52 Comments

1. POSTED BY Rob  |  August 24, 2009 @ 5:13 pm

   ILWTTIG
2. POSTED BY Right of Center™  |  August 24, 2009 @ 5:33 pm

   “$50,000 in energy savings”
   Excluding the cost of the lamp, of course.
   “544.5 tons CO2 emissions prevented of entering the environment”
   I’d like to know how that was calculated. In New Jersey it’s about 1 lb of carbon per KWH (kilowatt hour)
   http://www.watt-minder.com/glob-carbon.html
   The residential rate is about $.13/kwh
   so $50,000 “saved” is 384,615 kwh and 384,615 lbs of carbon. Which is 192 tons NOT 544.
   According to these greenies an average car produces 6 tons per year of carbon. Which is 32 cars not 94.
3. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  August 24, 2009 @ 5:38 pm

   so ROC, since you love your tungsten filament incandescent bulbs so much, why not become a docent at the Edison Museum in West Orange? You’ll be right at home there with all novel ideas (like the filament bulb) that are now over 100 years old.
4. POSTED BY Right of Center™  |  August 24, 2009 @ 5:38 pm

   “…these greenies (http://planetgreen.discovery.com/games-quizzes/co2-emissions-quiz/)…”
5. POSTED BY Right of Center™  |  August 24, 2009 @ 5:42 pm

   “You’ll be right at home there with all novel ideas (like the filament bulb) that are now over 100 years old.”
   probably 90% of our daily lives are based on technology over 100 years old. So Im not sure of your point.
   Nails are a few thousand years old. I trust you don’t live in a lean-to.
6. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  August 24, 2009 @ 5:45 pm

   You might like my lean-to. Problem is, it doesn’t lean to the right.
7. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  August 24, 2009 @ 5:46 pm

   Actually, ROC, nails became popular when timber framing became too expensive. That was a whole lot less than 1000 years ago.
8. POSTED BY Right of Center™  |  August 24, 2009 @ 5:52 pm

   http://www.fourshee.com/history_of_nails.htm
9. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  August 24, 2009 @ 5:58 pm

   Thanks for the link, ROC, but I was really thinking of nails more as a wood fastener than a death weapon.
10. POSTED BY Right of Center™  |  August 24, 2009 @ 6:05 pm

    No problem. I totally get it. It’s like you think of personal choices (like lightbulb) more as a matter for the state to decide rather than lowly individuals.
11. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  August 24, 2009 @ 6:41 pm

    Whatever you say, ROC, but this lowly individual has a house full of compact flourescent bulbs, featuring the new warmer spectra.
    We enjoy their warm glow, the far fewer times we need to change the burnt out old style ones, and the lower monthly energy costs.
12. POSTED BY profwilliams  |  August 24, 2009 @ 7:18 pm

    Are they going to give out the HAZMAT uniform needed for cleaning up a broken CFL and all its toxic glory?
    I’m switching back because CFL’s are DANGEROUS!!!
    So do you want to die of mercury poison (however small the possibility) or global warming?
    I’ll take my chances with global warming.
13. POSTED BY Mrs. Martta  |  August 24, 2009 @ 7:30 pm

    I, too will stick with my 100-year-old technology bulbs. They yield more light, you don’t need a Hazmat suit to dispose of them, and they cost less in the long run.
14. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  August 24, 2009 @ 7:41 pm

    Prof, what do you do at the university, since it is laden with flourescent lamps? And Mrs. Martta, do you and the Prof avoid all public buildings?
15. POSTED BY profwilliams  |  August 24, 2009 @ 8:49 pm

    Spiro,
    Unlike my home, I have no control over those places you list.
16. POSTED BY Pork Roll  |  August 24, 2009 @ 8:54 pm

    It’s like you think of personal choices (like lightbulb) more as a matter for the state to decide rather than lowly individuals.
    In this case I do, since “the state” will need to respond to the consequences of global climate change and greater competition for increasingly more scarce traditional energy resources over time. “Lowly individuals”, by choosing incandescent bulbs, are making choices that may yield the greatest benefit to themselves as individuals in the short term (cheap bright lighting), but that collectively expose the country to greater risks down the road (economic and social disruption from climate change, energy shortages, and energy price spikes).
    In other words, it’s not all about you (and your incandescent light bulbs).
    And prof, do you like seafood? If so, I think you should worry more about the mercury in your fish than in your CFL bulb. Really.
17. POSTED BY Mike91  |  August 24, 2009 @ 9:06 pm

