Montclair: Save The Bluestone!

I hear the word "bluestones" and I immediately think first of Stonehenge. Later of some other megalithic monuments. But never of Montclair.

I saw that article in the Ledger. Don't people know that concrete, after a number of years, breaks up, too? It becomes just as hazardous as the bluestone but is not as aesthetically pleasing.

an historic

GAH! "Historic" starts with the letter "H", not a vowel!

It's "A historic," not "An historic"!

/end mini-rant about one of my very few grammar pet peeves

GnM,

Watch out, next thing you know all the grammar illiterates or those lazy typist here will call you a "grammarist."

God forbid you strive to use proper grammar, spelling or punctuation.....

It's 2008, write how you feel!

There are certain words, GNM, which to the best of my recollection can "qualify" for the use of "an" rather than "a" based on their pronounciation. Either is supposedly okay in such cases.

Though what the OED may make of this is another matter entirely. But I'm not about to dig out my version of same which comes with the magnifier to find out.

Given the current economic crisis, the best decision would be to use the least expensive materials.

If concrete is cheaper, use concrete and forget about this ridiculous idea.

Seems a lot like the addiction to Belgian block curbs in Montclair.

How about we relieve Hartnet of all his domains so he won't have to watch over any of it.

I'm sorry, when our insurance company comes out and tells us that our cracked bluestone sidewalk is a death trap and they want us to fix it or they will drop us, where do we send the huge bill for the aestetically pleasing bluestone replacement?

How about a tax credit if we do it?

Bluestone is slippery as hell when it rains.

Does the township enforce laws regarding broken sidewalks? There are several in my neighborhood that have heaved and broken causing very dangerous conditions for pedestrians. Rather than worry about the damn bluestone, how about a campaign to force property owners to repair their dangerous sidewalks.

Not mentioned, but bluestone slabs can be reset and be as even and flat as a new concrete.

Thanks, Star Ledger, for telling the folks who break into construction sites and sell the copper plumbing for scrap that Montclair sidewalks are worth $200 per square. BTW, I've always learned that its "an historic," a silly rule that I honor just about as often as I raise my pinky to drink tea or mangle a sentence so as not to split an infinitive (er, so as not to an infinitive split).

Thanks, Star Ledger, for telling the folks who break into construction sites and sell the copper plumbing for scrap that Montclair sidewalks are worth $200 per square.

BTW, I've always learned that it's "an historic," a silly rule that I honor just about as often as I raise my pinky to drink tea or mangle a sentence so as not to split an infinitive (er, so as not to an infinitive split).

it's 'an historic'......and I suggest focusing on creating bike paths before ripping apart Montclair's walks..

MMM is correct. Bluestone can be repaired.

As to issues of broken sidewalks that pose a danger, the "process" is complaint driven and if you call "Code Enforcement" at 973 509-5793 action will be taken with the homeowner responsible for the situation.

Among other aesthetic considerations, the intention of this "legislation" is to 1) prevent theft of the valuable bluestone and 2) come up with a simplified method of reporting safety issues and resolving issues of sidewalk safety due to broken walks, tree roots, etc.

And I think if you'll look at the numbers, you'll find bluestone to be much more competitve than concrete.

My bluestone walks have been in since 1896. Properly poured concrete has a life much, much shorter.

Thanks,

Cary Africk
2nd Ward Councilor

"And I think if you'll look at the numbers, you'll find bluestone to be much more competitve than concrete."

Must be why they're stealing it.

i can't imagine that thieves are making off with giant slabs of bluestone left and right, do you have any idea how heavy they are? we have a patio made of the stuff and it just about killed us when we tackled the task of leveling and rearranging them.

GnM, Scott, Cat,

The use of "an" with words like "historic" is a dialect difference.

Growing up in Queens, we were taught to use "an" with words like "historic" at P.S. 84. Later, in High School in Oregon, and College in California, we were told to use "a".

Some folks say it's an affectation to use "an", because the "h" in "historic" was once silent, but no one could reasonably accuse my teachers at P.S. 84 of affectation, I suspect it's more of a "go fuck yourself grammar boy" attitude.

FWIW, the AP stylebook says to use "a". Never the less, I will continue to use "an" -

Go P.S. 84!

"an historic" is a Britishism.
Correct in the U.K., considered (now) a bit affected, or at least old-fashioned, in the U.S. (But that's how I learned it, too, and it still sounds fine to my ear!)

p.s. Cary.

How much will the "resolution to form an advisory task force on repairing and replacing sidewalks" save us in property tax?

