiding the question, tell them it's too important a topic to avoid, also remember to say doggonit"
Palin set the bar for herself so low it was practially on the ground.
"Oh, & I'm real tired of would-be mavericks who constantly call themselves mavericks. Real mavericks don't have to do that."
Thank you for seeing this too. It's like going around telling people you think your pretty. I guess these guys think if they say the word "Maverick" enough, eventually Websters will redefine the the defintion to mean "John McCain & Sarah Palin". WTF? This whole Maverick thing is only selling to a small crowd here in the US. Outside of these walls, people are laughing at the "Mavericks"
2)
I don't define either candidate as a "maverick." Honestly, I really do see a lot of new ideas, risk-taking from either side. It's the same 'ol, same 'ol.
Lasernumbnut, you despicable little jerk, believe it or not, some of us actually had prior engagements. It was Pitt over USF, 26-21, by the way. Besides, by not being in your presence I avoid the necessity for both the sheep dip and the tetanus shot the following day.
Did you make new friends, mikey? Did you set up some playdates for yourself? It's probably the sole social engagement you've had for years in any case. I doubt very much your dance card is ever filled up. (Well, maybe it is if you bring enough $20's to "Titillations" on a slow night, but otherwise, no.)
Honestly, you brainless twerp, if you equate "bravery" with being in the same room as you (Ice, you have my profound sympathies for that ordeal), then the world rightly flees from you and your zero command of social niceties and total inability to speak in coherent sentences.
So no, I'm quite sure I didn't miss a thing worth seeing or hearing last night at Fitzgerald's.
"Nucaler" - lol, sorry but Palin is the female version of Dubbya! She did ok because she was well rehearsed. Doesn't change my opinion of her, though, she still bumbled her other interviews which were UNrehearsed - that was the real Sarah Palin with no crib notes and no coaching.
The real cause of the politician's panic.
It's all starting to make sense now. THEY can't keep borrowing. Hmmm, perhaps they'll have to live within their means...
"Nucaler" - lol, sorry but Palin is the female version of Dubbya! She did ok because she was well rehearsed. Doesn't change my opinion of her, though, she still bumbled her other interviews which were UNrehearsed - that was the real Sarah Palin with no crib notes and no coaching.
No kiddin' crank. (I'm adopting Palin's annoyin' habit of droppin' the g from every 'ing' word) crank. Maverick is so played out.
Plus, if you have to take on your own party all the time, maybe your party sucks.
Her performance can be considered a success in that she didn't drool or implode like she did with Katie Couric however it still doesn't change the fact that it was obvious she could not improvise or tread water. She stuck to the talking points drilled into her Stepfordian brain and anytime the topic deviated from those talking points, she employed double talk and circular logic to fill the air with words so that it sounded like she had an answer.
There were several moments where the mic was given to her where she remained silent until she figured out a way how to turn the discussion back to one of her safe talking points.
As Bob Schneider from CNN said, "Palin's answers didn't lack confidence. They lacked coherence."
Essentially what I got out of it was, "I'm not going to listen to Gwen Ifill. I'm not going to answer the questions the moderator asks to be answered. I'm not going to play by the rules and when I get elected, I want more power than the VP position has had before."
Scary.
a commenter on a wall street journal thread pointed out "palin won the debate going on inside her own head. she answered her own questions perfectly."
no matter what gwen ifill or joe biden said, it seemed like someone behind the curtain would press a little button to cue up "reference ronald reagan!" "Stop looking backward!" "I know a lot about energy!" "we are a pair of mavericks!" and just like my old chatty kathy doll, the canned response would come rolling out.
remember that scene in The Stepford Wives when Katherine Ross frantically runs into paula prentiss's house and tries to tell her what's going on? then she realizes that paula prentiss is a robot so she stabs her with a butter knife or something, and prentiss starts repeating the same nonsense over and over?
that's palin. a stepford maverick.
For those of you who are attacking Palin, saying she was "rehearsed" or had crib notes, you don't think Joe Biden "rehearses" HIS speeches before he gives them? I'll go out on a limb here and say that most politicians who speak in front of audiences have speech coaches and rehearse beforehand.