    I’m switching back because CFL’s are DANGEROUS!!!
    A standard prof meme, and as predictably misinformed. Current CFL’s have less mercury than standard fluorescent, such as exist in perhaps, your bathroom vanity light.
    Of course, Prof, you also avoid thermometers of all types, including ones you put in your mouth?
18. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  August 24, 2009 @ 9:09 pm

    Porkroll, I meant to vote thumbs up but on my iPhone it’s easy to slip which is why you have another thumbs down. Sorry. I think your post is spot on.
19. POSTED BY Pork Roll  |  August 24, 2009 @ 9:19 pm

    That’s ok. I just voted thumbs up for myself. And I’ll come back a few times later and vote for myself again. (This IS New Jersey, after all.)
20. POSTED BY appletony  |  August 24, 2009 @ 9:36 pm

    I’m not at all sorry to hijack this tedious enviro-argumento-thread to share the first really good thing I’ve seen on twitter:
    Shit my dad says!
21. POSTED BY PAZ  |  August 24, 2009 @ 10:14 pm

    Ban CFL’s now! I’ll get my daily dose of Mercury from fish.
22. POSTED BY Pork Roll  |  August 24, 2009 @ 10:21 pm

    Good stuff, appletony. Almost makes me want to sign up for the Twitter myself so I can follow Justin’s tweets on his old man.
    Almost.
23. POSTED BY croiagusanam  |  August 24, 2009 @ 10:23 pm

    I loved that, appletony!
    Shite MY dad said:
    1. “If it was raining soup, you’d go out with a fork.”
    2. “Why not exhibit just an inkling of what I pay that tuition for?”
    3. “If the mountain won’t come to Mohammed, Mohammed will come to the mountain. My arse. There’s no feckin’ mountains in that sandy shithole.”
    4. “There’s two kinds of men wear pink shirts, boyo, and you’re no bullfighter.”
    That’s just a smattering of course, and with the new policy vis-a-vis appropriate language, most of the old man’s wit and wisdom would not make the grade.
    He’s dead a long time, but I miss him still.
24. POSTED BY TraitorJo  |  August 24, 2009 @ 10:25 pm

    I switched all my lights back to the bright lights of 60W bulbs. Now I say “let there be light!” I love it.
25. POSTED BY Pork Roll  |  August 24, 2009 @ 11:22 pm

    That’s just a smattering of course, and with the new policy vis-a-vis appropriate language, most of the old man’s wit and wisdom would not make the grade.
    And I think we are indeed deprived of some timeless wisdom for that.
26. POSTED BY HidingInBaristaville  |  August 25, 2009 @ 12:58 am

