Dog Trainer Wanted By Police, Faces Criminal Charges

Five minutes in a locked room. Really.

Dip him in elk blood, then drop him into the Yellowstone backcountry...

How is the Shih Tzu?

People like this make me sick...They should lock him up in a dog run at a shelter.

They should beat him with a pipe. Disgusting.

Five minutes in a locked room but with The "Hot Shot/Red One - Sabre Six" electric livestock prod. I just want to see how well it works and what better way to try it out? Seriously. Make my day.

Ok, we're all outraged by the alleged conduct of this man.

Was the purpose of this article to inform? Yes, especially if you are a dog owner.

Was this article published here with the expectation of vociferous condemnations of this kind of animal abuse and the lively discourse that is bound to ensue? Hell yes!

I'm with you, Karen. I hope he gets the maximum penalty possible.

It's been proven over and over again that you don't need to use force to train animals. But don't just take my word for it, read "Don't Shoot the Dog," by Karen Pryor.

I've gotten remarkable results with my neighbor's dogs with giant dog cookies. They don't bark at me anymore. They just want to lick me to death.

Please let me vociferously condemn, please!!!

What an evil piece of work. A cattle prod is too good for him.

The death penalty would be too good for this man. But the real scandal, of course, is not the extreme case but what is accepted as a matter of course. All dog training is abusive. Think about it. You put a choke collar on Rover and yank his leash whenever he doesn't do what you want him to do. Even more than physical pain, dog training humiliates dogs--indeed, that is its whole purpose, to instill in the dog a sense of being a follower rather than a leader. It is not moral to break a dog's natural born spirit to dominate, merely to satisfy our own need to domesticate. Anybody caught with a well behaved dog ought to be imprisoned.

If you think this is a ridiculous opinion, as I anticipate many of you will, think again. California just passed an animal rights law. In a few short years dog owners will occupy the same category as slave holders. Morally there is no difference.

According to Loy, while the the silky terrier did not stop biting, the animal admitted to being the 20th hijacker on 9-11. "Therefore, I feel that my methods are justified.", said Loy.

I second MellonBrush. This item is but a "circulation builder," as calculated in its way as anything I've ever seen (and eaten up, admittedly) in the NY Post.

But its actual news value verges on the meretricious. And no one's noticed that the original complaint was signed 10/29 or that a warrwant was issued 11/18? Oy, such timeliness!

I noticed the dates. I don't care. This item might be out dated and designed to increase hits but it is also news to too many people. Not all dog trainers use humane or even remotely reasonable methods and the more exposure this gets, like dog fighting, the better as far as I'm concerned.

And puppy mills. This is the season people buy dogs from pet stores.

Cathar you Turd, on what grounds do you base your comment "its actual news value verges on the meretricious". This story involves a MONTCLAIR RESIDENT -- who, so far police have not idenitified. Have you seen this item posted elsewhere? Could it be that you get pissed off when the Baristanet breaks some news? Or are you just in favor or giving a dog a good beating as a way to train them?

In all fairness, I'm sure there are some good trainers, and I hope this doesn't give all of them a bad name. But the bad ones do need to be weeded out.

The $1,000 per session pricetag would have sent up a red flag to me.

I trained my dog with treats. He will do anything for bacon.

jg,

So will I!!

I will

Rake leaves
Shovel snow
Do laundry
Wash Dishes
Give back and foot massage
Sing Yankee Doodle

for bacon.

I'll take the foot massage. I use the Niman no nitrate salt cured hand rubbed center cut variety.

Did anyone see this beautiful sight last night?

It blew me away! I took a couple of photos but not sure if they are any good.

MB,

I did see that last night when leaving work. Thank you for providing the link as I was unsure what planets were near the moon.

I have bacon and I've got some chores that need doin'.

I wish I had a cattle prod to stick up Loy's ass.

Best photo ever!

MB: Would a "Good Doggie!" do?

MM:

Good Doggies stay off the dining room table when there is Guacamole and shredded cheddar up there for the tacos!

I caught Burt sucking down these two items many years ago. He knew he was a bad doggie but couldn't help himself.

He once at an entire Godiva Easter bunny, foil and all. Good Lord, I still don't know how he ate the whole thing and didn't wind up sick - as a dog.

Yeah, chocolate and tin foil, bad combo for doggies.