(I'm adopting Palin's annoyin' habit of droppin' the g from every 'ing' word)
Perhaps her real name is Paling.
My point was that if Palin "rehearsed" for each and every interview she was given, then maybe she'd answer with semi-coherent answers...whereas others, including Biden can answer questions coherently and not deviate from the question or grasp the air desperately for the right words...
Actually, dannyboor, I think it's your tired attempts at making political comments of genuine relevance and coherence which are played out. Your act was short-lived in its effectiveness, even with those occasional bursts of profanity you tend to fall back on for shock.
Words like "drool" and "implode" and even "Stepfordian?" These are the avails of someone who really has nothing substantive to say.
In some respects, you're just laserboy without the self-proclaimed dyslexia he sometimes drags out as an excuse for his wonderful ability to post nonsense.
(Ah, cathar's verbal equivalent to a cashmere-glove-slap never fails to make me smile. Wit beats shock. Always. Youbetcha!)
Yes, it was fun, Thank You Baristanet. Next time call NJN.
And yet little richie, you support Sarah Palin.
Someone spike your metamucil this mornin' Ole Whiskers? :)
Biden answered the questions posed, and had coherent rebuttals for the frequently bogus attacks from Palin.
That woman has no business being near the white house. Were I a Republican I'd be insulted she was tapped to be my party's VP.
I'm sure Biden practiced, to not do so would have been foolish. He did not however go through a month of training after being picked. She's an organ grinder monkey that appeals to the lowest common denominator.
(Sure Baristanet would rather the 9 people who watch NJN versus the #1 News channel. That's makes sense. What's next? Suggesting that Baristanet publish on newsprint rather than online? Make that money Baristanet!!! Fox or anyone else, get that publicity!!!)
I thought the debate was a tepid affair and dozed off about 1/2 hour into it.
A crushing weight on my chest woke me. It wasn't a heart attack as I originally feared. It was Tiger purring contentedly and stretched out as lazily as me.
It seemed that Palin started to answer the early questions without any evidence of thought or reflection. Her responses were canned and prepared, but then so were Biden's.
I'm voting for Obama. Anybody that can drive to their left and shoot a left handed layup in traffic has to be qualified to lead this great nation!
LOL Mellon. I was pretty impressed with that footage too. Although that layup is to be expected since he is naturally left-handed, a fact my southpaw wife keeps reminding me as evidence of Obama's being in his right mind.
"She's an organ grinder monkey that appeals to the lowest common denominator."
Whoa baby, that's pretty harsh.
I think she's a savvy politician that knows how to charm and influence people. If her party doesn't win, there is a good chance we'll see her again.
Hey, did she lose a few pounds? She looked terrific!
Cowardly Cathar, prior engagement my eye. You're a sniveling coward who hides behind his keyboard.
Lasermike,
As you well know, Cathar served in the armed forces and is a combat veteran. Where the f' do you get off calling him a coward. He could wipe the floor with ten of you and not even break a sweat. Well maybe a little bit of sweat, but not more than an ounce or two.
Really! He's a coward because he doesn't show up at the same social function as Lasermike? That's rich.
...but he's not a maverick, if he didn't get caught and thrown into prison.
"I have to say that we both thought that Sarah Palin did a good job. Yes, there were a couple gaffes, mispronuniciations and such but nothing major league. I thought that she came across less "canned" than Biden. She spoke from the gut."
Isn't it remarkable when two minds can bear witness to the same even and come away with completely different impressions? I thought the opposite, that Palin was canned and that Biden was speaking extemporaneously. I suppose that is what makes for interesting elections!
I guess it depends on to whom you speak. Mind you, I am not ga-ga over either candidate, I just thought she presented better.
Yes Mrs. M - I was just making an observation based on your comment. I just find it fascinating in a non-judgemental way that we can both watch the same thing and come away with different impressions.
Although I thought Biden presented better, I respect the viewpoint of anyone who thought Palin did (including my Mom!).