How's that project coming? I know it's no "cracked sidewalk" in importance, but hopefully it's somewhere on the agenda.

Here's what not to save: all of the montclair part of oxford street. It looks like the aftermath of an earthquake. It's easier to walk in the street.

(I know...so why don't I, then...)

mrx5000, if you're Not walking in the street you must be the only one from what I see.
(just waiting to see the outcry when one of those stroller pushin' moms gets creamed on Ridgewood)

Dear Right,

The "advisory committee" is just a few people trying to hammer out some sense re. the sidewalks. Ever try to figure out what to do when a tree root raises your walk? The current process discourages homeowners from doing the repair.

Right now I'm busy with some stuff on the income side of things that have a real decent payoff, as well as going after grant money so we don't have to borrow even more money.

But remember: 60% of your tax dollar from the BOE. So we'll be taking a close look there in the coming months.

And, longer term, we hope to put some of those newly vacant properties to good use with tax ratables!

Cary Africk
2nd Ward Councilor

Thanks Cary.

"But remember: 60% of your tax dollar from the BOE. So we'll be taking a close look there in the coming months."

I would humbly suggest the council direct 60% of its attention to reducing costs at the BOE.

Then (what the heck) 2% on sidewalks!

Why does it not surprise me that Montclair needs to form an 'advisory task force' to figure out how to take care of sidewalks that have been here for the last hundred years...

The sidewalk problem is a very difficult one for municipalities. Conflicting state laws and legal findings have made it almost impossible for towns to deal with sidewalks in an intelligent and comprehensive manner.

I have discussed this issue with many municipal officials throughout the state. I have also discussed it with state officials and county officials. They all agree - even the state officials - that legislation is needed to fix the problem - legislation that the Municipalities have been requesting for many years (long before I first became involved in municipal government, 18+ years ago).

So you see, this problem, like many of our problems in New Jersey, is due to the refusal of the N.J. State Legislature to do their job, and of successive administrations to lead in any meaningful way.

You're on target (as usual) Carl!

In Montclair we're trying, first of all, to stop people just walking off with the bluestone. Then, we're trying to promote some sense of aesthetics. And I do believe it's relatively easy, and simple, to replace damaged bluestone.

But getting people to keep their sidewalks in good repair is difficult. Tree roots cause concrete to rise and the walks to be a mess. People fall, and sue. And everyone is confused as to what the "town" is supposed to do vs. what "they" are supposed to do (hint: it's the homeowner's responsibility).

The fuss over the sidewalks makes me shudder to think what's going to happen when we start talking "historic district," and "shade tree ordinance." That's when things will get really interesting!

Cary Africk
2nd Ward Councilor

Cary,

WHy were the bluestones on Munn street near the church removed?

An historic account of where are sidewalks came from is found in Goodell's "Montclair, Evolution of a Suburban Town", 1934, pgs.81 - 89. It was Montclair citizen, John H. Parsons Esq. who devised the planning for our sidewalks that are a result of a law passed in 1882. "A general sidewalk law was accordingly drawn up by Mr. Parsons which passed the legislature and became a law early in the spring of 1882." Apparently, there was violent public criticism but Mr. Parsons mediated the situation, "He was able, good-natured, clear- headed, honest and patriotic, and under the advice and at the request of the leaders among our citizens he undertook to find us a remedy for the chaotic conditions of our sidewalks."

My understanding is that the stone material that replaced the earlier wooden plank sidewalks came from the quarries that were located above MSU at the Mills Reservation. Then, when this supply was depleted, the sidewalk material came from elsewhere. (I smile to think that history repeats itself and that good natured Mr. Africk will help us "to find a remedy for the chaotic conditions of our sidewalks.")

sorry...
"our" sidwalks...not "are"

Cary,

I hope this particular blog is not too outdated, so that you might see my comments. I have a red and blue flagstone patio in my backyard. I inherited it from the previous owners. My beloved and master carpenter father-in-law took one look at it and commented upon the one major flaw. The bluestone consistently flakes and splits. The red does not. After 12 years of living in this house, time, rain, weather conditions and light use have obliterated the blue stone. The red is still good. Investing in pretty stone is nice, but as a homeowner, I have learned that labor can cost more than the material. To repair bluestone would seem like throwing good money after bad (I'm sure I don't have that phrase right, as imho there is no such thing as bad money).

I would imagine bluestone at one point to be more accessible and available than other options back in the day of the formation of the streets. The logic of laying down a stone which is inherently flawed for community use does not compute. Sell the stuff to another community, or landscapers. Lay down something that will last.

