Council to Vote on Senior Center Tonight

All these bargains! They're just too good to pass up!

This is the rationale of a spendthrift. Why do you think there are cheap properties for sale, Joe? Perhaps because we're in the worst recession in a gazillion years, which has hit taxpayers hard? You remember those folks, don't you? The ones who pay the bills you run up?

Oh, what's the use. Jeesus, Mary and Joseph.

"This situation is similar to a homeowner being offered an adjoining lot which would have tremendous value to the homeowner by a neighbor who is selling their home. Even in a bad economy and even if the homeowner couldn't or shouldn't incur more debt, any smart homeowner would consider the cost, take inventory of their assets, and see if they have something or some things they would rather do without than pass on possibly a one-time opportunity to enhance their property."

Let's just take in the breathtaking stupidity of this "smart homeowner"

He "shouldn't incur more debt" but he should consider it anyway!

"Honey!, I know I just got laid-off but, you know, now is maybe the time to buy that boat I've always wanted? I do have more time to fish after all!"

So Hartnett, do we buy the building and shrink wrap it for 4 years? Where do we get the money for the staffing and operation of the new community center?

figure out how to say "no" in under 500 words Cary? I hope so.

If Hartnett would open his eyes he would see Montclair selling off part of their property to builders, not buying additional parcels. They can't afford the taxes on the land.
Paying the taxes on the additional land is something Hartnett doesn't consider any more than he considers the operating and maintenance costs we would have to pay for this facility.
By the way, I'm 63 and looking to leave Montclair because of the tax burden, not the lack of a Seniors program.

I already left Montclair because of the tax burden. The last thing I would have cared about is a senior center.

Give me a break, ROC. I've written volumes here, on the Watercooler, via email messages speaking of my opposition, i.e. "NO" vote on the Senior Center.

There has been no demonstrated need for it, no idea of how many people it would serve, no programming, no idea of cost for the programming, no study re. impact on other programs sponsored by other organizations in town, etc., etc.

Besides the existing Senior Care people aren't leaving until they find some place to move to. The Salvation Army solution didn't work out. Could be April or so.

Cary

Remind me again why Joe Hartnett township manager?

"Give me a break, ROC."

Looking for a "no" :

While I believe it is important to provide all of our residents with services, we have a special responsibility to our youngest children, teens, seniors and people with disabilities.
But even so I was taken by surprise by the insistence of some that "due to a fantastic opportunity" we had to immediately buy the Senior Care building for $3.5MM to use for a "rec center" for teens.

While I applaud the concerns of those supporting action now, understand that we, as a Council, have never put together a plan for a recreation center for youth, or a senior center for activities for older adults. We have never, as a Council, even considered whether there is a need in the community for such facilities beyond the services the community currently provides. We have done no research, no conferring with knowledgeable people in the community, no survey of existing facilities such as those of the Y, or the Board of Education, or the County.

So you can imagine my reaction when this project picked up momentum in a matter of days and now appears headed towards our buying the property.

I understand that many have "wanted'" such facilities for years. But it is my understanding that the commitment of Township funds requires, by law, public discussion. Notwithstanding the fact that we have already spent our capital budget for 2009 and there is no money left.

Aside from the law, prudent fiscal responsibility calls for plans, and budgets. And the topic certainly calls for a discussion of just how much should the town spend on such needs, in comparison to other needs.

Cary Africk

Or here:

http://www.northjersey.com/recreation/news/78391087.html

Baskerville was alone in her opposition to the grant application. The rest of the council voted in favor. Second Ward Councilman Cary Africk, who has expressed hesitancy about purchasing Senior Care, was absent from the meeting, but told The Times later that he would have voted against applying for the grant.

"hesitancy".

Or here:
http://www.montclairtimes.com/NC/0/3261.html

Yellow light for community center.

Second Ward Councilman Cary Africk aired similar concerns, suggesting in a Nov. 1 e-mail to Hartnett and the council that the municipality should hire a consultant to perform an assessment on whether Montclair needs a community center.

"yellow light"

"hire a consultant"

Not exactly Winston Churchill here.

I believe you are voting no Cary. But, just maybe, expressing your FIRM opinion in public places, might, you know, sway others from their "hesitancy" at "yellow lights".