Pork,
I find her excruciating to listen to as well. Something about the fumbled words and missed opportunities. It won't keep me from voting for her. I had a hard time listening to Bush as well. But I place more of a premium on shared values than public speaking ability (or even IQ - to a degree).
After all, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and Bill Clinton are all fantastic public speakers (as just about any con-man would be).
Pork Roll: Would love to know what Middle America thought of the debates as well.
MB-
Military does not make a hero. And does not set you up to be immune from any criticism. Its pathetic that people like McCain will bring up their service record like it can define them for decades to come. Believe it or not, you can still be a coward. McCain acted like a coward when he left his wife. Remember, Benedict Arnold was a war hero too.
Im not hating on the military. My grandfather served in WWII, and I respect all my friends who have served in Iraq. But I also know enough A**holes who have served because they were a failure in school, and when they got out, they've been a failure in business, relationships, etc. They were cowards when they entered the military
"I had a hard time listening to Bush as well. But I place more of a premium on shared values than public speaking ability (or even IQ - to a degree)."
ROC - what values might those be? Truly, all I have seen is a mad grab for power, disregard for the constitution and some radical religious points of view.
Well I see different things gurl.
I favored the Iraq war. I favor conservative judicial appointments, and pro-life stances.
Not to be critical (or dismissive), but with all the discussion of individual qualifications, it seems party affiliation trumps all.
Maybe I should have said party affiliation, as a proxy for ideology or values, trumps all.
Party affiliation or values and positions which may align along party lines. (there are only 2 after all).
For myself I'll say I vote for Republicans and Democrats.
(I voted for Bill Clinton, twice)
It's been my experience that people who look down their noses at political parties vote democratic 90% of the time.
RoC, I don't get you. Half a million Iraqis are dead and they died in vain. This invasion and occupation was a bloody murderous rampage.
The anti-abortion stance is held by conservative Christians - it is a shameful that they have so much influence in a secular and multi-cultural society. As for the the views of the last few conservative judicial appointments - they are actually quite radical.
I look down my nose at people who would tell me what to do with my own body, who I can legally marry, think that myths should be taught as absolute truths in our schools and "believe" they have the moral upper hand to do so.
I would look down my nose less at Republicans if the party had not allowed itself to be co-opted by religious zealots and angry crackpots .
As it is now - I would prefer to have a third or fourth real choice and the current crop of representatives on both sides is shockingly inept. Still, I will vote for Obama because I think the alternative is far too frightening and because our leaders should be smarter and more informed than 'joe six pack'.
I look down my nose at people who would tell me what to do with my own body
Good. So where's my open access to any medication or recreational drug that I might want? Why can't I choose to have medical procedures, tatoos or haircuts provided by unlicensed providers, if I so desire? Why isn't the voluntary sex trade legal?
"Hands off my body" is a great constitutional concept, but we abandoned it long ago, if it ever really existed.
Take heart, Baristavillians! Were you totally wowed by Sarah's performance last night? Did you find yourself thinking wistfully today, "My gosh, but I wish I could debate like that"?
Well, I've got some great news for you: you can learn to debate just like Sarah! It's easy! Next time you're in a debate, just take this handy Sarah Palin Debate Flow Chart along! By golly, you'll be a winner just like Sarah!
Apple - there's a difference between regulating providers of services and products and regulating a person's ability to obtain those services and products. I should be able to end a pregnancy,or to purchase sex, or heroin etc.
Jerseygurl, the "anti-abortion stance" is held by far more groups than "conservative Christians."
The apolitical (more or less) Amish, the very politically liberal Mennonites, the somewhat liberal Seventh Day Adventists, many groupings of Orthodox Jews and Muslims, for openers, are opposed to abortion. Even American Papists track, in general, as fairly liberal in terms of their politics; they are certainly not "conservative Christians" in most ways.
But as I always tell you after I've read one of the windy gulps of mis-logic which pass for your posts, it helps to know something about the topic before you post on it. Clearly, you disagree.
"It's been my experience that people who look down their noses at political parties vote democratic 90% of the time."
There was a party at Fitzgerald's last night. You talking about people who were too snobby to attend?