He was highly recommended to us and we were very disappointed. He did however leave us with this plastic whip and slingshot so that we could discipline the dog. The slingshot was for the deer. They were never used on animals -- but I have a good idea who I should use them on.

So you're catching that stench from Clifton too, eh Church Streeter?

Don't let him bug you though. Some folks have nothing better to do with their time than piss and moan about the newsworthiness of articles that get posted on a private website. Kind of sad really but a great example of irony for the rest of us to chuckle at.

So slingshots and whips are part of this guy's regular repertoire for training dogs with behavioral problems?

I don't even know what to say. I feel so sorry for the people who've paid so much money to this bastard to try to get help for their dogs, and of course for the dogs themselves. It defies simple common sense that these methods could work for dogs that have fear and/or aggression problems.

I too would like to take that pipe to this guy's head and see how he likes it.

On another note, I gave my dear boyfriend a nice organic dark chocolate bar for his birthday over the weekend... he ate a little corner of it, re-wrapped it, and left it on the dining room table while we went for a run.

When we got back, the chocolate was all gone, but the wrapper and foil were intact in a neat little pile on the floor. My pug/peke may be a glutton, but he's good at unwrapping things!

(I got my guy another chocolate bar.)

Also, I occasionally give my 3 pups frozen treats in the summer--yogurt, banana, and peanut butter mixed together in little dixie cups.

The last time, I gave one to each and they happily went off to their respective corners to eat their treats. Percy the glutton snarfed his up first and sniffed around hoping for more... which he got when my other little dog got full and left half of hers. A couple of minutes later I looked down at him working on the rest of her snack, and saw that he was trembling all over (from the cold of eating all that frozen yogurt)--yet he was still enthusiastically slurping away, lowered core temperature be damned. He's nothing if not committed...

Watch the chocolate around the dogs, seriously. It can be toxic to them, esp. smaller breeds.

I know, MM--I always try to avoid it; my guy just forgot to put it away in a cabinet this time.

Luckily, my little snarfer suffered no visible ill effects (except that he was running around like a hyper maniac all afternoon).

In 1977, my cat, Roderick Dhu('the black'), ate nearly an entire oz. of weed.

Somehow the little bastard got his sneaky little paw inside my top dresser drawer and proceeded to go to town on it.

When I swept up what was left, I had accounted for maybe 1/4 of what was originally in the baggie.

He seemed a little freaked out for a few hours but after that he was his same old self.

MB, that gave me a good laugh (especially since the kitty was OK)--I wish I could've seen the look on your face when you saw the bag.

Maybe to them it doesn't smell so different from catnip?

Mellon, I hope he saved some of his catnip for you.

mb I've heard of that happening but I never believed it. He must have had some serious kitty munchies after that. You're lucky he didn't aquire a taste for it. But I imagine you found a more cat-proof location after that. Hysterical!

I'd like an opportunity to "reeducate" this bad guy myself.

Church Streeter, if you want to be gulled by very bad "journalism," be my guest. I don't recall anything, however, indicating that Loy himself was a Montclair resident. So before you opine on journalism, you might want to first spiff up your reading comprehension skills.

Dannyboor, do you even know anything about journalism? Or is this merely another occasion allowing you to attempt to preen?

I know Jeff.

He's a serious professional, with long experience and a pretty good track record working with animals with behavior problems.

(And, as the previous poster points out, NOT Montclair resident).

I don't think it's unusual practice that, in training a dog, it's important to let the dog know that the human is the dominant in the pack.

And so I've seen Jeff gently but firmly put an animal in its place -- not by kicking; by firm hand movements and yes, maybe throwing a ball of paper gently at its nose.

Jeff has has that the hard part of his work is not training the animal, but training the human -- that if, one's he (Jeff) is gone, the human reverts to allowing the pet to think it's the "alpha," the pet will never get trained.

"Slingshots and whips" -- taken out of the context of the work sounds bad, but have you ever heard of using a water pistol to keep a cat from eating your house plants? Same principle.

People seem to enjoy working themselves up into a frenzy when they have the opportunity to villify someone based on something they've heard on the news.

It's never a good idea to base one's opinion on hearing only one side of the story.

My final pint -- that's a darn bad photo of Jeff, probably chosen to make him look as scary, mean and evil as possible.