Katboy,

I think that the stone in your patio is of a different type than the bluestone that was used for sidewalks. The bluestone that is used for sidewalks has held up well for 100 years.

"Bluestone" and the more fragile "Slate" are two different materials. I believe that the patio is made of slate and red traprock.

When I was a kid growing up in East Orange, there was lots of sidewalk paved with slate. I used to crouch down and examine it 'flakes' and marvel at the density of this material.

"So you see, this problem, like many of our problems in New Jersey, is due to the refusal of the N.J. State Legislature to do their job, and of successive administrations to lead in any meaningful way."

Could someone please outline exactly how local sidewalks are under state control?

Lemme guess, the State not "doing" anything constitutes "not paying" for sidewalks?

"I used to crouch down and examine it 'flakes' and marvel at the density of this material."

exactly when did you start "using" anyway?

Like his preferred presidential candidate, ROC is getting testy.
Not too worry, however. The coming economic crisis will soon have all of us walking barefoot on dirt trails through abandoned neighborhoods, and no government -- federal, state, or local --- will have to pay for a thing.

If the town wants us to keep a certain type of sidewalk, how about some financial incentive? Years ago when I lived in Chicago there was a "50/50" program whereby the city would split the cost of sidewalk replacement with the homeowner. That made it much more do-able to replace. I'm not sure where the money came from - is there any sort of grant that could be tapped? I

ROC,

My, aren't we snarky today. Since when were you a supporter of our do-nothing legislature?

Actually, no, I was not talking about having the state pay for sidewalks, nor do I advocate that (except on state roads and at state facilities). The only money involved here is the money being made by lawyers at the expense of homeowners and municipalities.

This is a very complicated issue, with many conflicting and literally contradicting factors. I will attempt, in general terms, to lay it out. I am not a lawyer, and while I am attempting to be as accurate as possible, I am not attempting to give legal advice.

Many munis, including GR (I think Montclair and Bloomfield as well), have ordinances which specifically make it the property owner's responsibility to maintain the sidewalks in front of their properties. While these ordinances have generally held up in court, due to a number of court decisions, enough "exceptional conditions" have been carved out that in many situations, responsibility/liability for broken sidewalks, and for fixing them, is now decided in court, on a case-by-case basis. While that keeps many lawyers employed, it is not the most cost-effective way to decide matters of public policy (unless you are a lawyer).

In these cases, often an important factor is "who touched it last" so you have towns and homeowners each saying, essentially "Not It!" The result is that many towns that are concerned about their financial liability (you may have noticed that not all towns are) have essentially adopted a "hands off" policy with regard to sidewalks adjoining private property, often at the insistance of their risk management staff or insurance companies.

The munis have been asking the state, for decades, to pass legislation that would clearly define the responsibilities and liabilities involved, or at least that would fully empower the munis to do so (different courts have disagreed as to whether and to what extent munis are allowed to do so under current statutes).

MtcMom - I hope this answers your question as to why towns are reluctant to do as you suggest - they would then be the last ones to "touch it".

Nothing, however, would prevent municipalities from fixing the sidewalks, though, would it?

I rest my case.

Only if a municipality were to decide that it would now like to take full financial responsibility for all the sidewalks in the town, including all responsibility for all "trip-and-fall" cases on those sidewalks.

I certainly would not support that decision, would you? My property taxes are high enough already.

With responsibility vague, isn't that case now? Except with the need for guaranteed litigation for any serious occurrence?

No, not at all. Right now the homeowners are responsible in all the non-extraordinary cases, and for general upkeep, and as long as the towns don't touch the sidewalks, their liability is limited.

I just went through the whole thread, and nowhere did you say anything about having the town assume responsibility for the sidewalks, and I ask you again - is that something that you are advocating?

If it is, I think you really haven't thought-out the financial implications.

And if you are not advocating having the town pay for the sidewalks, I'm having trouble discerning your point, unless it is just to give me a hard time.

One result from the task force created that is complimentary to the ordiance -- could be that through bulk purchasing arrangements -- the Township provides homeowners reduced costs for both the purchase and installation of bluestone sidewalks from a few approved stone yards and masonary providers.

Before jumping the gun on this concrete v. bluestone debate -- all the various safety, durability, aesthetic and cost factors really have to be fully evaluated -- not just from annecdotal reports that we all have about this piece of concrete cracked and that piece of stone broken etc. -- but with solid industry information that gets presented back to the council.