Cathar - it's a religious issue, period. You pretty much list Religious sects, mostly Christian ones and some very strict ones at that. The Amish and Mennonites? The majority of Jews believe that Jewish law does not consider abortion murder and puts the welfare of the mother over the fetus. I don't know the Muslim stance on abortion, and frankly don't care. Those who consider abortion to be murder do so because of their religious "beliefs" and the conservative religious creep that has made it's way into our political system is appalling.
I don't know, JG. You can be morally opposed to abortion and be an atheist. I don't think that one's opinion about when life begins is necessarily tied to religion. It's a complex issue.
I believe the idea of this country (simplistically) came from an escape of religious persecution morphing into the idea of freedom to believe as you wished; expanding to freedoms and rights for the individual. Accolades to the framers, they saw an ideal never starts out as reality but evolves over time toward the lofty goal, and tried to build in safeguards broad enough to work over time, and they have working many times over history.
That said, any group is entitled to their beliefs; the problem is insisting everyone else also adhere to those practices, extremists going as far as "making" you believe in their god(s) point of view. In other words the marrow of one bone you dogs are worrying is the foothold a group is getting that's stepping closer to imposing their viewpoint on "me". A group that is willing to throw the progress in understanding of the universe and how it works out the window in order to prove they have all the answers, seemingly along with the ideal.
Sorry Bub, your freedom ends where my nose begins. If you want the freedom to keep a "defective" embryo you also give up the right to make someone else keep it, just as my freedom to terminate it negates my right to make you do the same.
There's no question that its tough to balance being civilized with total anarchy using fair laws for the common good, which is why spirited debate is healthy; I just think we're already way out of balance toward too many laws already, making the abortion issue even larger than just the hotbed of defining the point of when to call it a person and not just potential. This and other highly divisive issues tend to make people start debating too specifically and emotionally, loosing site of the basic rights and freedoms at stake when making compromises (think the "Patriot Act"), which is one of the reasons things get so out of balance.
I want to start moving toward that fundamental ideal again and limit the time it will take to make up lost ground, that's why I can't vote for McCain/Palin, even with a gas mask.
One up for Jersey, one down for Cathar.
Jewish law will allow the destruction of the fetus if the mother's life is in danger.
I might add that Jewish law prohibits the consumption of shrimp fajitas, etc.
Therefore I submit that Jewish Law is flawed.
One can (and should) oppose abortion on moral grounds alone separate from religion. In the same way being opposed to stealing does not rest on a religious argument.
It all comes down to when a fetus attains human rights. Reasonable people can disagree on that, but being opposed to abortion does not mean you're 'forcing' religion on anyone anymore than any other morality based law.
Father ROC....And those who are pro-choice are what?? Keep throwing those stones.
"And those who are pro-choice are what?"
They have a different moral position on the fetus-human rights question. An incorrect moral position.
I realize that with a relative moral framework at play, the whole notion that someone might be wrong (or right) is anathema.
In such a framework nearly all of morality is reduced to greys.
p.s. Not to say that pro-lifers have the moral question right. Who knows? But one has to choose (so to speak) where one is on the question for any action to follow.
pps
and also, not to say morality isn't full of grey areas - it is.
Well golly gee, jimny crickets, and holy smokes, PAZ, that was one heck of a Palin riff. Shure, I know, most Americans stopped talking like that some time between the Wizard of Oz and the advent of the computer.
But what the heck, who cares, the second comin' is just a fer piece down the road! Everyone git yer guns and start fessin' up to yer sins!
What does pro-life mean? Anti-abortion? Somehow that's also the same point of view of folks who think the death penalty is okay and we should invade people and kill them just so they don't maybe kill us first? When someone says that a fertilized egg is a "human" life yet thinks it's a miracle when in vitro fertilization produces quintuplets but forgets about all those other fertilized eggs that get thrown in the garbage I start to think there's some funny hocus pocus nonsensical non-humanitarian non-common sense and common decency conservation mythology involved. The moon is also made of cheese. The people who think an embryo is more important than the entire fully grown and fully birthed human it came from are the same people who think evolution is a lie. Furthermore, if men could get pregnant this would not even be an issue.