    The benefits associated with using compact fluorescent bulbs are hardly a secret. Each CFL uses about 75% less energy than an incandescent bulb, lasts longer, and saves about $30 over the course of its lifetime.
    For every benefit, though, it seems there is a compelling reason to avoid these energy efficient bulbs. In most circumstances, it’s simply a case of mispercentions blown out of proportion.
    Here are the facts behind three common myths:
    Myth: Compact fluorescent bulbs are a major safety hazard because they contain mercury.
    Fact: Yes, it’s true that CFLs contain tiny amounts of mercury, and if a bulb breaks you will be exposed to the neurotoxin. But, just how dangerous is a broken bulb? Researchers at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory set out to answer that question. They compared how much exposure you’d get from breathing in the amount of mercury released from a broken CFL bulb to how much mercury you’d take in from eating Albacore tuna.
    If you do a common sense job of cleaning up (open the windows, clean up, and remove the debris), then your mercury exposure would be the equivalent of taking a tiny nibble of tuna, according to Francis Rubinstein, a staff scientist at Berkeley Lab. What if you did the worst job possible, say closed all the doors and smashed the bulb with a hammer? It’s still no big deal, says Rubinstein, who points out that it would be the equivalent of eating one can of tuna.
    Myth: You don’t really save energy by using compact fluorescent bulbs because they take so much energy to make and ship.
    Fact: The amount of energy required to manufacture, transport, and dispose of an item is called “embodied energy.” For a CFL, the embodied energy is about 4% of the bulb’s total energy use, according to an essay published in LD+A, the magazine of the Illuminating Engineer Society, last December.
    The scientists found that it takes about 1 to 2 kilowatt-hours of energy to make and ship a compact fluorescent bulb (even those made in China), but it saves at least 200 kilowatt-hours of energy over its lifetime. At the typical price of electricity, it costs about 25 cents worth of energy to make a fluorescent bulb, a trivial amount when you consider the tens of dollars of electricity saved over the life of a CFL, says Rubinstein, who co-authored the essay.
    Myth: It’s not worth it to replace your incandescent bulbs with more energy efficient lighting because you’ll end up spending more on heating bills to make up for the lost heat thrown off by incandescent bulbs.
    Fact: It’s true that incandescent bulbs give off heat that can help to keep your home warm. But, Rubinstein points out that it’s only a tiny amount. There are a number of factors that can impact the amount of money and energy you save by switching to CFLs (or other more efficient lighting).
    If you live in a cold climate (in an insulated house), losing ambient heat from those old inefficient incandescent bulbs may increase your heating bill slightly, but you’ll save more on overall energy costs because of the electricity you’ll save on lighting. If you live in a warm climate, you might even rack up more savings since you won’t need to use as much air conditioning. Rubinstein’s bottom line: You’re almost always going to save money when you replace an incandescent with a CFL, but you may not save quite as much during the heating season in a cold climate.
    http://green.yahoo.com/blog/the_conscious_consumer/70/three-cfl-myths-busted.html
27. POSTED BY doyouhaveanygreypoupon  |  August 25, 2009 @ 1:01 am

    Of course, Prof, you also avoid thermometers of all types, including ones you put in your mouth?
    [portion of comment deleted]
    I love the Hazmat suite nonsense. More right-wing nutjobbery to go along with tea bagging, forged birth certificates, and health care death panels.
28. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  August 25, 2009 @ 6:24 am

    For a double dose, have dinner at a seafood restaurant lit with CFL’s.
29. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  August 25, 2009 @ 6:28 am

    …but you’ll need to break the CFL’s first.
30. POSTED BY Mrs. Martta  |  August 25, 2009 @ 7:29 am

    I just like being able to read without squinting, nothing political about that.
31. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  August 25, 2009 @ 8:16 am

    But you have me scratching my head, Mrs. Martta, since my wife and I read books under CFL’s all the time, at home. Or, she’ll prepare a dinner in the kitchen, and read a recipe under CFL’s. And then, when we go to the store, we read the price tags under CFL’s. Or, we may go to a restaurant, and read the menus under CFL’s – no problem in any of these scenarios.
    Perhaps the CFL you tried had a lower wattage that what was right for the task at hand, and no doubt you know they come in a variety of wattages. You’d have the same problem under incandescents, if the wattage was too low. Yet, CFL’s produce the same output as incandescents for far lower wattage.
32. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  August 25, 2009 @ 8:41 am

    CFL’s are more than bright enough for reading as long as the wattage is appropriate for that task.
33. POSTED BY profwilliams  |  August 25, 2009 @ 8:55 am

    As I sit in a house surrounded by these tiny nibbles of tuna you call CFL’s.
    I can’t help but laugh at how wee-weed up you guys get over someone’s (often exaggerated) individual choices.
    Jeez, who cares really?
    That said, just reading what you need to do to avoid the tiny nibble of tuna in a broken CFL sounds like a real pain in the ass.
    That alone is reason to reconsider. Who needs the hassle?
    But I use them where they’d be easily cleaned if broken.
    And who uses a mouth thermometer?
    That’s so 1964.
    You have to get an ear thermometer– safer, faster, better.
34. POSTED BY BitPusher  |  August 25, 2009 @ 9:00 am