In short, we need a coherent sidewalk streetscape policy that also works with the new curbs and shade trees so our streets are considered a complete system.

The purpose of the "no take" bluestone law to be enacted was to hold the fort on the existing bluestone -- let the Task Force come together and do its work and then help create an intelligent policy going forward.

We all complain when government doesn't fully think things through before acting. Well here's a process created by this council that can have a positive result on multiple levels. It was set up to operate out in the open -- so that information needed will be obtained from both experts and residents -- with the kind of transparancy and inclusion we all want.

Let it happen.

I guess the sidewalks aren't stolen by somebody needing a replacement for their walk; good profit in those stones.

Carl,

My point is that local government is abdicating its responsibility by blaming the state. Townships could form reasonable policies on their own.

I also think it's reasonable that if the home owner is responsible, then he or she should also be the one to decide what kind of sidewalk to have.

No, not at all. Right now the homeowners are responsible in all the non-extraordinary cases, and for general upkeep, and as long as the towns don't touch the sidewalks, their liability is limited.

that's a telling statement. The "policy" seems to be we don't touch and we don't inspect and the sidewalks are a mess and it's not OUR fault.

If the homeowner is fully responsible then the towns should cite homeowners for unsafe sidewalks.

Your position seems to be "don't look at me" and I think you should get a "hard time for it" (respectfully)

After all we institute government so the public safety is maintained and sidewalks are truly a mess.

ROC writes:

Townships could form reasonable policies on their own.

All municipalities receive their authority from the state. Court cases have undermined the statutes from which the municipalities derive that authority regarding sidewalks. The municipalities have been requesting, for decades, that the legislature pass new legislation to address this problem, the legislature has not. This should not be a surprise to anyone familiar with the NJ Legislature.

If Montclair were to go ahead anyway, against legal advice, and try to set standards, and the net result was millions of dollars of additional liability to the taxpayers, I am sure that you would be first in line saying "you did the right thing"

not

Is there missing authority from the state in enforcing the standards on the books? Can't homeowners be cited now for faulty sidewalks?

And to be clear, while I am not now an elected official, when I was, I tried to be as pro-active as possible regarding sidewalks (that's one reason I am so familiar with the subject), but those actions were severely constrained because as an elected official, I, and my fellow elected and appointed officials, had an obligation (which any official should take seriously, even if many do not) not to expose the taxpayers to the potential of millions of dollars of additional liability.

If your point is that the legislature failing to do its job is not an excuse to do nothing, I agree, but that's not what is happening here, so how is that point even relevant?

I said:

The sidewalk problem is a very difficult one for municipalities. Conflicting state laws and legal findings have made it almost impossible for towns to deal with sidewalks in an intelligent and comprehensive manner.

Explaning why caution is warranted, and why many towns do less than what the uninformed might think is dealing with the problem in an intelligent and comprehensive manner, is not the same as advocating doing nothing.

so I take it's that's a "yes"? Homeowners can now be cited for faulty sidewalks without additional state authority?

If, so, that's what should happen rather than blaming the state government. Municipalities can enforce the laws as already on the books and set policy regarding bluestone replacement on their own.

So if the sidewalks are a mess we can rightly blame the township for not enforcing that law.

frankly I am sick of excuses at all levels of government.

p.p.s and paying $250 for every 2 feet of sidewalk is precisely the kind of utter stupidity which has to stop if taxes are ever going to come down. The cost of concrete being about $40 for the same 8 sq feet.

ROC - you type much faster than I can thoughtfully reply - I wrote the 3:45 post before I saw your 3:29 post. While as it happens, it kind of addresses your questions, I'll directly answer them:

Is there missing authority from the state in enforcing the standards on the books?

In some circumstances, yes.

Can't homeowners be cited now for faulty sidewalks?

In many circumstances, yes.

More on the rest of your posts to follow...

so I take it's that's a "yes"? Homeowners can now be cited for faulty sidewalks without additional state authority?

No, the answer is not a blanket "yes", it is "yes" or "no", depending on the circumstances.

Which gets to another point - political reality.

It is hard enough to get elected bodies (which are generally "reactve") to act pro-actively under the best of circumstances. The more difficult or nuanced things are, the harder it becomes.

I am not making excuses - why should I - I don't live in Montclair, and I've never been an official there.

I'll say it again - Explaining why caution is warranted, and why many towns do less than what the uninformed might think is dealing with the problem in an intelligent and comprehensive manner, is not the same as advocating doing nothing.

I should add that explaining why some towns don't do as much as they should (and might under other circumstances) is not the same as condoning that inaction.