Jerysegurl, your dumbness just goes on and on. And on. Every time I think there's some hope for you in terms of intelligence, stuff like your post above proves to me that no, there isn't.
Not that it matters to you, I'm sure, but you're also astoundingly insensitive to the possibility that some might disagree vehemently with your twittish self on matters of faith and morals. Lucky for the party you're backing this year, then, that you're not a "community organizer" for it. With you out on the hustings hustling for Obama, he'd have no chance whatsoever at any votes from Roman Catholics save a few from the Kennedy family (and we all know how devout that brigade of drug addicts, drunks and philanderers is).
And, both jerseygurl and j perlstein, it is not necessarily soley a religious issue. Self-described "secular Jew" and atheist Nat Hentoff, fiercely opposed to abortion, describes it as a civil rights issue.
(Really, perlstein, whatever your degree of personal animosity towards me, I'd still have normally thought that awarding any points whatsoever to jerseygurl against me, on anything, was quite beyond you. The woman is helpless, she posts to affirm her existence and via her posts only establishes how mal-informed and barren of learning she is.)
Cathar - the majority of middle class and working class Catholics when polled say they will not vote for Obama and many of those say it is because he is black. So much for an enlightened point of few from a group that is supposedly based on the teachings of Jesus. Nat Hentoff is a bit of an old crackpot - undoubtedly getting a bit senile like yourself. Again, it's completely hypocritical to say life begins at conception therefore abortion should not be legal and at the same time believe it's fine to produce fertilized eggs for in vitro fertilization the majority of which will be discarded. If it's a civil rights issue Nat should start a campaign against fertility clinics or gather up all those embryos and find a good home for them.
Well, Cathar, I bear you no ill will.
Simply stated, with regard to ancient Jewish law and abortion, Jerseygurl had the facts, so the point went to her.
I don't know if any of you remember the huge article that ran in NY Magazine a couple of years back, about NYC being the most abortion-friendly city in America. Abortion-friendly meaning its accessibility and cost. They interviewed a couple of young women who came to NYC specifically for this purpose. I was appalled by the attitudes of some of them. Many of the women interviewed, who had never been to NYC before, acted like it was a vacation of sorts. There was never any mention of how they felt about the actual abortion; their attitues were very cavalier, a sort of, "Oh well, shit happens." And then you have to ask, why are we the taxpayers paying for this? Why not just not get pregnant in the first place? Yes, I realize that accidents can and do happen and not to just young, unwed women and girls but to middle-age married women as well. But how about people, like the young women in the article, taking a little bit more responsibility for their actions? If you're old enough to be having sex, then you're old enough to use birth control.
J Perlstein.
Since when is Jewish law dependent on "What most Jews think" ?
That's a pretty non-standard understanding of Jewish law.
None of the Reform, Conservative or Orthodox movements condone abortion as a birth control method.
In Reform, it's solely up to the mother. (pro choice)
In the Conservative movement is only allowed if the health of the mother is at severe risk (both physical and psychological) or the infant would be very severely handicapped and would otherwise suffer an agonizing death.
The Orthodox only allow it with *certain* life and death danger to the mother. In all other cases it isn't allowed.
Recinstructionists, I have no idea.
" The majority of Jews believe that Jewish law does not consider abortion murder and puts the welfare of the mother over the fetus."
-Jerseygurl
"Simply stated, with regard to ancient Jewish law and abortion, Jerseygurl had the facts, so the point went to her."
-j perlstein
ROC
I made a clear point of referring to the "ancient Jewish law" part, which is an actual fact.
Jerseygurl sought (to her credit) to place that fact into a contemporary context.
No matter, ancient Jewish law is obsolete, most Jews have moved on.
The holdouts move to Jersey towns with bad school districts.
Precisely, Miss Martta. That's why they settle in towns where the public schools are lousy.
Palin: "Darn right" Heck! Can she use every Jean Lundegaard (Fargo) cliche possible? She sounds over-practiced, forced, and unfamiliar with real understanding of the issues.