He's usually smiling and affable.

Beating a dog with a pipe and fists with enough force to cause injuries is abusive. Period. I don't care how smiling and affable the person might be. Then there is the cattle prod meant to be used on a 200 lb animal. Even the most aggressive dogs can be rehabilitated without being severely beaten and shocked. The question is not whether or not his methods are effective, but whether or not they are inhumane and constitute undue cruelty. Sorry, Lizzz, this guy should not ever be allowed near any animal with or without a slingshot.

I'm with ChurchStreeter and Dannyboo. It appears that a certain someone's qualifications to expound on good vs. bad journalism are about equal to my qualifications to expound on nuclear physics (slim to none).

Anyhow, this execrable jerk Jeff Loy might just have some microscopic amount of social utility left in him. Perhaps he could be the one hired to "waterboard" George Bush to help the latter decide whather or not the practice amounts to torture.

You are basing your opinion about this man, Jeff Loy, on one story in a newspaper -- and the story itself was brought about by a civil lawsuit, always a he said/she said proposition.

I am basing my opinion on personal knowledge.

In other words, you are choosing to believe (emphasis onn "choosing to believe") something based on only partial facts.

You have read one story, and you choose to believe that Jeff Loy is an abuser of animals.

As I said in my previous posting, people seem to like to have someone to villify.

I am not going to sit back and let people slander someone I know to be honest and honorable.

Don't apologize to me.

Apologize to Jeff for accusing him of inhumane animal treatment.

You're right lizzzzz. I suppose it's possible he could have had the cattle prod hanging around the house just for fun.

Lizzz, I've had a number of dogs in my lifetime, and never have I known anyone to employ anything close to this type of methodology. Usually nothing more than a word, eye contact and rote training, rarely even an electronic collar, set on the absolute minimum is necessary, but I guess your friend thought his methods were quick and cost effective. In terms of the pending civil suit against him, I'm not surprised. had he done this to one of my cherished animals, the civil suit would've been the very least of his substantial worries.

""Slingshots and whips" -- taken out of the context of the work sounds bad, but have you ever heard of using a water pistol to keep a cat from eating your house plants? Same principle."

No, it is not the same principle. A water pistol doesn't leave welts and can't cause any real injury. It's disturbing that you even made that comparison.

I repeat that you're all basing what you believe about Jeff Loy and his methods on an article that may not present all sides of the story, let alone the complete facts.

Jeff is an animal lover. That is not synonymous with animal anthropomorphiser -- as many of his critics seem to be.

Butou've made up your minds BASED ON ONE ARTICLE, and I suspect that any argument I could make wouldn't change the opinion you've formed BASED ON ONE ARTICLE: Jeff is an "execrable jerk," he should be locked up... he leaves welts on animals, etc. etc.

I call this type of thing "internet lynching" and it's so easy to do in the anonymous blogosphere.

A thread I'd like to start is "Discuss the tendency of people to read something, believe it, and then continue to believe it even if there are facts proving it false."

If dozens of people came forward with evidence that Jeff is not an animal abuser, would you still villify him based on this article?

Or how about this... can we start new thread and change the topic to "innocent until proven guilty?"

Lizzzz: The animals don't have a voice and can't speak for themsleves about the atrocities. Too bad.

That being said, a Montclair resident (and others) had a problem with Jeff apparently. Bad enough to press charges.

Expert, schmexpert. I've read enough books about animal training, have met several trainers and I've come to the conclusion that is absolutely not necessary to use such forceful methods as described in the article in order to train a dog or any animal.

Years ago my sister in law's family had a giant doberman which was uncontrollable. This dog was huge, I mean gigantic, biggest dobe I've ever seen. Everybody was afraid of him and he ruled the roost.

They brought in a trainer to work with the animal and asked if they could participate in the training. He said "Absolutely not". He also would not discuss his training methods with them either.

The trainer took the dog for a couple of weeks and brought it back to the family. He 'transferred' his authority to the family and from that time on the dog was a cupcake. I saw the before and after versions of this animal and can tell you that whatever the trainer did worked.

I have a feeling that the reason he didn't want the family to witness the training was (1) proprietory methods (2) perhaps the training could be considered harsh.

I'm still amazed at the results they achieved with this guy.