Respectfully, your answer is unnecessarily opaque. When "yes" and when "no"? I am going a hazard a commonsense guess and guess that it's yes when the town has not "touched" the sidewalk and "no" when it has.

So, there is a mechanism whereby a township can by enforcement (when the township has not "touched" it) or by repair keep the sidewalks safe. Which is the prime duty of the township in question regarding the issue.

Thanks for the time. Its certainly more that I've heard from my township on the issue (except the ever-present commission formation).

And from where I sit the "political reality" is that sidewalks are a mess in Montclair and I am not disposed to hear a lot of excuses on the subject. No matter how "uninformed" I am on the "nuance" of the topic or how many "advisory task forces" are commissioned.

If Montclair's leadership can't manage sidewalks is there any hope for property tax relief or management of the BOE?

Arghh! You are ahead of me again ROC!

p.p.s and paying $250 for every 2 feet of sidewalk is precisely the kind of utter stupidity which has to stop if taxes are ever going to come down. The cost of concrete being about $40 for the same 8 sq feet.

If you are referring specifically to the quote in the article about the stones that Mr. Zichelli was talking about, if it is the project I believe he is talking about, bluestone was our only legal option in that situation, and it was replacing bluestone that had been damaged by others, and as I recall, the Borough was reinmbursed for the expense. My memory of it is a bit hazy since this was at least 5 or 6 years ago. Incidently, the stones, which are on one of the most heavily travelled (and walked, and salted) blocks in GR, look as good today as they did the day they were installed (they are a block from my office).

If you are making a more general statement, I would submit to you that that is a political decision - if you feel that is a poor use of your tax dollars, you should express that opinion to your elected officials (sorry - couldn't resist) - perhaps through some sort of "advisory task force".

" I recall, the Borough was reinmbursed for the expense."

By some "sucker" I imagine. Oh wait. It's me via my state taxes!

Respectfully, your answer is unnecessarily opaque. When "yes" and when "no"? I am going a hazard a commonsense guess and guess that it's yes when the town has not "touched" the sidewalk and "no" when it has.

ROC - Anyone who knows me, even those who don't like me, would tell you that I am seldom if ever needlessly opaque - subtle I ain't.

You use the word "commonsense", but you should know by now that commonsense and the law are distant cousins at best.

"last touched" is only one of several factors. What I said before was accurate, it is often a case-by-case basis, and even then, often an expert can only say with a certain amount certainty.

And from where I sit the "political reality" is that sidewalks are a mess in Montclair and I am not disposed to hear a lot of excuses on the subject. No matter how "uninformed" I am on the "nuance" of the topic or how many "advisory task forces" are commissioned.

No slight intended. As I said, I can't and won't speak for Montclair. I can speak of my experience in GR.

If you know anything about my tenure as Mayor, you know that restoring our town facilities to "good" condition was a high priority for me, as was making sure that property owners throughout the town did the same with their properties.

Part of that was making sure that the town's sidewalks were in good repair, so understand that I came to this as someone who wanted very strongly to get the sidewalks fixed.

We did what we could given the constraints that we faced. Because the laws are so screwed-up, if the legislature had done what the towns have asked them to do for decades, we could have done a lot more, and the town's sidewalks would be in better condition today.

That is not an excuse, that's the way things work. Give someone who knows what they are doing the tools that are needed to get the job done, and you will get better results. Give them crappy tools and inferior working conditions, and the results we be less desirable. We weren't asking for money, we were asking them to do what they are supposed to do, pass legislation that stands up in court, and fix it when it doesn't.

By some "sucker" I imagine. Oh wait. It's me via my state taxes!

If someone damaged your bluestone walk, would allow them (or their insurance company) to replace it with cement? I certainly wouldn't, the bluestone lasts longer and looks better.

Well, I've said all I care to on this subject, this is the kind of thing that is much easier to discuss in person than para by para in this medium.

Here's wishing you an easy fast.

(Carl, you got 25% of the posts here-- I dubbed thee: Carl Bergmanson, KING BLUESTONE!!!)

Given the bitterness at last night's Town Council meeting, I am inclined to just pull the Ordinance and forget about the bluestone.

This will not relieve property owners from the obligation to maintain their sidewalks. The one thing I have found is that homeowners were more often than not unaware that it is they who have the responsibility for the walks.

Indeed its been very disturbing to hear all the stories of people falling and injuring themselves. Do people think we should devote even more effort with our Code Enforcement officers on making sure sidewalks, be they concrete or bluestone, are in "safe" condition?