Earth to Mr. Hartnett-

Perhaps you were too busy noodling your nonsensical homeowner/neighbor/parcel analogy to read the Sunday Star Ledger article that reported that home values in Montclair have plummeted 27% in the past year. Buckle your chin strap and get ready for a stampede of tax appeals. Where exactly will those 'lost' monies come from?

Stop entertaining frivolous ideas of ways to spend even more of MY money.

The difference between the fictional homeowner and the town is that the homeowner would get to recoup the cost of enhancing his property when selling. The homeowner would also not likely consider such an enhancement if he know his expenses were increasing but his income was decreasing.

The town does not plan to make this a real estate investment (it shouldn't be in the real estate speculation anyway) it plans on KEEPING the property and spending even more money to maintain and staff. It would make more sense to allow a not for profit to buy it and pay taxes to the town thereby decreasing the tax burden place on homeowners.

Seniors leave because they cannot afford to stay, not because there is no senior center. This building had already been a senior facility and failed.

And yes, I would like to hear Cary say "no", we should not go forward with this plan unless we can prove it will save the township money.

Not exactly Winston Churchill here.

Cary sure is a good sport for coming back here, time and again.

I don't know, Cary's opinion seems pretty cut and dried to me.

>>Re: NO PUBLIC DISCUSSION? $3.5 Million and how many salaries??????

I am disappointed that those who support this project have not chosen to
explain, in a public session, what this project is all about.

Since I don't support the project, I will make sure someone who does explains to
the community the logic/need/expense at the Council meeting, before the vote.

If there are people who want to be heard, you can come to the meeting and speak
at the public comment period, which is before the vote.

Perhaps I can get some of the written justification posted on the 'cooler before
then.

Cary Africk
2nd Ward Councilor

[Today is Tuesday, 12/8]

Montclair's Town Council voted to get rid of Joe Hartnett... before his contract was even finished!

Why would they ever decide to let this lame duck enter into any negotiations?!

It's my opinion,

Joe Hartnett works for Mayor Fraud, you should direct your questions to him. The Council can not direct Joe H to do anything!

In order to keep bad things from happening a politician needs to stand his ground. And "hesitancy" and "hiring consultants" and "I'll make sure the other side is heard" are not stands.

If Cary want's to limit his political input to protest votes of "no" this his option, but it's not going to get much done.

Politics is fear based. Sorry it just is. If other council members felt Cary might make a big stink, get press, and otherwise rile up the voters they'd be less likely to want the political trouble their 'yes' vote might bring.

It's how you "Sway" politicians - fear.

I will take your advice to heart, ROC.

We do not need this project for a senior center, youth center, or a center for disabled people.

I believe there are programs throughout the community that are doing these things now.

The more I listen to people in the community the more I realize how much is already being done.

We don't need it.

Clear enough for you ROC?

Now please let me move on. Let's turn our attention to other things. Oh, and by the way? tonight we are also voting on a bond issue to refund $1.6MM in tax appeals.

Joe H and certain members of the Council have their heads in the clouds. It's about TAXES, guys.

Everyone I know is looking at leaving Montclair after their kids graduate because it's so expensive. Anyone wealthy enough to retire here doesn't need a Town - funded senior center.

If there is a need, why doesn't the Town develop some programs with our local Churches?

Please...let's have some fiscal discipline. We already have a huge new school coming online, tax appeals, and pensions to pay for.

That is a lot better Cary. Good work.

I must have missed it somewhere here or in the last article about the Senior Center....why is it for sale in the first place? Didn't it open to great fanfare just a few years ago? What happened?

Gail,

I do not represent the Center, nor are any of my numbers "official." However, this is what I've been told, "unofficially." I welcome any corrections.

The revenue model for the Center forecasted many more seniors than are currently attending.

Although the break even point has been lowered, attendance is still insufficient.

The Center is WONDERFUL. The Staff is engaged, talented, and dedicated.

This is a sad situation, due to the deterioration of the economy.

I have been assured that the program will be relocated before the property is sold.

And, indeed, it did open to great fanfare not too long ago (five years?)

Cary Africk

Thanks for the info, Cary. That is a very sad story.

So, the existing center is being sold because enough seniors did not attend. Now the town is going to buy it because the seniors at the meeting last night expressed the need for a place to socialize. Now the town is going to buy and run a senior center and hope that.....what? Things will be different? Of course in a way they will be, since the taxpayers will now pay for it.

so what was the vote result?

What do you think, ROC? Cary posted on the 'cooler.

So, the existing Center is wonderful and it's gonna move to another location.