And I call using a cattle prod on a terrier animal abuse. I also think to threaten a couple with having their animal put to sleep when they wanted to stop using his methods as its own perverse power play. But tell us more Lizzz about how whips and cattle prods are acceptable to use on 15 lbs animals. Wow, what Santa must be bringing to your house for the kiddies....again your post has disturbed me more then this article.

OK, I wasn't going to post again but I've had a few calls from friends and would like to present some information.

1) Re: the person so disturbed about "whips and cattle prods" - note it is all alleged information-- the items are ALLEGEDLY tied to Jeff, and there is no information IF OR HOW they were used in his training.

You may be filling in the blanks in your mind, but NO FACTS were presented. So therefore your beliefs about Jeff are merely that: beliefs.

Again "innocent until proven guilty."

2) Here is testimony from a friend who said I could post it here as one example of the "other side" that is missing from the original article and the subsequent postings:

"We actually first met Jeff when he took care of one of our cats.

Shortly after we moved in, way back in 1984, one of our two cats decided she *needed* to kill our other cat. We could not leave them in a room together.

As soon as they were together, the dominant cat attacked the weaker one. This happened after they'd happily co-existed for 9 or 10 years.

The vet had no clue what to do and suggested we contact Jeff.

Jeff was definitely firm with the offending cat, but at no point did he harm the cat or do anything crazy such as is alleged in this article. In three or four visits he was able to get the dominant cat to back off.

Could someone looking in have considered the training 'rough?' I suppose so. Did
it harm our cat? Absolutely not.

If Jeff hadn't rescued our cat, we would have had to put her down.

Instead we had her and our other cat for another 8 1/2 years."

I have 3 dogs, none wear collars in the house, so that they do not get caught on anything.

Also, food/treat training is okay, but what if you need them to listen/respond, and you have no food.

My dogs are not perfect, but they know the boundaries. It's not about domesticating, so much as is it about co-habitating, whether in the wild, or in the home.

You have to establish what is acceptable, and what is not, without taking the canine out of the dog.

My rottweiler still tries to convince you that there is something so urgent that requires you to immediately come and look out the door/window.

This technique (conveniently) happens to be used when I happen to be cooking or eating.

My boyfriend warns that he's just creating a diversion so that he can access the food when I step away!

Do you think he is trying to TRAIN me???

Seriously - I wouldn't change it for the world - a dog who knows that that meat is so wonderfully smelling that he's willing to scam me into thinking that I have to leave it NOW so that I can tend to the urgent matter at hand! I just shove what I'm working with into the oven or microwave, and run to the door and he looks ever-so disappointed that his training method failed.

I pet him ferociously and we just roll together laughing/snorting!

Not such a horrible way to 'train' each other.

Oh, and don't get me started with my pitt/shep mix!

She will sit by my daughter while she eats to ensure that noone (the other dogs) will be a threat to my daughter and her food.

There was a time when my daughter left uneaten food in a lunch box, inside of her bookbag and we ran out of the house on errands. When I came home, I noticed that my pitt/shep was sitting close to the bookbag, and had her head ducked, but everytime my other dog tried to walk by that area, she snarled.

I immediately repremanded her (verbally only) - she needed to know that that was not acceptable behavior - especially since she was the newer dog in the house.

That didn't matter to her. Dominance was her thing. And she had a job to do. I just didn't know it at the time.

After about an hour, I noticed she hadn't moved, and I finally checked the bookbag finding the uneaten food.

Clearly she did not want to steal the food, but she was at work to make certain that noone was going to get to that food but my daughter (or me)...

If I leave my keys on the table, she will pick them up and hold them with her on the couch or in her bed until I return to the room, just to be sure noone takes my property.

Better than any alarm system out there!

I find the psychology of dogs fascinating, blfldgirl!

The common denominator in all of this is to remember that dogs are pack animals and packs have leaders. If the human(s) in the household refuse to step up to the plate and assume the role of leader, the dog will take over. And, depending on the breed as well, this often leads to a chaotic relationship. Most trainers will work with the owner and the dog to transfer the leadership role to the human host.

I am the Alpha Female in my houshold and am responsible for discipline.

The canine members of our household hold the Alpha male to be the pack leader and look to him for decisions and leadership.

The fact that I take over and make decisions does not confuse them- they look to him and then take my direction.