    On Friday, September 18, the Montclair Society of Engineers will have a talk on
    “Renewable Energy Projects in NJ”
    given by George Dzurina of G-CREW LLC.
    http://www.gcrewllc.com/
    The talk will be at Union Congregational Church, Upper Montclair at 8:00, dessert at 7:30.
    Meetings of the MSE are free and open to the public.
    for more info email
    montclairengineer@yahoo.com
    goto
    http://www.montclairengineers.org
    call the MSE Hotline
    973-932-0MSE (0673)
    check the Baristanet Calender (will be posted soon).
    If you are unemployed, Mr. Dzurina will be teching courses on Green Engineering at Middlesex County College that can be paid for by the Workforce Investment Act (WIA). This program is currently under review by the North American Board of Certified Energy Professionals to recieve certification. For more info go to
    http://www.middlesexcc.edu/institute/control.cfm
35. POSTED BY PAZ  |  August 25, 2009 @ 10:48 am

    How much time do you lose in trying to dispose of a CFL?? You can’t put it in the garbage or recycling. You have to wait for a county reclaimation then take time off to wait in line to dispose…..What fun!
36. POSTED BY jerseygurl  |  August 25, 2009 @ 10:58 am

    Some people will always have an excuse for not doing something that could have real benefits if we all participated. There will always be those who drive the biggest car possible because it’s safest for themselves, water the lawn during a drought and use the most toxic pesticides, etc. When living on a crowded planet with limited resources, personal choice can have an impact beyond the person doing the choosing.
37. POSTED BY PAZ  |  August 25, 2009 @ 11:04 am

    JG…Too much of a generalization. CFL’s aren’t the answer just as Nuclear energy isn’t the answer to our energy woes.
38. POSTED BY Spiro T. Quayle  |  August 25, 2009 @ 11:15 am

    How much time do you lose in trying to dispose of a CFL?? You can’t put it in the garbage or recycling. You have to wait for a county reclaimation then take time off to wait in line to dispose…..What fun! – PAZ
    Good point, PAZ. Now I’m thinking i should never paint my house again – too much of a hassle to dispose of the cans. I think I’ll try out the chipped and faded look for a while.
39. POSTED BY hrhppg  |  August 25, 2009 @ 12:07 pm

    I’m love all the chatter about the toxins in the new bulbs, while there are way more toxins in the computers being used to make the chatter. If you don’t want to participate then don’t, but space ship earth is heating up. We can debate the causes but it is still heating up.
40. POSTED BY ScubaNJ  |  August 25, 2009 @ 1:17 pm

    I don’t buy into the whole global warming thing but why is everyone bashing a few young people who are trying to do what they feel is good for the community. Would you rather have them hitting people with baseball bats in montclair at 4 in the morning or perhaps breaking into your house? Cut them a break.
41. POSTED BY KatebirdRex  |  August 25, 2009 @ 1:24 pm

    ROC, haven’t you previously bragged on this board about having not 1, but THREE Hummers? Sorry; you just don’t have much cred with me when it comes to environmental stances.
    Too bad the folks who yowl the loudest about personal choice are often the ones who don’t use good judgment.
42. POSTED BY profwilliams  |  August 25, 2009 @ 1:50 pm

    Scuba,
    Is that really the choice here: “doing something good” or getting bashed over the head with a bat?
    I’ll say it again, I am always suspicious of “young people” (from affluent communities) doing “good.”
    Why? Because that “good” has a funny way of being topic number 1 on the ‘ol college letter…
    “… And I helped organize a switch to CFL’s in my town– we replaced over 1,000 light bulbs…”
    I much prefer the old ways where folks did “good” and didn’t worry about advertising it.
    But I recognize how times have changed so, I certainly support these young folks and wish them well!
43. POSTED BY doyouhaveanygreypoupon  |  August 25, 2009 @ 2:10 pm

    [portion of comment deleted]
    The Baristanet censor certainly is sensitive. Yet another of my posts gets partially deleted, this time because I made a harmless joke about someone using a rectal thermometer as opposed to an oral one.
    Seems the censor has one very far up their…oops.
44. POSTED BY State Street Pete  |  August 25, 2009 @ 2:23 pm