Then why do we need the town to open another center?

These people have their heads up their asses. Must be a nice view there- they can't see any of their neighbors who are HURTING financially.

dunno gurl. I was banned from there long ago and don't read anymore.

Anyone know the result of the vote?

For anyone with the stomach, here is the township manager's report regarding the possible senior center acquisition.

It all boils down to, "sure, we're in tough times, but we waste a bunch of money on other crap anyway and this is a rare opportunity, so we should do it."

I couldn't see all of the report, the last part was missing...? Including values (Dollars and cents!) and a REAL appraisal.

On first reading I was alarmed to see such things as threatening libraries, which are REAL community centers and educational treasures. Instead we would divert money for a "READING AREA" with a few books...? How many books, computers and other media are at the libraries we should be supporting? (It's massive!) Instead
it would be for "youths" to sit for 1 hour (sounds like detention to me) monitored by our full time activities instructors. It seems like if you could pry them out of their offices, they would be doing so many things I was getting dizzy reading it.

Funny I have always found the libraries to be the essence of a COMMUNITY CENTER. Everyone is welcome, all ages, (real mixing of generations, no difference whether you are rich, middle income, or working poor.

Ben Franklin and Carnegie would be turning over in their graves!

Following is what I posted on the Watercooler:

The Resolution permitting the Township Manager and Attorney to "negotiate" the
purchase of the property was passed last night.

Although the Manager and individual Councilors indicated passing this resolution
"just" gives us the power to "negotiate" but not "approve" the deal, it sure
sounds to me like people are determined to conclude the deal.

The Manager has indicated he will post today on the Town website the "study"
that he completed last night at 5PM. He says this study contains the operating
budget for the project.

I urge EVERYONE to review this document and draw your own conclusions.

Here's my impressions from the meeting:

I think the Senior Community was well spoken and well represented. At least a
dozen people spoke passionately in favor of the Town buying and running the
Center.

The group seems unworried about the financial implications. Once again I am
surprised that the Country's economic "pain" seems to have missed so much of
Montclair.

While I feel that the problems impacting Seniors are:

a) Affordable, safe, housing
b) Access to healthy food, including an ability to shop and prepare meals
c) Access to health care

none last night seemed to agree. "Socialization," the ability to dance, meet,
and play together in one central spot in Montclair was of paramount importance.

The Senior Center is seen as a "magic bullet" solving a myriad of problems
effecting Montclair. Primarily, it answers the question "where can teens go to
do something?" There has been a strong message of late that our Town has an
obligation to provide something for teens to do so that they can "stay out of
trouble."

Although there are existing programs throughout the Community, they are spread
out physically and sometimes require setup/takedown efforts. Sometimes space is
not readily available.

Repeatedly people characterized the potential purchase as a deal "impossible to
pass up" and "too good to ignore."

Several on Staff, as well as Councilors, indicated that the entire effort could
be "revenue neutral," i.e. cost the town "nothing." They indicated grants and
"donations" could achieve this.

Cary Africk
2nd Ward Councilor

1. The seniors already had a center, this same center, which is now available for lack of seniors. Where were these seniors when the current center announced it had to close for lack of seniors?

2. Perhaps teens do need a place. Couldn't the new school have a space set aside? What are we proposing here as a place for teens to hang out? We have Y, a skating Woodman Field, tennis courts, libraries - there must be indoor basketball courts somewhere in some of the schools. I would bet that a large number of the teens we are talking about would not be caught dead in a town recreation center. The kind of teens who get in "trouble" are not going to go to the senior center after school.

3. A community center is not a bad idea, but since we already have a $35mm price tag on a new school which is still being built, and since we will have operating expenses associated with that building, is there no space that could be set aside for "teens"? Wouldn't it be less expensive for the town to coordinate with some of the churches that have large spaces to perhaps set aside some times for things like dancing? Doesn't the Y already have some programs specifically for seniors? Doesn't the library already have programs for seniors? My mother in law lived in Bloomfield until very recently and the library had movie screenings for seniors.

It seems the town has any number of adequate spaces for teens and seniors and everything in between and perhaps just one salary, for one person to coordinate and work with existing organizations would be a smarter move.