Of course our feline population finds this to be amusing.

I have two cats that come whenever I call them. One of them, Tiger, I can summon mentally, I shit thee not.

As it happens, yesterday was the one-year anniversary of my decision to euthanize the master of our pack as he succumbed to cancer.

So I must post a tribute to him, as well....

This shep/akita was the master of the universe (ours - at least) and everyone knew it.

But he never once would flaunt it.

My rottweiler took great pleasure in testing this power daily.

The newspaper would be on the dining room table waiting for me to read it during my morning alone time. While preparing breakfast, the shep/akita would sit in his usual place, between the dining room and living room, blocking the walkway with his 100 pound long and lean body.

Noone paid any mind to him - they simply walked over him or squeezed around him. What would he do - he's not a mean attack dog!

As the rottweiler would sneak past him and look at the dining room table and back again at the shep/akita, The shep/akita would be alerted that mischief was about to occur.

The rottweiler slowly approached the dining room table, closest to the edge where the newspaper sat. And with his tall 100 pound body and huge head, he would place his head sideways on the table to gently slide the paper into his massive snout.

The shep/akita was taken aback! No, that's not yours! You know you are not supposed to take that - or anything off the table, for that matter!

The rottweiler would walk passed him with victory in his eyes and glanced his way as if to say "and? are you going to do anything about it?" The shep/akita looked at me to confirm that he could act on this - after all what is the world coming to if we can't respect our boundaries!

I would nod and he would lunge after the rottweiler. They would stand on their hind legs, roll on the floor, paw each other, and play tug of war.

The shep/akita made certain to accentuate this 'TRAINING' method by lifting his head high, and pressing his neck and against the rottweiler's body and growled ferociously to be certain that the vibrations travelled deep thru the rottweiler so he knew he clearly stepped over the line!

And they would tear my newspaper apart - unless I was lucky enough to catch it in the early stages and demand them to drop it!

All in an effort of discipline!

That is the way of the world.

I don't train dogs. They train each other. I train the humans to let their pets remain dogs.

It's a beautiful experience when it flows as nature intends.

LOL...yes, I should add that a feline's response to all this is, "So where's my dinner?"

HIDING -

totally agree. the cats just sit at the top of the stairs and look on as if to say " do they think this makes them look cute? I don't have to do anything and I still look better than they do!"

lizzzz

I have no idea if this guy is a saint or a demon.

I can imagine having a cattle prod around if for protection only.

But I can say with authority that no amount of logic or caution in making premature judgements will work here on Baristanet. It's just not the Baristanet way. The denizens herein look for any opening to feel morally superior and condemn "villains".

It's Deb's journalistic "formula".

It will be 11 years on December 22 that we lost our last dog, Burt. He was a little mischief maker at times and had acute 'separation anxiety' but we loved him with all our heart and losing him was a blow that sent me reeling for several weeks.

If I ever become an actor and need to play a scene that requires tears, all I need to do is remember his last moments at the vet when my dear wife held him out to me and said "Here, you hold him for a while".

Oh boy..

Thanks, Right of Center, for the perspective.

It's the way of the wild wild interweb.

I am deeply saddened to hear that a trainer is using and an owner is allowing abusive techniques to be used against their dog. Thankfully, there are humane ways to modify behavior. There are many trainers, veterinary behaviorists and behaviorists that have studied dog behavior for many years, and have worked with countless dogs in every situation (myself included). Many specialize in reactive dogs and never use aggression to 'cure' aggression. They work on proven theory and practice of their craft. Choke collars, alpha rolls, stare downs, and the stated abusive techniques...why use these methods when there are humane ways to work with your dog based on behavioral methodology that does not hurt your dog or your relationship with him? Positive reinforcement training means the focus is on rewarding good behavior, not on punishing misbehavior. We want to condition the behaviors that are appropriate. In focusing on praising the appropriate behaviors, we are conditioning those responses as opposed to the unwanted behaviors. If you focus on the unwanted behaviors, you are actually conditioning the behaviors that you want to expire. We use counter conditioning, redirection, desensitization and other humane techniques to modify the dog's and the owners behavior. Defining everything through the alpha pack order is an antiquated approach to living with and training dogs. There is so much wonderful reading material to help owners understand their dogs psychology better: Karen Pryor's classic book 'Don't Shoot the Dog, anything by Ian Dunbar, Jean Donaldson's 'Culture Clash', Patricia McConnell "The Other End of the Leash', and Suzanne Clothier "When Bones Fall From the Sky' are all wonderful books that will help dog owners to understand the dog/human bond and how to understand how the canine mind works.