    Kate, ROC tells us often that he’s purchased carbon offsets for his Hummer, so that makes it all okay.
45. POSTED BY ScubaNJ  |  August 25, 2009 @ 2:51 pm

    “I’ll say it again, I am always suspicious of “young people” (from affluent communities) doing “good.”"
    Why Prof?
    “Why? Because that “good” has a funny way of being topic number 1 on the ‘ol college letter…
    ”
    Is that so bad?
46. POSTED BY profwilliams  |  August 25, 2009 @ 3:04 pm

    Yes. It is bad because it creates a sense that good only comes when you get something in return.
    Understand, I also hate mandatory community service that some schools have.
    Because it tends to compound the us vs. them or otherness of those being helped.
    And the feeling that I did my part after you participate in a (name your favorite thing) drive.
    I’d feel better about these kids if they did something that directly touched the lives of folks in their communities– like reading to old folks, teaching kids to swim, etc.
    But who cares??
    Let them do whatever they like and I in my usual cynical way, will find fault with it.
    Who cares what I think?
47. POSTED BY doyouhaveanygreypoupon  |  August 25, 2009 @ 7:59 pm

    Anyone claiming they can’t read by a compact fluorescent bulb needs to take off their Hazmat suit mask.
48. POSTED BY HidingInBaristaville  |  August 26, 2009 @ 3:58 am

    Hey PAZ,
    You don’t have to wait for the County’s Hazardous Waste Day – HOME DEPOT will take your spent CFL and dispose of it FOR FREE.
    ANY HOME DEPOT.
    It’s worth using a CFL for the energy savings…but of course there are also LED lights that are still very very expensive
    $39.99/Each
    Meet the light bulb of the future… a 6 watt high powered LED bulb last for 50,000 hours while providing you with a brilliant white light. Operates for only pennies a day Designed to replace your standard 25 and 40 watt bulbs throughout your house. Can not be used on a dimmer.
    * Uses 6 watts of energy
    * 220 lumens of light output
    * Warm white color
    * 50,000 hour lifetime
    * MFG Brand Name : Designers Edge
    * MFG Model # : L-611
    * MFG Part # : L-611
    http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5/R-100655286/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
49. POSTED BY Mrs. Martta  |  August 26, 2009 @ 7:28 am

    I much prefer the old ways where folks did “good” and didn’t worry about advertising it.
    Yes!
50. POSTED BY tudlow  |  August 26, 2009 @ 7:58 am

    prof -
    You just make no sense with your disdain against “affluent” kids volunteering and really, volunteering in general. I guess middle class and lower SES volunteering kids don’t get your goat. (Aren’t you the man who thinks he is exempt from volunteering because he pays a lot of taxes on his house? And don’t YOU like to advertise to people here that you are that good, low profile guy who removes people’s garbage cans from the street? Golly, you sound like such a warm and giving individual!)
    My children are growing up in a completely different environment than I did and when they are old enough, I will make them volunteer so that they don’t think everybody lives in a “palatial Upper Montclair estate”. What do you think will be instrumental in helping these young people who were born into privilege see that most are not? Or do you think that is not important because it creates this us and them attitude? Of course there are the haves and have-nots in this society and the disparity is ever growing–awareness of this is the first step I think. Who cares if they pad their application with it? They still did some good and the experience may have planted a seed so that they don’t become the self-centered, materialistic, pretentious prigs as adults that drive you crazy.
51. POSTED BY HidingInBaristaville  |  August 26, 2009 @ 10:52 am

    I don’t know where you get the information that Greener Bloomdield is made up of “affluent kids”.
    I was part of this project and there were a few kids (accompanied by an adult) all of us were adults and very much Bloomfield working class.
    Greener Bloomfield is “advertising” because we would like residents to sign our pledge to use a CFL. The pledge’s will be used to qualify for Sustainable Jersey certification.
    Here’s where to sign the Greener Bloomfield pledge
    http://greenerbloomfield.org/porchlight/porchlightpledge/
52. POSTED BY doyouhaveanygreypoupon  |  August 26, 2009 @ 11:59 am

    After 30 years of the Republican “Moral Majority” making heroes of corrupt souls like Oliver North, we may need to advertise and promote what is indeed goodness.

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