The problem with the town council meetings is that those who can attend are the only ones who seem to be heard. For those of us who work in Manhattan, and often work late , we can only send emails and post here. The squeaky wheels win, and the rest of us pay for it. The council and manager have failed to explain how a building that has already failed as a senior center and has inadequate parking is a deal too good to pass up. It's a like a crazed shopaholic who can't pass up the Manolo Blahnik's because they are half price. So despite her $40,000 in credit card debt and inability to pay it off, she spends another $250 on a pair of shoes that are uncomfortable because they're too good a deal to pass up.

It's time to take away the credit cards and cut them up.

Jersey ....

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. But to clarify:

The existing Senior Care program is different from the programming being planned by the Town. Think "day camp" for the planned program. You know, lot's of socialization? Lot's of activities?

The Senior Care program was geared more to people needing attention from care-givers, rather than independent people who will come to "our" new center.

Last month I travelled to Teaneck for a meeting at their beautiful new Community Center. I was there on a Sunday. It was empty.

Our plan is to put together a center that will be "revenue neutral," i.e. cost the Town nothing. Last year I defended the Town Manager during budget talks saying he "wasn't a magician." Maybe he is.

jerseygurl, wonderful post.

One thread hidden in the Township Manager's "report" is the idea that the new rec center could also house some township staff -- Parks & Rec people, which might alleviate pressures to renovate the town hall or BUILD A NEW ONE.

The report is geared solely to advocate for purchasing the senior center. Like car sales, the thrust is to make you feel that these incremental costs are minimal by having you look only at the relative increase in payments -- shoot, it's only like $15.00* per taxpayer per year, they say -- without pointing out that it could also be phrased as "dear taxpayer, we are going to make you borrow money that will cost you $450 each to repay."

--------------
* - note: rough number, as several payment scenarios are presented (again, like the car buying process, once you're thinking only about the payments, they have won control of the process).

Aside from the absurdity of thinking that a $35mm purchase, along with operating costs, would be revenue neutral the manager has left out one HUGE factor here. If that building is sold as commercial space, the town can collect taxes on it. The Walnut Street area has been on an upswing and could certainly use some additional business space rather than a not for profit facility that will bring in people who will take up parking that does not exist and will not be the kind of clientele shopping for $4.00 loaves of bread or eating meals at upscale restaurants.

By purchasing this building rather than allowing a for profit business to purchase it, we pay for the building, we pay for the operating costs and we lose potential tax revenue. And Walnut Street gets bupkes - other than maybe some more parking problems. Lose -lose situation all the way around. And I guarantee that those seniors who were at the council meeting will not be showing up in droves for ballroom dancing and two step classes either.

In the meantime, I would like to keep my local library and my pool and my parks and my local train train stations all the walk to amenities for which I have paid dearly in both the cost of my home and my property taxes.

Baristafolks, one thing I don't understand is that after posting a story about the town council meeting and the vote on this senior center on Tuesday, there was no follow up story as to what transpired at the meeting and what the result of the vote was. On Wednesday, I see a story about some guy leaving the NYT, I minor apartment fire, and a large puddle on Godfrey Street. Wouldn't it have been a good idea to attend the meeting and report on the results in an article the next morning? Are you just waiting for the Montclair Times or Star Ledgar to come out so you can cut and paste the article? Come on, this is an important and newsworthy issue that should be reported on.

This whole thing makes me sick. Didn't anybody attend the meeting to speak against it? I just don't understand how the council could vote yes on yet another financial commitment in light of the economic situation. The report indeed sounds like advocacy--it will only cost the average taxpayer 10 dollars a year! It's the pitch of a con artist, or the rationalization of a compulsive shopper.

Some Montclair Seniors, who are able to afford to hang onto their homes, sell them to move to Crane's Mill in West Caldwell. Others that are still in town, or who have downsized to a neighboring less costly local situation, go to the Caldwell Community Center for Water Aerobics. It’s a very large, diverse and close knit group. My mother has been going for the last ten years. My grandmother resides at Brighton Gardens in West Orange, an assisted living structure. Other seniors that I know from Montclair have moved down south. The only few seniors who I know that still live in town are either in the Senior's Building on Orange Road, or have private coop apartments at the Rockcliffe. I don't know many who have stayed in their homes in town. It’s too expensive to do so especially if they have to pay for some kind of assistance.

To send a child to a financially aided daycare center in town, by regulation, one of the parents or guardians is required to have a job. Children of unemployed adults are not eligible to attend. This group within our community are the most in need to have a community center (if money has to be spent) because it seems to me that the seniors have already established themselves elsewhere.