Joana Watsky njsitnstay.com

might as well make a little money, eh Joana?

nicely done.

That guy was no "Dog Whisperer".

Don't worry, Joanna. For some reason, ROC seems to think that everything is about money.

Based on my experience with trainers and getting good results with my own dogs, I agree with everything you say.

Lizzzz, thanks for sharing another perspective on this guy. I have been aware, however, of other cases investigated by Al Peterson and I found him to be a thorough investigator who would not press charges unless the evidence was there. His involvement in this makes me very suspect about this guy.

And you always know it going to way expensive when you have to contact them for pricing, right Joana?
All you really need is a rolled up newspaper, and if you know what you're doing, maybe use it three times without ever touching the dog. You need love and firm limits on bad behavior, not therapy or abuse.
Psychobabble or a professional nazi are just a waste of thousands of dollars. The problem is people who buy into the crap rather than methods that have domesticated the animals for thousands of years.
For those of you that buy into animal therapy and rights, I've got the patent on the square wheel, not to mention the next better way to sit (what a chair), if you want to make an investment.

Well of course you'd "stand" proudly alongside dannyboor and Church Streeter, wacourson. There should be no doubt about that one. But as it happens, I am at least somewhat qualified to comment about journalism, and certainly far more than you three put together. And this item was a badly put together one, the non-timeliness of which suggests a scramble on a slow news day. You may all now go back to your contemplation of nuclear physics or, in your specific case, dannyboor, race relations and ethnography.

As for lizzzz (enough zed's for ya?), the idea that someone would seriously hire someone else to, ah, "train" their cat or cats is quite amusing. Funny to imagine, sure, you betcha, but bearing little or no relation to genuine feline nature. And you paid for such services? Honestly, even our cats are laughing internally at your fiscal imprudence (though they wouldn't care to admit or show it).

Per my posting, it wasn't ME who had the cat problem -- it was a friend.

And if you read the posting more carefully, you will read that this person would have had to put their cat to sleep if they hadn't found someone who could train it. And the person they found was recommended by their vet.

Lots of people blogging here seem to have pets that are well behaved and play nicely with others. Good for you. I've had pets that I've loved.

But some people have problem animals that require intervention.

I anticipate that use of the word "intervention" will invite all sorts of outrage and comparison to things like electroshock therapy (by the way, recently shown to be efffective in some cases of depression). Bring it on.

But I'll state my underlying premis once again: people posting here have decide to believe something about someone based on a limited set of facts, and contrary facts won't change their mind.

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs -- some people have decided to believe that the Holocaust doesn't exist.

(C'mon! Gimme some outrage here! I compared believing that a dog-trainer is abusive to believing that the Holocaust didn't happen! Disturbing, istn't it?)

And I'll say it one more time:

I, and many people of my acquaintance, know Jeff Loy. We know that he is a true animal lover and not an animal abuser.

I invite you to be disturbed and deeply saddened at this posting.

I guess I must be some kind of monster, just like Jeff.

Lizzz, while I still think your friend (okay, got it right here!) was pretty darn silly in actually hiring someone to work with her (did I get the gender right this time?) cats, I'm also quite aware of the "need" here to outrageously contort the thrust of assorted items in order to generate posts (and thus hits for the benefit of advertisers). This should not come as a major surprise to you, either, if you've been reading this site for at least a month.

As for your raising the issue of the Holocaust by way of comparison, while I find that unfortunate and strained in the extreme, it's also no more hard-core foolish than much of the dumbness that already passesfor commentary here. (A certain little laserguy immediately comes to mind, along with many others....)

So post on and in whatever vein you choose! I certainly have not in my mind yet joined the virtual lynch mob that's formed against Jeff Loy. I just think he looks like Pete Carroll's long-lost twin (if you know who Pete Carroll is, and I very much doubt you do).

Ha Ha, you're right, he does look like Pete Carroll.

Although you're also right, I did have to Google Pete Carroll... I follow baseball but think that football is the work of the devil...