That being said, I am now reconsidering efforts on a Shade Tree Ordinance. Typically, those ordinances pose restrictions on what can and can't be done with both municipal and private trees. And if people get so upset over sidewalk materials, I don't even want to think how upset they would be if we told them they can't cut down all the trees in their own front yard.

Carl, How did you ever get Historic designation for Glen Ridge?

Cary Africk

Yes, Cary, absolutely enforce the sidewalk code. (What else are the code officers doing, anyway?) Older folks and stroller-pushers (hard to see around the equipment) in particular are vulnerable.

That said, the sidewalk at our first house was terrible (all broken up by tree roots) and because we were on a corner, that was going to be a whole lot of sidewalk to replace--something that was not in our budget. We were grateful for our homeowners' umbrella policy, which we feared would have to kick in when someone tripped and sued! But we knew it was our responsibility, and if ticketed for it, we would have had to come up with the money to fix it. As it was, the town turned a blind eye, and the messed-up sidewalk stayed.

"In Montclair we're trying, first of all, to stop people just walking off with the bluestone."

But Cary, isn't there already a law against "stealing" bluestone, as it was put at the meeting? Why do we need this new ordinance?

And, the way the ordinance was written, it has nothing to do with stelaing bluestone or contractors walking off with it (which seems to more often happen on jobs run through the town itself).

The ordinance is written to require a homeowner to replace bluestone with bluestone! Assuming the homeowner is involved enough in the project, it wouldn;t really be a case of stolen bluestone, it would be a concious decision by the homeowner. And if the town feels it is "their" bluestone, then they should require it be returned to the town if the homeowner decides to "downgrade".

But the ordinance as written does nothing to address what was your prime reason for it, to stop the theft of bluestone by contractors.

Or did I miss something?

We do not have an ordinance against stealing bluestone.

That's what this ordinance was for.

Don't worry. I've withdrawn my support for this ordinance. We've much more important things to address.

Cary Africk

Carl, How did you ever get Historic designation for Glen Ridge?

That was before my time, Cary, but I sure am glad that it got done. Coincidentally, I was living on Watchung Ave in Montclair, when the first Historic District Ordinance was passed.

While I wasn't here, I'm told that the town spent a long time and did a lot of hand-holding to smooth it through. Also, while both GR and Montclair are great towns, they are very different towns, and that was even more so 20 years ago.

Also, things are different now from the way they were in the 80's. The good faith required to get things done is being undermined by a corrosive cynicism that is permeating our culture. It's gotten to the point that any idiot with a tongue and an asshole feels free to use the former to act like the latter. Couple that with a new, bizarrely-warped form of "fairness" that causes some folks to believe that the opinion of every nitwit, even one who has no idea what he's talking about, is supposed to count just as much as the opinion of qualified experts who actually do know what they are talking about, and it is becoming harder and harder to get things done.

That said, things must get done, and public input is vital to getting it done right, so keep your head up, keep listening, hold on tight to what you know is right, and do your best. That's all anyone can reasonably ask.

Thanks!

Look forward to sitting down and chatting some time with you Carl!

Cary Africk

As I said, GR is very different than Montclair, but any time you (or anyone else for that matter) feel I can be helpful, just call...

My contact info is on the website, and I'm in "the book".

Carl

Cary, thanks for sticking with the posting.

I too have had older family members take nasty spills in town. While I don't believe any involve bluestone, I know for a fact that they often walk in the street to avoid the bluestone sidewalks. Despite that, both believe the bluestone is beautiful and just needs to be better taken care of. I hope you don't give up too easily. Someone is always upset about something, especially in this venue, so don't let that scare you off or you'll never get anything done.

Leveling a stone or a slab is not really all that difficult or expensive actually.

To remove, level and reset the bluestone (slabs and pieces) would probably cost lest than removing and replacing it with something else as well as being the most aesthetically characteristic.

To remove, level and reset the bluestone (slabs and pieces) would probably cost less than removing and replacing it with something else as well as being the most aesthetically characteristic.

"We do not have an ordinance against stealing bluestone."

No ordinance, but how about a law? You mean if someone comes by while I'm away and steals my bluestone, I have no legal recourse?

But maybe not withdrawn it as you were the only one to vote FOR it.

Mr. Africk,
It encourages me that you are considering withdrawing support of this piece of legislation. I agree that there are many bad sidewalks out there both cement and bluestone but people who are going to address their sidewalk problems should be free to use the paving of their choosing which falls within personal budget.