Holocaust comparison strained? NOOoooo, impossible (drat, is there an emoticon for "sarcasm?" Is there an emoticon for

"I realize this statement is really absurd, but I'm going to say it just to see who I can goad into responding?").

No, I don't know much about how Baristanet gets advertisers, or revenue -- although I've come to the suspicion that certain posts are from plants whose job is to goad people into continuing to respond. Maybe you're even one of them. If so, I've taken the bait.

Blogs piss me off, usually sooner than later, so I don't lurk for long.

By the way, my friend -- the one who was silly enough to spend a whopping $180 to save her cat-- has been particularly amused by your comments, Cathar.

(Is that your religious persuasion?)

She's also so silly that she was been able to retire before the age of 55, darn her!

Now, where did I put the emoticon that means, "I put that in because I realize, just as people on these blogs are willing to lynch Jeff Loy, they're also happy to make judgments about the relative silliness of another person, when they really don't know anything about the other person at all, except that they maybe she hired an animal behaviorist so she wouldn't have to put their cat to sleep."

Man oh man, I'm getting carried away... this is strangely compelling...maybe I'm getting hooked...

Wait, I forgot to say -- she's not the cat person. It was her HUSBAND's cat that needed shrinking.

Have I flogged this topic with... a dead cat yet?

I, too, had to Google Pete Carroll, but I do see the resemblance.

I assure thee, lizzz, that even if there are "plants" here occasionally (which I very much doubt, the real reason for the attitudinal situation hereabouts is simply more than a soupcon of area self-righteousness over almost any topic), I'm never one of them. As I'm sure the head Barista herself would freely attest.

I also even knew you were being sarcastic with your reference to the Holocaust, fancy that.

And I can only exhort you to continue posting here. Even if you mistakenly see football as something created in the workshops of hell. (No, low-scoring soccer was forged there, especially the one goal Premier League sort of games the best teams play. Perhaps "Ultimate Frisbee" was too.)

And my posting name, lizzz, has nothing to do with religion. It is in fact first and foremost a sort of medieval German term for...wait for it, babe!...a cat lover. Golly gee, the syncrhonicity of it all! We have several, all of whom have given us millions of dollars in amusement and (quondam, anyway) affection. None of whom I'd still ever spend money on re their emotional and relationship issues, however.

I too also envy your friend her early retirement, can only hope as well that the current economy hasn't forced her back out on the hustings.

You can all feel good about that cuddly pup you trained with kind words and a rolled up newspaper. Jeff Loy has saved the lives of hundreds and hundreds of dogs that were destined to be euthanized for habitually biting people.

That inaccurate figure of a thousand bucks you?re making fun of? Jeff does charge more because he is brought in after other ?positive reinforcement? trainers have already tried and failed to stop Rover from tearing the flesh off their children or their neighbors. Jeff has a long history of saving beloved family pets who have ?turned bad? and after ?kinder? trainers have failed and the dog is about to be put down.

Jeff does not injure animals. He dominates biting dogs and then he teaches families how to use tools to dominate very fast animals with very powerful jaws. He teaches families how to use these tools WITHOUT CAUSING INJURY. KatebirdRex can beat Jeff all she wants with that pipe. It?s plastic, it makes a huge noise, it won?t hurt and Jeff won?t be scared. He?s spent his day rehabilitating attacking dogs that cause real pain.

I once saw him train a feral indoor cat that our local cat lady swore had to be euthanized. Nobody could get close to it without getting scratched. After a 12-hour day of saving animals professionally, Jeff stopped over to save one more animal. For free, I might add. This man loves all animals. He explained the session would look scary, but he would not hurt the cat. The session looked scary and HE DID NOT HURT THE CAT ONE BIT. Twenty minutes after he started, we were petting this cat and it was purring back at us.

What I saw in person I considered miraculous. It confirmed in my mind the many other miracles I have heard about Loy saving animals that others trainers had given up on. I have raised five kids and six dogs without raising a hand in anger. I have also working in the criminal justice system. I would never support anyone who abused animals, but I also realize some behavior takes tougher means counter.

I am deeply disturbed that partial truths have been used to slander a wonderful man who is dedicated to protecting all animals. And I am deeply disturbed by the number of dogs that will be euthanized if this trainer of last resort is not exonerated.

You're making sense to me Spark.